It’s getting a bit ridiculous. Half the people I would ask , why are you even on an Apple forum if you down even own Apple products or don’t like them at all
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Macrumors , an Apple fan site has become the most toxic Apple community I have seen and almost anti Apple
- Thread starter hasanahmad
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Sometimes criticism is warranted. Apple and their products are not perfect. But on the other hand, the mods have done an excellent job cultivating a community where toxicity thrives.
what I have observed among people I talk to is a certain duality: you either hate or love Apple, and the haters tend to be stronger.
Perhaps they somewhat reluctantly still use them and have been for decades?
Apple has given many reasons for folks to be critical in the last 10+ years
The changes under Tim Cook have been polarizing for many
Ultimately, the last thing you want is apathy, so it's a good thing to have positive and negative feelings, particularly strong ones. It shows that people care.
Remember -- "Fan" is short for fanatic.
We get the positive and negative side of that coin.
Using myself as an example ... lately, about everything I post gets a bunch of likes, tons of dislikes, some laughs, some frowns..
There is no one consensus on anything Apple related -- not even here.
I just pass over obnoxious posts and enjoy the community of helpful Apple enthusiasts here. You can view it through whichever lens you choose.
I've seen this over-and-over with various brand web sites.
Sometimes, people use a product and LOVE it, something bad happens and the company won't fix it, and they suddenly HATE the company. Blind adoration of anything is a bit much. Being a fanatic is not a good thing.
There are also typical trolls who only seek to upset people and go to other sites to make trouble.
I sometimes wonder why people can't (fill in the blank) and it doesn't really matter. What's important is being good to each other.
Sometimes, people use a product and LOVE it, something bad happens and the company won't fix it, and they suddenly HATE the company. Blind adoration of anything is a bit much. Being a fanatic is not a good thing.
There are also typical trolls who only seek to upset people and go to other sites to make trouble.
I sometimes wonder why people can't (fill in the blank) and it doesn't really matter. What's important is being good to each other.
Every website is about traffic and clicks. If you have a website full of Apple fans, the best way to get clicks is have someone post something anti-Apple.
Sorry, but everything is about money so if letting someone post anti-Apple stuff makes the website money then it’s going to happen
Wait, I don’t really understand
Are you implying that if it weren’t for money concerns, they should only allow posts here that are in support of and/or positive about Apple?
There is nothing "toxic" about an opposing viewpoint (in and of itself). The potential problem is the reader who is looking for an echo-chamber because he or she likes getting constant affirmation from other strangers. The other aspect is the ascerbic presentation viewpoint which seeks to incite and inflame rather than express a different personal preference, which I believe is something that isn't really a problem here.
To that end, I encourage the OP to realize the site is made up of many different kinds of peoples, preferences, and opinions. Those who seek to be offended or uncomfortable outside the chamber are rarely disappointed with their own displeasure.
To that end, I encourage the OP to realize the site is made up of many different kinds of peoples, preferences, and opinions. Those who seek to be offended or uncomfortable outside the chamber are rarely disappointed with their own displeasure.
This is true.
There will always be the Apple super fans that will defend anything Apple, as well as the Apple haters that bash everything Apple, but most on the forum are in between.
I remember getting called as an "Apple defender" (or something like that), and an "Apple hater" in the same thread once. Pretty sure this it was on the Apple TV sub-forum, around the time the Apple TV 4 and tvOS was released.
I have been using Apple products since the mid 90's, and own so many Macs that I sometimes forget which ones I own. That said, I have been increasing critical of Apple over the past 12ish years with direction of some of their products. I often give constructive criticism of Apple products that I love, and sometimes see responses such as "If you hate Apple so much why don't you use Windows?", or "You just saying that because you hate Apple".
Silly stuff.
Some MR members can't handle constructive criticism of Apple, some MR members can't handle differing opinions than their own. In my mind, these two type of MR members would probably consider MR as "toxic".
I personally wouldn't consider the overall MR community "toxic", though. Just maybe a few that really tend to stand out.
I recommend the ignore feature - not being sarcastic. There's some folks who are just toxic, and more who you'll simply find baffling and annoying. Using the ignore button keeps you from seeing their posts, and will improve your experience here, as well as keeping you out of trouble that might come when you give them the reply they probably deserve. 😄
Assuming we're not talking about the trolls... I think diehard fans can seem the most hateful because they really want what they're fans of to be successful, they hate seeing things go wrong because they want to see the best out of it. And they may have the experience with what they're fans of to call out things they know don't fit their gold standard, and may have more experience than an outsider who only percieves those reactions as unfounded hate
I have come to like the way the site is run with MR policy on debate the post and not the poster philosophy.
And I find it’s both sides, fans and critics, that at times could use a chill pill. There are multiple types of questionable debating tactics that seem to present themselves:
- specific anecdotal points turned into generalizations
- speaking for the collective
- tone, condescending tone, and word games
- borderline passive aggressive insults
- direct insults
- opinions presented as facts
- calling someone a “fanboy” and then discrediting their argument thereof
- all off the fallacious debating tactics (to be fair this isn’t a formal debate website)
Some of the above are just sloppy and ignorant techniques, but the rampant use of borderline insults and condescending tones fo contribute to a toxic environment.
And I find it’s both sides, fans and critics, that at times could use a chill pill. There are multiple types of questionable debating tactics that seem to present themselves:
- specific anecdotal points turned into generalizations
- speaking for the collective
- tone, condescending tone, and word games
- borderline passive aggressive insults
- direct insults
- opinions presented as facts
- calling someone a “fanboy” and then discrediting their argument thereof
- all off the fallacious debating tactics (to be fair this isn’t a formal debate website)
Some of the above are just sloppy and ignorant techniques, but the rampant use of borderline insults and condescending tones fo contribute to a toxic environment.
The best fans complain when they're dissatisfied with the product. Not sure what to tell you.
If someone insults you, report it. Call out ad hominem attacks.
Apple does a ton of good and a ton of bad.
If someone insults you, report it. Call out ad hominem attacks.
Apple does a ton of good and a ton of bad.
Hmmm, underestimate NOT the power of the Dark Side. Haters defy reason simply for defiance's sake. Be drawn into the echo chamber, you should not. Blame the Mods, you should not. We are ALL responsible for keeping our own sides of the asteroid belt clean. Respond not to agent provocateurs. Deny haters the oxygen of Reaction Scores, for they revel in YOUR attention. Okay, who's up for LIGHT SABER PRACTICE? Nice prosthetic hand ya got there; I see the one finger is already a little worn...
The negative people are a lot more vocal than positive ones.
That's true of literally all feedback mechanisms in history
Nothing unique about that here
For every person called "fanboy", there's another called "hater". And I think things are a bit heated right now because the Vision Pro is a very divisive piece of tech, with some dedicated to it as an investment in the future, and others thinking it's the completely wrong direction for Apple to go in.
Exactly - we go through this every time Apple has a big product announcement, and the Vision Pro is uniquely divisive.
Envy, trolling, nothing else to do. Anonymity brings out the worst in people.
It's not anonymity. We once thought it was "that", but it has been studied and people can be horrendous online even with their full identity out in the open.
Toxic has become a lazy byword for stuff I disagree with. Personally I prefer diversity of opinion and I think everyone has the right to express themselves. What is definitely toxic is when society at large pressures everyone into assimilating into the hive mind for fear of upsetting the overly sensitive.
But to the point. If negativity toward Apple is increasing - and speaking for myself it definitely is - maybe we should look in Apple's direction.
But to the point. If negativity toward Apple is increasing - and speaking for myself it definitely is - maybe we should look in Apple's direction.
Why do you apparently be that disturbed if someone criticizes a manufacturer.
Are you so conditioned to take that kind of expression as a personal offense?
Macrumors is a site where users of Apple's products exchange their experience. Good or bad. Equally.
I disagree. Toxic is when general hyperbole, passive-aggressive forum behaviors, condescending posts, word games and the like become the norm rather than civil discussion.
I disagree, that's not it either. This has little to do with society and everything to do with how people interact with one another as I said above.
Times change, people change and companies change. If Apple has become a company people don't want to support there are alternatives. On the other hand, I can only guess, Apple does not get it's requirements from fan sites such as this, as influential as MacRumors is on the internet. There are way too many conflicting opinions about everything Apple to glean a clear direction. Mushrooms clouds, such as, "Stolen Device Protection", seem to be catalysts for change. Maybe the feedback app as well.
You’d be surprised how many Apple folks wade these, and similar, waters.
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