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While not a demo, they did show Terminal in the "We updated all our apps to work on the A-chips!" slide.
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I'm excited to see how this all plays out regarding the transition. At first, I was a little worried, but going back and watching everything again, I think they have this figured out. They've done it before, and it seems all the pieces are there to make it seamless for most (if not everyone) people using the Mac.

watch, they will do the same s*** they did to PowerPC- v1 Mac users - I give intel Macs the same amount of time.. Snow Leopard would have been great on aG5 or high end G4 system.. during snow leopard several last PPC Macs cane out - THEY DELIBERTLY cut PPC too short, same will be with Intel - Apple didn’t give a **** about you, me, anyone’s needs - they do what they do. Watch, intel Macs will be cut around same time frame like PPC.
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But I am very much for PowerPC’s return as ARM, Apple silicon is too lame.. I prefer to call it RISC PowerPC V2 ARM on steroids.
 
I might be overthinking, but perhaps sometimes in future MacOS would refusing any .dmg or package files installation, allowing only Mac App Store download, just like on walled garden of iOS nature.

The cosmetics changes in Big Sour is like iPad without touch screen. Well, those interface are very tap-able for touch screen device, operation with mouse pointer and keyboard looks clunky.
 
Yeah, and all it takes is an understanding that if you’re going to make a big change, do it in approximately 20 year chunks. The folks that are in their twenties now will be all excited and on top of what’s going on. As they age into their 40’s and want everything to be like it was in THEIR 20’s, you get the attention of the next group of 20’s.

Except those of us who are old enough to remember when Apple tried doing things their own way remember how horribly they failed. Apple ruled the personal computing when they sourced their chips from Motorola. Then Motorola could not compete with intel. Instead of making the switch to intel, they decided to join the PPC alliance and switched to PPC processors. Combined with using NeXt as the base for their new OS and releasing new innovative computer designs they were able to survive for a few years until they made the switch to Intel. To be honest I bought 2 PowerMac based machines and then jumped over to windows during this period because a Mac could not do as much as a windows machine did.

After the switch to intel however I got interested again. In the last 14 years their marketshare has tripled. As a bonus you have a computer which can natively run any OS you can get drivers for.

Now as a Mac user I am supposed to be convinced that a machine that does less is better because of...battery life? My iMac will always have horrible battery life.
 
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I don't know what to make of us this, but MacOS 11 and Apple silicon feels like the end of a chapter. The end the jobs chapter. Finally. :(
Yep, agreed. And the timing for the completion of the transition coincides with both the 20-year span Steve assigned to OS X and the "death" of OS 9.

However, I believe Steve's soul is still there, regardless of this being Tim's Apple now.

Apple stumbled in the mid/late 10's, but it looks like they're gaining their footing and the 20's seem to be going to roar again.
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Agreed, definitely looking at a Razer Blade Stealth 13 + Arch Linux for my new machine.
That is no doubt a nice machine, but why not wait to see if Apple delivers first?

The option to leave has ALWAYS been there.
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They turned the Mac into an iPad
This has been coming since OS X Lion's "Back to the Mac" initiative.

I knew the merging of iPadOS and macOS was accelerating when the iPad got trackpad/mouse support. Apple finally nailed down how to implement a pointer in a touch-based OS.

I posit that by the time the transition to ARM is complete, the gap between these two OSes will be as narrow as the gap between iOS and iPadOS is now.

Bear in mind, iOS/iPadOS are the Apple OSes the majority of Apple users know and love by quite a big margin. MacOS becoming more familiar to Apple's largest customer base was always inevitable.

Welcome to getting old. ;)
 
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He said, you can buy macintel now but say good bye to them in few years, as before, so there are 2 years of incertidumbre again.
Just lets see how rossetta works and when are acailable mac ARM as I need a new machine and of course it won’t be a macintel
The G5 was the worst purchase I’ve ever done in my live.
I’m just sorry for the latest macintels’s customers
I'd wait and see if Apple clarifies their support scheme for intel Macs. I'm on 2011 hardware and it's still going strong (for my needs), even if I'm stuck on High Sierra.

As long as they continue support via point-releases and app updates, we should be fine.

I recognize this is scary, but even if they drop support your intel Mac will make a decent PC or Linux machine, I'd think.
 
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Some discoveries about MacOs 11

- Version 11 in about screen
- Kernel version 10.16 (Third party apps say macOs 10.16 instead of macOs 11.0)
- Darwin version 20.0.0

guess Kernel wil be 11.0 in future bèta’s
 
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So does this means they’re bringing it back?

Yes. The experience is kinda weird on my MacBook Pro 16-inch. I have a triple boot configuration that can boot between Windows, macOS Big Sur, and macOS Catalina. Prior to installing macOS Big Sur, if I booted my machine, there would be no startup chime. After installing macOS Big Sur, I hear the startup chime every time I boot the laptop. Regardless of OS - macOS Catalina, macOS Big Sur, or Windows.

So, I guess what this means is that when you go ahead and install macOS Big Sur, whatever changes macOS Big Sur makes, the startup chime gets added deep into the EFI or someplace so that the startup chime plays every time the computer boots up.

I guess the only way to test my theory is to do a complete format of my hard drive and then reinstall macOS Catalina to confirm my hypothesis.

Just my thoughts...
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I'd wait and see if Apple clarifies their support scheme for intel Macs. I'm on 2011 hardware and it's still going strong (for my needs), even if I'm stuck on High Sierra.

As long as they continue support via point-releases and app updates, we should be fine.

I recognize this is scary, but even if they drop support your intel Mac will make a decent PC or Linux machine, I'd think.

Give it Linux, don't give it Windows....The Apple drivers on Windows are pretty awful...
 
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Can't wait to see what this will do to installer scripts only checking for the minor parts of the system version! (E.g. macOS 11.0 would check out to said installers as being Mac OS X 10.0 🤓).
 


Apple appears to be moving on from macOS 10 at long last.

In the System Preferences menu in the first developer beta of macOS Big Sur, the software update is listed as version 11.0.

macos-big-sur-version-11.jpg

Assuming nothing changes between now and the public release of macOS Big Sur in the fall, this would mark the end of an era for Apple's desktop platform. For nearly two decades, every major release of macOS (previously known as OS X) was an increment of version 10, ranging from OS X 10.0 Cheetah in 2001 to macOS 10.15 Catalina in 2019.

It's worth noting that the beta file for macOS Big Sur lists the software update as 10.16, but it is referred to as 11.0 everywhere else.

Article Link: macOS Big Sur Listed as 'Version 11.0' in System Preferences

Maybe we should call it Mac OS XI (oh sexy version)?
 
The startup chime is back?

The chime never went away. For some it was disabled by default on newer systems. But even they could manually get it back.

You can get it back in terminal with

sudo nvram StartupMute=%00

You can disable it with

sudo nvram StartupMute=%01

These commands aren't new.

For me I had the chime in Big Sur and tested the commands, first to disable, then the re-enable. They still work in Big Sur

It seems though you need to shut it down and reboot rather than restart.
 
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I like how you view things. It’s still an important mark to the ended of Jobs era.

I think it’s too early to judge. I do worry about loosing the flexibility we’ve had on the platform with intel chips.

I think some cross pollination of iOS, which is more popular Than Mac makes sense, however I have been leaning towards Mac being a spin off anyway and if one can’t be done as well as the other maybe it’s time to re-evaluate the product line or ethos to it.

Mac and IOS must remain separate else see a range of people quit to Windows


Yep, agreed. And the timing for the completion of the transition coincides with both the 20-year span Steve assigned to OS X and the "death" of OS 9.

However, I believe Steve's soul is still there, regardless of this being Tim's Apple now.

Apple stumbled in the mid/late 10's, but it looks like they're gaining their footing and the 20's seem to be going to roar again.
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Arstechnica is complaining that the 'transition kit' isn't 'sold', but basically 'rented'. But so were the Intel kits. And everyone that had an Intel kit got a 'free' Intel iMac when they turned in their kit. Not a bad deal it would seem...
 
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They last ruled personal computing when they were sourcing 65C02’s, though. Otherwise, personal computing has been dominated by some x86 variant.

They ruled the educational market, and there were a lot of businesses that used the Apple III. Then IBM came in, and Microsoft, and they stole Apple's lunch, and Apple wasn't able, or willing(?) to react. Interesting that later day Apple basically gave up on the 'business market' by killing their server(s), and hogtying their Unix/Linux OS. Ignoring a massive facet of the whole computer market isn't a great path to increased market share. *shrug* Maybe admitting defeat helps them survive. They have done pretty well for having such a small part of the computer market.
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It’s always been a it odd to call it “OSX 10.#” as opposed to “OSX.#”

They could have made 'OSX' a brand. So the current version would be 'OSX 15'. *shrug*
 
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They ruled the educational market, and there were a lot of businesses that used the Apple III. Then IBM came in, and Microsoft, and they stole Apple's lunch, and Apple wasn't able, or willing(?) to react. Interesting that later day Apple basically gave up on the 'business market' by killing their server(s), and hogtying their Unix/Linux OS. Ignoring a massive facet of the whole computer market isn't a great path to increased market share. *shrug* Maybe admitting defeat helps them survive. They have done pretty well for having such a small part of the computer market.
That is an interesting series of events. I think that Steve had time to steam... I mean... think about this in his exile. I believe that is one of the reasons he pointed out the fact that Apple had to "let go of the notion that for Apple to win, Microsoft had to lose" immediately upon his return.

Since then, I think Apple has targeted "the right customer", not "all customers". The "right customer" for Apple, in my opinion, is the consumer, NOT the computer nerd or pro. That is a much, much bigger market.

Still, Steve was firing on all cylinders upon his return and we got the perfect storm of great vision turned into game-changing products combined with absolutely BRILLIANT marketing, all the way until his death.

The iMac, then the iPod, the iPhone, and the iPad. Laser-targeted strikes right at the heart of the consumer. This is what saved Apple, and continues to keep it on top. And even though he was furious about Android, he still treated it like Microsoft in the "competition" space: "They don't have to lose in order for us to win."

Tim was there, so he knows this. Products under his tenure have continued this trend: AppleWatch, AirPods, HomePod are all extensions of the above.

But Steve also loved the arts as much as the tech, and Apple creators and engineers needed the tools to build with, so he maintained the "Pro" side alive as well.
 
Steve lied ? It hasn’t been 20 years yet - 2003-2004 is 2024 or 2023 - that’s 20 years.
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Another lie Steve said - “and we have still great PowerPC products yet to come” - May he take that to the grave.

It has been 20 years. Mac OS X was born in 2000. Mac OS X was set out to last 20 years as noted by Steve Jobs himself.
 
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Since then, I think Apple has targeted "the right customer", not "all customers". The "right customer" for Apple, in my opinion, is the consumer, NOT the computer nerd or pro. That is a much, much bigger market.

While Apple has done a lot to please the consumer (or prosumer), a great looking machine with a slick UI isn’t going to sell without dev support. That’s why Apple worked so hard to save their Pro market reputation by fixing the trash can MacPro mistake. Remember back in the mid 90’s devs were abandoning MacOS because of decreased marketshare and crappy architecture. I’m worried that if this ARM gamble doesn’t work then the devs will leave again.
 
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While Apple has done a lot to please the consumer (or prosumer), a great looking machine with a slick UI isn’t going to sell without dev support. That’s why Apple worked so hard to save their Pro market reputation by fixing the trash can MacPro mistake. Remember back in the mid 90’s devs were abandoning MacOS because of decreased marketshare and crappy architecture. I’m worried that if this ARM gamble doesn’t work then the devs will leave again.
At the end of my post I stated "But Steve also loved the arts as much as the tech, and Apple creators and engineers needed the tools to build with, so he maintained the "Pro" side alive as well. "

I believe Tim understands this too; as you mentioned they fixed the "trash can mistake". They also fixed the MBP keyboard mistake. They fixed the iPad not having mouse support "mistake".

That said, the Apple ecosystem is too profitable for devs to ignore it.

I venture to say (I really don't know..not a dev) that development for that particular target market is not really chip-platform dependent. They just need the tools to build with. Apple's initiatives, from Swift to Metal to their "anyone can code" support systems are meant to mitigate a fear-based exodus.

Apple is in a very, very different position now than they were in the 90's.
 
I venture to say (I really don't know..not a dev) that development for that particular target market is not really chip-platform dependent. They just need the tools to build with. Apple's initiatives, from Swift to Metal to their "anyone can code" support systems are meant to mitigate a fear-based exodus.

Apple is in a very, very different position now than they were in the 90's.

You are right Apple's mobile App Store is more profitable for devs at the moment but that gap is not growing, it's is shrinking. My concern is where this architecture shift takes macOS now as a platform which is going to rely heavily on iOS apps and emulation.
 
We will all laugh in 5 years when we remember the MacBook Pro had a 100watt power supply and you had to charge it twice a day instead of the 2025 Mac that can run off battery for 4 days :)
Much like we’re all laughing now because our iPhone and iPad batteries last for 4 days? :)
 
Actually, imo with the base Ax Mac having such powerful GPU (let's assume it's at least the A12Z level), and same platform as iOS, I think we will see a new era of gaming on Macs. The issue with Macs right now is the small userbase and the fact that most Macs comes with the crappy intel integrated graphics. This transition will add the mac userbase to the already large iOS userbase in terms of gaming, and much easier for developers to target both.

I'm not a gamer -but plenty of ppl that are. Small touchscreen games are complete different concepts to "full" computer games - hence I don't see an advantge to CPU parity with the iOS platform.

Even Nintendo could not figure out how to make games that were compelling on both consoles and phones.

Is an A12 Mac going to have the GPU power of a dedicated nVidia / AMD card :eek:?
 
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