MacMerc: Apple's LCD Dead Pixel Policy Published

[vrapan]

but for brand-new gear, IIRC you have a brief no-questions-asked return window (~10 days or so, I think?).

This is partially true you can return the product but you will have to pay a 10% restocking feeeven if you return it on the first day. In UK there is a policy where you have a 2 week window to return your product it is in a bill passed called Consumer Protection Act or something like that. But I don't know if Apple has to follow it or they still charge you 10% restocking fee. In US as long as I understand is up to the retailer. For example Amazon will accept the product back in the first 2 weeks I think no questions asked and no restocking fee.

I got my PB from Apple and it had 1 stuck pixel red. it is quite obvious when i watch movies but otherwise it is not very visible. When the next day I called the Apple Store they told me the numbers i think they said something like 4 dead and or 5 stuck or something like that. And I was not prepared for 1 pixel to pay the 10%. This is why it can be better to buy Apple products from resellers that offer that sort of assurance.

 

[Dros]

Seems like a strange set of rules:
4 on
5 off
8 of either

Why the 8 of either? You could have--
8 on 0 off (covered by first rule)
7 on 1 off (1st)
6 on 2 off (1st)
5 on 3 off (1st)
4 on 4 off (1st)
3 on 5 off (2nd) etc etc...

or are there other defects than always on or off? 😕

 

[ant_s]

Wait, wait, wait... Let me get this strait! Your 'CRT' (Cathode Ray Tube) had a group of dead PIXELS?!

This is actually half true. Defects in the grille can indeed give the effect of dead pixels, particularly on cheap monitors.

I have a CTX PR960F, quite an upmarket model, and it has a very small defect in the left centre, about 2 inches in from the left. It is quite possible that a cluster of apparent dead pixels could make their way into a CRT monitor, although they aren't true pixels, but rather holes in the mesh, which are very much smaller than pixels themselves.

 

[AppleMatt]

I'm surprised Apple haven't jumped on this, those that have access to service manuals will know how categorically Apple state not releasing these tolerances to the "public" and the reasons why. I wonder what's changed.

robrippin,
I guess as you are new you are not familiar with this forums etiquette. Forum rules clearly state how to address people. I suggest you read the "read this or risk getting banned" thread by arn, it's there for a reason. Being confrontational doesn't help anyone.

https://forums.macrumors.com/announcement.php?s=&forumid=4

AppleMatt

 

[MrMacMan]

Originally posted by Mudbug
you know, out of a few million pixels, 5 isn't really bad... it would cost lotsa dough to replace every panel if it were less than these specs.

Yeah I think this is acceptable... Unless they are all bunched in a group (almost impossible) to create a big pack of dead or light pixels then I don't think this is a huge problem.

Though it is good to have numbers.

 

[cnladd]

Originally posted by MrMacman
Yeah I think this is acceptable... Unless they are all bunched in a group (almost impossible) to create a big pack of dead or light pixels then I don't think this is a huge problem.

Though it is good to have numbers.

Most manufacturers have rules that allow for replacement of a smaller number of dead pixels if there are X number within X distance of each other (where X is a number smaller than the normal count of 8.)

I once ran a utility that turned the screen all red, all blue, all green, all black, and all white -- to help show where the dead/lit pixels were. I noticed a blue one in the lower right corner.

After that, that's all I saw. It bugged the hell outta me. It constantly distracted me. It was like a freshly pulled tooth -- the open socket is just always there! After a month or so, though, it went away.

I've never used that utility since. I don't care if I have dead/lit pixels, unless it gets in the way of normal work on its own. If I do have one then I don't want it pointed out to me.

 

[pellucidity]

Stuck vs Dead

Without being willing to take responsibility for the consequences of this advice.... I'll mention that I have been told that in some cases stuck pixels can be massaged gently back to life. Don't scratch your display up trying, but be gentle. Dead pixels, of course, are dead and forgotten. But it's a thought. To be honest, I've been lucky so I haven't tried this. My iBook and 15" Samsung are fine, and my parents' 15" and 17" Iiyamas work... So I haven't tried it.

Perhaps we have a soul who can give it a try?

 

[patrick0brien]

-robrippin

Woah!

Your three posts have already set a less-than-ideal precedent. You are correct on your facts, but your delivery is a little close to whacking people over the head with it.

Please, back of a little.

 

[Doctor Q]

Originally posted by Dros
Seems like a strange set of rules:
4 on
5 off
8 of either

Why the 8 of either? You could have--
8 on 0 off (covered by first rule)
7 on 1 off (1st)
6 on 2 off (1st)
5 on 3 off (1st)
4 on 4 off (1st)
3 on 5 off (2nd) etc etc...

or are there other defects than always on or off?

The 3rd rule handles these cases:

3 on 6 off
4 on 5 off
4 on 6 off

which are not covered by the 1st and 2nd rules.

 

[Archmage]

Originally posted by Doctor Q
The 3rd rule handles these cases:

3 on 6 off
4 on 5 off
4 on 6 off

which are not covered by the 1st and 2nd rules.

3 on 6 off: covered by rule 2 (more than 5 off)

4 on 5 off: ok

4 on 6 off: covered by rule 2 (more than 5 off)

...

 

[acj]

Originally posted by Dros
Seems like a strange set of rules:
4 on
5 off
8 of either

Why the 8 of either? You could have--
8 on 0 off (covered by first rule)
7 on 1 off (1st)
6 on 2 off (1st)
5 on 3 off (1st)
4 on 4 off (1st)
3 on 5 off (2nd) etc etc...

or are there other defects than always on or off? 😕

Yes, when refering to sub pixels. Each pixel has three sub pixels. Most plans offer replacement if a few full pixels are all on or all off and slightly more if it's just the sub pixel, which might display yellow (green+red but not blue) instead of white.

On a side note, some people have been able to litterally massage pixels back into life. I'm not suggesting this though, so don't come to me if you kill your LCD...

 

[fpnc]

Yes, all of these numbers refer to subpixels, not whole pixels. A subpixel is pretty small and in fact on the higher dot pitch displays you probably do need a magnifying glass to see the difference between a subpixel and a whole pixel (that latter would count as three subpixels or three defects).

So, to be fair to Apple, this is a dead subpixel policy not just a dead pixel count.

 

[LimeiBook86]

I already knew...

my LimeiBook's original display had 2or 3 dead pixels toward the middle of the screen, it was bright red! 🙁 I just got it, refirbished from MacWarehouse, Apple didn't fix it because it had to be more than 4 pixels...But then my brother broke my screen by mistake and I got a new LCD for my iBook on eBay for $300, which included shipping the iBook off to the company. Now my iBook has some small faint black dots/stripes in the uper right hand corner of the plastic that holds the LCD...maybe it is just dirt or something...

Anyway if the dead pixels are in the middle of the damn screen they should fix it! 😡 Oh well...let's hope I don't have any more in my future laptops...🙄

 

[mvc]

Originally posted by SubGothius

Also, I seem to recall some mention of a technique where you can try gently massaging a dead/stuck pixel back to life, but I don't remember the details, how well it works, if it's even a good idea, etc.

Hmm - CPR for dead pixels.

Wait, we'll try shock treatment, get the electrodes - CLEAR!!!

 

[mstecker]

Where do displays with too many dead pixels go?

Where do displays with too many dead pixels end up? I, for one, would be very interested in buying a Cinama HD display with a <few> too many dead pixels for a sizeable discount.

Are they destroyed? Cannibalized for other spare parts? Sold to employees at a discount? Tossed into the mythical landfill with the Apple IIIs and the Lisas?


What really has my curiousity going about this is that I follow the mac hardware market pretty closely. I'm always scrounging around on eBay, or places like smalldog and I've NEVER seen a "refurb" LCD being sold with the defect of too many dead pixels.

So, where do they go? They gotta go somewhere.

 

[DbAscent94]

Originally posted by robrippin
YOU don't know what you are talking about... There is no such thing as a 40-50 inch LCD. The term you are looking for is PLASMA TV! PLASMA TV's don't get dead pixels because they use a gas instead of the LED type stuff in LCD...

Just an FYI to inform the uniformed. There are 40-60 inch LCDs but they are projection based. I suggest you look at Sony's Grand Wega line and Panasonics new 50 projection based LCDs. I have a one year old Panasonic 40 inch LCD projection with several stuck pixels on it. To the best of my knowledge Panasonic's replacement policy is 15 defective pixels in one quadrant of the TV.

 

[SiliconAddict]

Three words to this policy.....full of ****.

Where's the quality Apple? Stand behind your product!! 😡

I'm sorry but the screen is your window to your computer. Anything less then perfect is BS. Esp if you are spending a whole hell of a lot of money on a laptop. I'm betting this applies to powerbooks too right? So someone spends 3 grand + on a laptop and dead pixels are an acceptable flaw?


PS- Can't you return a Mac if its within 30 days of purchase?

 

[Frohickey]

I think it has gotten a whole lot better.

I remember buying my first laptop, an Apple PowerBook 180. The first one that I got had two stuck on pixels near the center of the screen. I brought it back to the store, and opened up 2 other boxes, and took home the one with one stuck on pixel near the side of the screen.

After that, I got a Powerbook 3400, and it had 2 stuck pixels, both red, near the edge of the screen.

After this, there have been no more dead pixels at all. The Powerbook... (fat, swoopy, with rubberized top and bottom) had zero dead pixels, not in red, green, blue, white or black.

The TiBook doesn't have any either.

 

[kylos]

Originally posted by SiliconAddict
Three words to this policy.....full of ****.

Where's the quality Apple? Stand behind your product!! 😡

I'm sorry but the screen is your window to your computer. Anything less then perfect is BS. Esp if you are spending a whole hell of a lot of money on a laptop. I'm betting this applies to powerbooks too right? So someone spends 3 grand + on a laptop and dead pixels are an acceptable flaw?


PS- Can't you return a Mac if its within 30 days of purchase?

Think about it like this. In a 1024 by 768 monitor, there are 786,432 pixels. Each pixel is composed of three subpixels, for a total of 2,359,296 possible different pixel defects. If just 8 are defective that means that Apple will replace a monitor that is only .00034% defective. Considering that they in some cases they will replace a monitor with even fewer defects and that a 1024 by 768 is the smallest LCD produced by Apple (thus lowering the acceptable error rate even more for larger monitors), I think Apple is being extremely fair, some might say overly fair.

Oh, and think about this. Each pixel is .000031 square inches in area. It's simply astounding that these things can be mass produced at such low failure rates.

 

[razorme]

Originally posted by fpnc
Yes, all of these numbers refer to subpixels, not whole pixels. A subpixel is pretty small and in fact on the higher dot pitch displays you probably do need a magnifying glass to see the difference between a subpixel and a whole pixel (that latter would count as three subpixels or three defects).

AFAIK, there are no subpixels in LCDs. Each pixel has the three color filters layered on top of each other, and each is controlled by its own transistor. If one transistor is malfunctioning, then you get a color problem. If all three malfunction, then you get a dead or white pixel.

BTW: The closeness of the three filters to each other is what causes the colors to distort as you look at each pixel from an angle!

 

[weave]

Large LCD TVs

I've been looking at a 30" LCD TV. It's like $4,000. For that price, I don't think it's too unreasonable to expect perfection.

Also, by the way, from what I've read, Plasmas can also have dead pixels.

 

[CooCooCaChoo]

I don't understand...

Why this story has been classed as "negative" considering that the Acceptable Dead Pixel Standard has been around for a few years and that every LCD producer who has signed up to it conforms to the a standard which outlines the maximum number of dead pixels before the display is considered unacceptable.

If it weren't for this programme LCD displays would cost atleast 3x the price they are today.

 

[Doctor Q]

Originally posted by Archmage
3 on 6 off: covered by rule 2 (more than 5 off)

4 on 6 off: covered by rule 2 (more than 5 off)

I don't think so. Rule 2 is "7 or more off", not "more than 5 off", so it doesn't apply to 6 off. And rule 1 (5 or more on) doesn't apply to 3 on or 4 on. But because these cases have 9 in combination and 10 in combination, respectively, they meet rule 3 (9 or more in combination).

 

[sacrilicious]

Originally posted by robrippin
Wait, wait, wait... Let me get this strait! Your 'CRT' (Cathode Ray Tube) had a group of dead PIXELS?! 😕

Please learn the technical jargon so you know wtf you are talking about

😛

Regardless, there was a black group of spots about a quarter inch in diameter.

 

[MacViolinist]

Unfortunately, Apple has one of the worst policies regarding LCD screens.

There is, according to AASP training, a valid method of attempting to rescusitate a dead pixel on an LCD. It does involve a massage.

Keep in mind that on an LCD the pixel that is stuck on is black vs. the CRT where the pixel stuck in the on position is white.

Just to back up my opening statement, Dell will replace your LCD screen for 3 on pixels and 5 off.