macOS Sequoia Slated to Launch in Mid-September Alongside iOS 18

I mean, this makes sense as most of the new features are in Apple Intelligence anyway.

I always wait for the first point update before upgrading since my Mac is critical for my work, so it will be nice to not have to wait as long this year. As long as Apple Intelligence doesn't take over my system.
 
Dave-Z said:
I use WSL on Windows often and don't experience this. I installed it manually via PowerShell and I download the tar images for the distro(s) I use. Then (again, in PowerShell) I just create/destroy containers as I need them using the local images on my device.

I think the graphical portion of WSL (running windowed applications) is a flaky, but the command line stuff (web servers, databases, Python utilities, etc.) has worked quite well for me.
Click to expand...
WSL feels fine to use, but the security is not where it should be. We have denied WSL on our 10k clients due to the security threat it poses.
 
poematik13 said:
every new macOS release since Lion is an absolute mess

my rule is NEVER update macOS unless you buy new hardware and it forces you
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Couldn’t agree more; I live by that rule. Unfortunately, my well-loved 10.9-running 2013 MBP is dying, so now I’ll have to suffer macOS 14 when its successor gets here. I plan on parking there for the next decade. (Bite me, update fetishists.)
 
It's been a good few years since I jumped on a beta train, but I've been really impressed just how solid both the macOS 15 and iOS 18 developer betas have been. I was running BlueBubbles, which doesn't currently like Sequoia, but other than that, they've both been great for me.
 
Not that it matters very much, but what does it mean "Macrumors has learnt"? What's the source?

Anyway, of course it's going to launch mid-September.
 
sublunar said:
Realistically there's no dilemma, just wait 6 months for 2 or 3 point releases to fix any ongoing bugs. If you're using MacOS in a production vital environment you should just accept that and go with the most patched up previous OS that still gets updates for as long as you can
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This is exactly why they added the option to delay major updates via MDM. It allows time to test, work out kinks, etc.

You also could do the update in a VM and test your workflows to make sure they work before updating your primary machine.
 
Here's a radical idea. Delay both OSes until a key new feature is actually ready. Why rush it out in September and then NOT be able to promote Apple Intelligence as a feature of the OS? Maybe, just maybe, wait until the software is actually ready to launch and then launch it???
 
sublunar said:
Realistically there's no dilemma, just wait 6 months for 2 or 3 point releases to fix any ongoing bugs. If you're using MacOS in a production vital environment you should just accept that and go with the most patched up previous OS that still gets updates for as long as you can
Click to expand...
Big problem with that is some security updates require changes from the most recent OS to work. Apple no longer have a 'latest -2' policy for security updates - only the latest OS is guaranteed to get them all. I remember Catalina users being left high and dry with one particular issue that Big Sur resolved but their Macs weren't supported for Big Sur.
 
delsoul said:
Waiting to see how the EU forces Apple to change things with this OS release. Should be interesting to say the least.
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macOS isn't Regulated under the digital markets act the same way iOS and iPadOS is.
The only features that would be affected by the digital markets act are features that also involve an iPhone or iPad.
which is the reason why Apple Intelligence is coming in the EU to the Mac, but not the iPhone and iPad, at least not on day one.
 
poematik13 said:
every new macOS release since Lion is an absolute mess

my rule is NEVER update macOS unless you buy new hardware and it forces you
Click to expand...
Yes, I vividly remember that Lion release - it was a complete disaster! I just wish Apple would put a LOT more focus on squashing bugs instead of making new features. The only issue I'd take with your first sentence was that Snow Leopard was ok. These days, I'm just hoping Apple stop trying to make macOS look and feel like iOS...
 
OS X Dude said:
Big problem with that is some security updates require changes from the most recent OS to work. Apple no longer have a 'latest -2' policy for security updates - only the latest OS is guaranteed to get them all. I remember Catalina users being left high and dry with one particular issue that Big Sur resolved but their Macs weren't supported for Big Sur.
Click to expand...
They never had a formal 'latest -2' policy that I'm aware of. Their practices haven't changed (at least not significantly), they still generally release security updates for the previous two versions of macOS (although sometimes slightly delayed), so long as those updates can be included without risking major issues. Where they are most likely to run into problems is if the patch is in 3rd party software and an update isn't available for the major version of that software included in a specific major version of macOS.

They typically won't (and shouldn't) include a major update to a piece of software. An example would be a Python vulnerability that was only patched in versions 3.0+ might not have been patched (or patched quickly) in Monterey. This was a particularly unique instance as they actually removed Python 2.7 entirely in the macOS 12.3 release. Upgrading to Python 3 would have resolved any security issues, but also could introduce significant changes for users already using Monterey that don't expect a .x release to break workflows in unexpected ways.
 
Macaholic868 said:
I can’t help but wonder about many of the comments in here. If Apple sucks so badly these days then why stay? Why not switch to something else. You’ve got Windows or a ton of different Linux distros to choose from. Why come here and complain endlessly? What’s the point? Judging by their Mac sales numbers Apple is doing something right. You can’t grow in the way they have with the number of models they sell and the much larger pool of suppliers they have to use to produce so many units and keep the hardware and software just as tightly integrated as it was when they were a much smaller, much more niche company. I’ll still take them over Windows everyday of the week and twice on Sundays and I just don’t have the time to learn Linux and evaluate all the distros out there and the various options that come with them. No thanks for me though I get the appeal.
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Some people seem to think that Apple OS's are (or must be) bug-free.

They think exactly as those EU politicians, people that know nothing about software development want to tell companies how to do it.
 
thawk9455 said:
They never had a formal 'latest -2' policy that I'm aware of. Their practices haven't changed (at least not significantly), they still generally release security updates for the previous two versions of macOS (although sometimes slightly delayed), so long as those updates can be included without risking major issues. Where they are most likely to run into problems is if the patch is in 3rd party software and an update isn't available for the major version of that software included in a specific major version of macOS.

They typically won't (and shouldn't) include a major update to a piece of software. An example would be a Python vulnerability that was only patched in versions 3.0+ might not have been patched (or patched quickly) in Monterey. This was a particularly unique instance as they actually removed Python 2.7 entirely in the macOS 12.3 release. Upgrading to Python 3 would have resolved any security issues, but also could introduce significant changes for users already using Monterey that don't expect a .x release to break workflows in unexpected ways.
Click to expand...
Working where I do, I know that practices absolutely have changed. As I said, there will be security updates released for older OSes where possible, but where it isn't then they simply won't and there's no guarantee.
 
My rule has always been to not upgrade to a next mayor version until that version is on their .2 or .3 release. IF you are in Sonoma, there is no harm in waiting until Sequoia is on 15.2 or 15.3 to upgrade with less concerns. With the release of Sequoia on the enterprise, we are going to give it a wide berth for a bit, and we have already prestocked systems so we dont have to forcibly upgrade to Sequoia until we are ready.
 
Dave-Z said:
I use WSL on Windows often and don't experience this. I installed it manually via PowerShell and I download the tar images for the distro(s) I use. Then (again, in PowerShell) I just create/destroy containers as I need them using the local images on my device.

I think the graphical portion of WSL (running windowed applications) is a flaky, but the command line stuff (web servers, databases, Python utilities, etc.) has worked quite well for me.



I started on Windows. Then moved to Mac OS X around 10.3. In 2018 I started using Windows again. I have macOS 14.6.1 on my Mac mini now and Windows 11 (23H2) on my laptop. I think, overall, macOS has a nicer, more unified experience. However, if I'm being honest, Windows 11 really does just work; I have zero issues with it. MacOS is also fast and it works, but it's not a great experience. There's a ton of little bugs that, while not show-stoppers, make using it more frustrating. Window management is just bad and buggy. I'm not even talking about tiling (which is long overdue), but even things like when I open a new application (with Raycast or Spotlight) it randomly puts that application behind all others instead of bringing it to the front in focus. Other times, I can't bring focus to a window unless I click on a different application then back to the one I want. Nothing that is a deal-breaker, but it slows me down and is not consistent.

These days I'm probably 60% Windows and 40% macOS, but that number keeps sliding more and more to Windows because Apple doesn't seem to want to fix things.

It's really a shame, there's tremendous potential with the Mac but Apple just doesn't seem to put that last bit of effort into it any more. (Not surprising since they are now basically a cell phone manufacturer that sells online services as an upgrade.)
Click to expand...

To be fair, I've experienced focus issues on Windows as well, especially when opening a new browser tab and the focus is not in the url bar, even when it has a blinking cursor in it.

But I also know exactly what you're talking about on the Mac. It's especially bad when some applications are in full screen and it jarringly slaps you back to the main desktop when it's not necessary, etc.

Apple just doesn't seem to love the Mac anymore. It seems like the iPad was meant to replace it, but then we lost Steve and with him, any sense of direction for the iPad.

And now it seems they view the Mac as a big iPad that is mostly a real computer. And they are taking it in the wrong direction.
 
Mick-Mac said:
Yes, I vividly remember that Lion release - it was a complete disaster! I just wish Apple would put a LOT more focus on squashing bugs instead of making new features. The only issue I'd take with your first sentence was that Snow Leopard was ok. These days, I'm just hoping Apple stop trying to make macOS look and feel like iOS...
Click to expand...

the later versions of snow leapord were great, the earlier ones had crazy bugs. Even though it was a "bugfix" release. I believe High Sierra was the last "bugfix" focused release.

They cant afford bugfix releases, they have to keep piling new new new features every year because the company is owned by shareholders who demand constant YoY growth. On top of that, all the teams/departments internally are fighting eachother and trying to outcompete eachother because theyre all led by strivers who want to show that they did a thing or launched a thing so they get noticed and promoted.

it's a vicious feedback loop that will eventually lead the company into decline and turn it into IBM
 
thawk9455 said:
They never had a formal 'latest -2' policy that I'm aware of. Their practices haven't changed (at least not significantly), they still generally release security updates for the previous two versions of macOS (although sometimes slightly delayed), so long as those updates can be included without risking major issues. Where they are most likely to run into problems is if the patch is in 3rd party software and an update isn't available for the major version of that software included in a specific major version of macOS.
Click to expand...
Examples of where you can see the effects of the policy that Apple only guarantees to update the latest major version of macOS: Apache, the open source webserver which is included in macOS was updated to 2.4.59 in macOS 14.6. In 13.6.9, Apache remains at 2.4.56, which has several known vulnerabilities. Granted, not many people are running Macs as webservers but updating this on Ventura would take basically no effort and would not affect the core OS functionality in any way. Similarly, sshd is at version "OpenSSH_9.7p1, LibreSSL 3.3.6" in 14.6.1, but "OpenSSH_9.0p1, LibreSSL 3.3.6" in Ventura.
The problem with Apple's security notifications is that there's never an indication if something that isn't patched doesn't affect an older OS version, or if Apple has just decided they won't bother to patch it. Consequently, users can't make an informed choice as to whether or not it's sufficiently secure to stay on older OS versions which are ostensibly still supported by Apple.
 
Mother Nature said:
Some people seem to think that Apple OS's are (or must be) bug-free.

They think exactly as those EU politicians, people that know nothing about software development want to tell companies how to do it.
Click to expand...

Exactly. What did they think was going to happen if Apple products became a big hit and suddenly the amount of suppliers for the various components in their devices shot up? Did they think that would make it easier to maintain that kind of tight hardware and software interoperability and integration or more difficult? It makes it all way more difficult now look at all the hardware that makes up their ecosystem and I challenge you to find another vendor with the kind of cross ecosystem integration among a whole host of different devices including desktops, laptops, phones of various makes models and sizes, tablets of various makes models and sizes, the HomePods and HomePod mini’s, Apple TV’s and wearables like the Apple Watch, AirPods, the Vision Pro and soon to be Vision.

It’s all incredibly complex and difficult and I’m amazed at few bugs there actually are that are real show stoppers for me. There aren’t any I’ve come across that I haven’t been able to work around and I beta test their software as well.

Put it in perspective for a minute. The kind of software and hardware integration they have achieved is pretty darn amazing considering their size and popularity right now and the various makes and models all out there in the wild they have to support.
 
Macaholic868 said:
I can’t help but wonder about many of the comments in here. If Apple sucks so badly these days then why stay? Why not switch to something else. You’ve got Windows or a ton of different Linux distros to choose from. Why come here and complain endlessly? What’s the point? Judging by their Mac sales numbers Apple is doing something right. You can’t grow in the way they have with the number of models they sell and the much larger pool of suppliers they have to use to produce so many units and keep the hardware and software just as tightly integrated as it was when they were a much smaller, much more niche company. I’ll still take them over Windows everyday of the week and twice on Sundays and I just don’t have the time to learn Linux and evaluate all the distros out there and the various options that come with them. No thanks for me though I get the appeal.
Click to expand...
I love using my M1 Max. The issue for me has always been the switch from biannual to annual releases just causes a massive headache. There’s always something under the hood that has changed that breaks something important. New features are half baked. Search is still rubbish and Adobe is never ready.
 
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