Macintosh Moving to Intel Processors [Updated]

[daustin]

Jesus man, if you're still using OS9 Apps in '07, it's time to let go.

Where I work there are almost 30 computers and they are all running OS9 or earlier!! (Yes, there are some running OS8 and I believe even OS7!!!) Not every company (or home user for that matter) has the money to upgrade all the time. I'm sure my company bought most the computers they're using now new (some are used) and that they were a major investment that was intended to last for several years.

As a side note, anyone who thinks this is going to be an easy transition because of Rosetta is nuts. I'm sorry but I've heard old Steve-O say the line "It just works" too many times. (Keep in mind, I so love my iMac (it's a G4 GASP! You mean it still runs???)) Anyway, when I got my iMac with iDVD and a Superdrive it was supposed to be mind-numbingly simple to burn home videos to DVDs. In three years I have successfully burnt four movies. I ugrade iLife every time thinking they'll get the bugs worked out of iMovie and iDVD and they never do...but Steve said it would work?!?!? You mean he LIED!?!?! (Crawls in corner and weeps...) jk...

D

 

[840quadra]

Responding to questions in order:
1. Future is unknown of course, but since in all likelihood this change is motivated by the fact IBM is abandoning Apple then at some point Intel will certainly pass a stagnant G5

2. Currently, I think consumer space IBM=AMD > Intel. This does not entail the entire architecture where IBM>>>>>Intel (busses, chipsets, controllers, ect).

3. IBM can ignore Apple as their only small client. Intel will be making these chips anyway, for Dell, HP, ect. So, Apple is just one more buyer. Intel can care or not care, but Apple can still buy the chips.

4. IBM is bigger than Intel. IBM is 9 in sales, 23 in profits. Intel is 53 in sales, 29 in profits. Again, it won't matter what Intel wants. They will be making the chips anyway.

5. Yes, I think Apple just wants to have the Mhz problem go away. The hassle is not worth the times they are ahead.

Good open minded response.

Remember everyone, this IS A ROADMAP. And Apple is looking years ahead, and not being blinded by it's "Current" sucsess.


Side note..


WOZ was at the keynote!!!

That is soo cool, I wonder what he is thinking about this new phase of apple ?

 

[Frobozz]

First and foremost-- someone please pass the salt and pepper. I need to eat my shorts.

When I am done eating my shorts, I will wonder what possible scenario the Mac gaming market will survive when you can run Windows on a Mac natively. Phil Shiller said they won't prevent it, and I can't imagine that the opposite won't be true is some way on your dell.

This is just odd. I see a lot of promising new horizons but I also see some very sketchy territory for native OS X software. Yikes.

 

[mainframe]

hmm

everyone seems to be assuming that intel = x86

as far as ive read from 'official' documents, it only ever says INTEL. it doesnt say x86.
how do we know that intel wont be making something else?
maybe not ppc, but what if its an entirely new architecture? or something like the xeon?

i dont know much about intel chips so i wont pretend to, but just thought id ask...

 

[OutThere]

what people miss is the beauty of mac os...while for years MAC had true plug and play...it took MS years to do it and it still doesn't work right...MAC OS will still install all the drivers for your hardware be it PPC or INTEL...they will still recognize all your hardware be it PPC or INTEL....they are still years
ahead in OS design...IMO

Agreed...but I wonder if Apple might want to take a step back, and realize that some users would still like customizability. OS X is extremely powerful, yet there are a lot of things in it that have started to become much more like windows. There with each update (10.1, 10.2, 10.3, 10.4 etc) I've found that there have been more things that are automated, more things that are made to work for you, which is nice, until you want to do it your own way, and can't. Apple could be making a mistake in this situation if they continue to follow the "nanny computer" lines of windows.

 

[jar]

<snip>
This Rosetta technology looks impressive, but with Intel's register starved architecture, there is now way it will be "fast enough" for all applications. I'd like to see a demo of an application that does some big time crunching, something like VLC or Photoshop doing something more than just an emboss filter. Yes I realize that these will probably be ported real soon, but im sure there is some 3D game or other piece of software that will not run as "seamless" as promised. A good example could be the altivec enabled programs. I'd be interested to see some stats on that!

Read back a few pages. Rosetta DOES NOT support AltiVec.

 

[Warbrain]

Ok, then why not in 4 to 6 months? If it's really as easy to port applications as he says...

Would it really surprise anyone if they came out with Intel-powered Macs by the next expo? Even if only Apple-made programs are x86 native, what's it matter? The emulation will be there and everything will be fine.

By the way, when is the next expo?

 

[tokevino]

everyone seems to be assuming that intel = x86

as far as ive read from 'official' documents, it only ever says INTEL. it doesnt say x86.
how do we know that intel wont be making something else?

The Xcode 2.1 is already released, compiler is for Pentium...

 

[Bloo Ice]

This may have been already asked, but the batteries in my BT mouse are dead and I don't have any spares, making browsing REALLY hard to do. How long do you speculate until they ship OS X for us PC users? I'd like to have OS X, but can't afford a mac right now.

 

[OutThere]

Should Intel fall, there is a company called Advanced Micro Device, who has already made a faster desktop chip than Intel does...

I think Apple will be in a bad way if they decide to change their situation AGAIN...it would really be a terrible move for them to make sweeping changed throughout their software and hardware architecture, as well as their business strategy, only to abandon yet another processor company. And if they don't like AMD? Are they going to crawl on their knees back to Intel? IBM? Moto?

 

[fgdn17]

Who wants to bet Apple's new back up plan is to have a fully x86 compatible version of OS X? I think the switch to intel will have a lot of legs but just in case microsoft decides to play dirty, Apple can just release an OS that will run on wintel machines... with a small tweek and a recompile.

A few more things:
Now we know why they stopped having intel bake offs.
How many os up dates will it take for apple to stop supporting PPC?
Will Macintel photoshop run faster than wintel photoshop?
What about dual processors?

mac osx has been cross platform compatible since it's inception...X86 and PPC...

 

[orion123]

This fall/winter/spring should be really interesting to see if IBM is able to deliver the promised quantities of chips for the XBOX360 and PS3. If I hear one word about "missed deadlines" or having to throttle down the clockrates at all, or any launch date slippage, then we'll know Apple was right and IBM was all talk and no delivery.

If that happens all you whiners have to step back and admit Steve was right.

If those systems launch fine and sell millions, well maybe Steve was a little too rash....

 

[joeboy_45101]

Does anybody have a file I can download of the WWDC Keynote, maybe with bitTorrent. I have QuickTime 7 Pro but don't know how to capture the stream.

 

[Adam Ruth]

everyone seems to be assuming that intel = x86

as far as ive read from 'official' documents, it only ever says INTEL. it doesnt say x86.

From http://developer.apple.com/documentation/MacOSX/Conceptual/universal_binary/:

The term x86 is a generic term used throughout this book to refer to the class of microprocessors manufactured by Intel. This book uses the term x86 as a synonym for IA-32 (Intel Architecture 32-bit).

So it is x86.

 

[OutThere]

This may have been already asked, but the batteries in my BT mouse are dead and I don't have any spares, making browsing REALLY hard to do. How long do you speculate until they ship OS X for us PC users? I'd like to have OS X, but can't afford a mac right now.

It's looking like OS X for x86 is going to be restricted to custom Apple hardware.............until someone hacks it that is.

 

[finchna]

As rumored, Steve Jobs announced today at the Apple Worldwide Developers Conference that the Macintosh will make a transition to Intel processors.

Saying "It's time for a third transition," he explained that the need for the change was more than just the inability to deliver a 3.0GHz Power Mac, as he promised 2 years ago, but that Intel offers increased performance AND reduced power consumption

I understand this will be a phased transition with low end machine first. Does this mean that PowerMacs are stuck at 2.7GHz for the next year+? That would be terrible to have nothing faster to use for so long!

 

[tjwett]

This may have been already asked, but the batteries in my BT mouse are dead and I don't have any spares, making browsing REALLY hard to do. How long do you speculate until they ship OS X for us PC users? I'd like to have OS X, but can't afford a mac right now.

until today i would have predicted sometime around "a cold day in hell". but according to today's forecast the temperature in hell has reached a balmy 33 degrees. could happen, someday. if it's ever going to happen i would guess it would be right alongside Longhorn. perhaps they will see how well the hardware business is thriving at that point.

 

[tokevino]

I think Apple will be in a bad way if they decide to change their situation AGAIN...it would really be a terrible move for them to make sweeping changed throughout their software and hardware architecture, as well as their business strategy, only to abandon yet another processor company. And if they don't like AMD? Are they going to crawl on their knees back to Intel? IBM? Moto?

AMD is x86; Intel is x86. Once you jumped to the x86 boat, you can take whatever seats you like! In fact, if you can write your own driver for the chipsets, you can *probably* have the Tiger for Intel "sing" with an AMD inside.

 

[Wonder Boy]

As long a Apple doesn't have to put that dumbass Intel 'Tune' in their ads!!!!

i've said it before and i'll say it again...what ads?

 

[ksz]

this is the worst move apple will ever make. steve will realise it in two years when macs have .2% of the market share.

This is what everyone said when Apple began sleeping with the enemy, IBM, several years ago. Recall the 1984 Macintosh commercial that had fired a missle across the bow of mindless worker bees in black suits, only to enter into a decades-long partnership later on.

Recently the enemy has been Intel and they're about to become strange bedfellows. In two years time we will be wondering why we raised such an unnecessary ruckus over nothing.

 

[OutThere]

I understand this will be a phased transition with low end machine first. Does this mean that PowerMacs are stuck at 2.7GHz for the next year+? That would be terrible to have nothing faster to use for so long!

This is one of the problems we're looking at....it seems like Apple will have a tough time keeping its customer base while waiting on the new Mactels....especially because it will be a hard sell to keep people buying the PPC based machines...

 

[Stella]

This reminds me of Cobol ;-)

Some sick people made Object Oriented Cobol.


Its time to move to the present.

Where I work there are almost 30 computers and they are all running OS9 or earlier!! (Yes, there are some running OS8 and I believe even OS7!!!) Not every company (or home user for that matter) has the money to upgrade all the time. I'm sure my company bought most the computers they're using now new (some are used) and that they were a major investment that was intended to last for several years.

As a side note, anyone who thinks this is going to be an easy transition because of Rosetta is nuts. I'm sorry but I've heard old Steve-O say the line "It just works" too many times. (Keep in mind, I so love my iMac (it's a G4 GASP! You mean it still runs???)) Anyway, when I got my iMac with iDVD and a Superdrive it was supposed to be mind-numbingly simple to burn home videos to DVDs. In three years I have successfully burnt four movies. I ugrade iLife every time thinking they'll get the bugs worked out of iMovie and iDVD and they never do...but Steve said it would work?!?!? You mean he LIED!?!?! (Crawls in corner and weeps...) jk...

D

 

[tokevino]

This may have been already asked, but the batteries in my BT mouse are dead and I don't have any spares, making browsing REALLY hard to do. How long do you speculate until they ship OS X for us PC users? I'd like to have OS X, but can't afford a mac right now.

Only if Apple decide to drop the hardware business and become a software company, which mean they will compete with MS head to head. So do not expect this to happen any time soon. Get yourself a Mac Mini instead...

 

[runninmac]

Would it really surprise anyone if they came out with Intel-powered Macs by the next expo? Even if only Apple-made programs are x86 native, what's it matter? The emulation will be there and everything will be fine.

By the way, when is the next expo?

The next major expo is in paris in the fall they always seam to attend that. I think its early september. I have also heard rumors that apple will have a presence in MW (something) in july.

 

[orion123]

I understand this will be a phased transition with low end machine first. Does this mean that PowerMacs are stuck at 2.7GHz for the next year+? That would be terrible to have nothing faster to use for so long!

Steve said "lots of great PowerPC products coming in the next year" so you can bet the farm on a 3GHz G5 PM by January. They'll be upgrading the PowerMacs and agressively lowering prices over the next year.

(Justification: It will be better for Apple to loose money by lowering prices and selling hardware during this transition, rather than loose money by not selling computers at all while people wait for IntelMacs)