MacRumors Censorship

Discussion in 'Site and Forum Feedback' started by jonbravo77, Oct 24, 2008.

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  1. jonbravo77 macrumors 6502a

    jonbravo77

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    Feb 20, 2008
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    #1
    This will probably get me kicked from the site and quite frankly I don't care. I was engaged in the current topic at hand "Apple publicly Against California Prop 8" and I'm guessing Blue Velvet one of or the Moderator for the thread did not like what I was saying or something because I found that most if not all of my posts were removed from the thread.

    I didn't realize that censorship was ok. Well with the current state of the country I guess I am not surprised. Anyway, I did not donate to MacRumors to be censored. But I do put blame on myself. I should have just stayed with the topics I came here for, Mac related stuff.

    Anyway, that's it for me...
     
  2. Blue Velvet Moderator emeritus

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2004
    #2
    Out of six posts of yours in that thread, two of them were deleted, one of which was about censorship. I sent you a PM clearly explaining why the other was deleted after you asked.
     
  3. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2002
    Location:
    Republic of Ukistan
    #3
    Your work tonight has been above and beyond the call of duty, BV.
     
  4. GGJstudios macrumors Westmere

    GGJstudios

    Joined:
    May 16, 2008
    #4
    If you take the time to read and adhere to the Forum Rules and FAQ, it's doubtful that any of your posts would be deleted. The moderators on this forum are fair and unbiased. If any post is deleted, it's not for censorship; it's for violating forum rules.
     
  5. cantthinkofone macrumors 65816

    cantthinkofone

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2004
    Location:
    Missouri, USA
    #5
    lol :rolleyes::D

    Oh buddy. Yea this crazy america, censoring stuff left and right.

    There are rules here. You broke them. Thats not called censorship, thats called up holding the law of the land. In this case, macrumors.
     
  6. jonbravo77 thread starter macrumors 6502a

    jonbravo77

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2008
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    #6
    Well, it was a few more than 2 posts that were deleted. But since you have taken away any proof of that I have no leg to stand on..

    Fair, maybe. Unbiased, far from the truth.
     
  7. GGJstudios macrumors Westmere

    GGJstudios

    Joined:
    May 16, 2008
    #7
    I hope you'll forgive me if I believe the mods who have been here a long time and have demonstrated their attitudes, over someone relatively new, who has already violated forum rules.
     
  8. JML42691 macrumors 68020

    JML42691

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2007
    #8
    I highly doubt that anything was done out of censorship. BV already explained why your post was deleted, and it appears that all of the explanations that you needed were given, and any questions that you may have should be handled only by PMs, and not by forum posts. And this is already a very sensitive issue, and strong moderating is obviously needed in a thread with a nature like that.

    It isn't censorship, any post deleted obviously violated some forum rule, which you agreed to. Any moderator would be stupid to act out beyond the allotted room for discretion when it comes to deleting posts and giving infraction points. If they were to do so, they would most certainly lose their moderating privileges, and their reputation would also be compromised.
     
  9. Blue Velvet Moderator emeritus

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2004
    #9
    I can see, review and count your deleted posts.

    What I'm going to do now is to close this thread, not because I'm censoring you, but because we'd prefer that you take up issues of moderating privately and behind the scenes.

    http://guides.macrumors.com/Help:Forum_Rules#Warnings_and_Bannings


    Finally, none of this will get you kicked from the site. We welcome all feedback where it's helpful. :)
     
  10. Doctor Q Administrator

    Doctor Q

    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2002
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    #10
    I double-checked this myself. Exactly two posts of yours were deleted from the thread. One was protesting an inappropriate post made by someone else. We agreed and deleted the offending post. In such cases, we also delete posts that quote the offending posts to complain about it.

    The other post of yours was complaining about your first post being deleted. You are welcome to ask about deleted posts by contacting us privately, or bringing up issues about deleted post policies here publicly in the Feedback forum, but we don't leave complaints about moderation in the threads themselves since they can't be answered personally without being off-topic to the thread.

    That thread took quite a bit of moderation, all of which was based on forum rules and none of which was based on promoting or suppressing opinions on either side of the issue.
     
  11. TheAnswer macrumors 68030

    TheAnswer

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2002
    Location:
    Orange County, CA
    #11
    Actually, they are fair and unbiased. From what I've seen through the years, they don't hesitate to enforce the forum rules, no matter if the moderator might happen to agree with the poster on a particular issue or not.

    (and if it helps, this comment is coming from someone who is thankful that at least two of my own posts were deleted in the past couple days).
     
  12. NC MacGuy macrumors 603

    NC MacGuy

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2005
    Location:
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    #12
    Absolutely! I was watching and for a fair chunk of time she was moderating single handed. Quick judgement calls and decisions had to be made - not easy as fast as those posts were hitting.

    No one likes having posts deleted but most mods try and do the best they can.

    Glad to see BV back. She was sorely missed by me and I'm certain many others.
     
  13. Dejavu macrumors regular

    Dejavu

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2008
    #13
    But the post you're referencing is regarding the moderation of the aforementioned topic and has nothing to do with moderation "through the years".

    I haven't following the thread in question, but I can tell you when you have a moderator who starts political topics, and then moderates other political topics, there will be bias! In an ideal situation, volunteers who are chosen to become moderators are well-advised to stay away from political discussions so as not to seem biased when they begin moderating political content.

    There should be a moderator "rule of conduct" for MacRumors, as I have seen the same moderator in the center of other disputes where they moderate topics which they participate in!
     
  14. MacNut macrumors Core

    MacNut

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2002
    Location:
    CT
    #14
    That was also one of those unusual threads that catches fire really quick and will burn down a city block if not brought under control. It won't take long for post casualties. Better to have posts get deleted than to get banned.
     
  15. Randman macrumors 65816

    Randman

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2008
    Location:
    Jacksonville, Fla
    #15
    In Soviet Russia, moderated posts delete YOU!
     
  16. MrSmith macrumors 68040

    MrSmith

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2003
    #16
    I read through a lot of the thread and took time to compose a well thought out message...then discovered the bugger had been closed.

    There, got that off my chest.
     
  17. Blue Velvet Moderator emeritus

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2004
    #17
    Contrary to what people saw, there were at least three or four moderators working through that thread so props to them too. It was a group effort but it was me who perhaps was a little more visible only because I was also posting in it. We decided to close it in the end because it was taking a lot of everybody's time.
     
  18. Doctor Q Administrator

    Doctor Q

    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2002
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    #18
    Each moderator has his or her personal opinions on political issues and is welcome to express them, as any other member would. At the same time, they know their volunteer job as a moderator requires them to enforce forum rules without regard to the political opinions expressed in posts. They work as a team, not in isolation, and every action is subject to review.

    Given the charged topic yesterday, we planned in advance, had multiple moderators watching the thread all afternoon/evening, and made an extra effort to moderate quickly and fairly. Every single post was reviewed by 2 or more moderators, usually more.

    That wasn't the case, even though some members had that impression. However, since the moderators don't seek personal credit for the teams efforts, it's not a problem that some of them worked overtime yesterday without being perceived at all.

    Disallowing our volunteers from participating in discussions wouldn't change the possibility of bias, just the possibility of perception of bias. Whether or not they post their opinion, they could be tempted to moderate in a way that favors some opinions over the others. And why don't they? Because they treat their assignments professionally, because they don't act in isolation, because we are constantly reviewing how we're doing, and because the moderators don't even agree among themselves on every political issue.

    There is, but it does not require them to keep their opinions to themselves. Our moderation guidelines are especially important when topics are controversial, and each moderator has to observe them while moderating, whether or not they join the discussion.

    If your comments are about the ballot measure or the controversies involved, there are other threads in the Politics, Religion, Social Issues forum that you can post in, and you can start new threads as you see fit. We closed only the thread that was tied to the news story, since it required constant oversight and the discussion had turned away from the Apple-related part of the news story.
     
  19. NC MacGuy macrumors 603

    NC MacGuy

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2005
    Location:
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    #19
    ^^^ Kudos to you too, Q!

    You were there quite a bit also.

    I only judge by monitoring the forum leaders tab when it gets hairy to see who deserves their paycheck....;) and I know that U.S. MR mods are not in the 95% who will get an alleged tax cut.:D
     
  20. Eric5h5 macrumors 68020

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2004
    #20
    It's a privately-owned forum...of course "censorship" is OK. You're free to say what you want elsewhere, or start your own site in the worst case. If you were prevented from doing that, then it would be censorship. Free speech does not mean the right to do whatever you want on other people's property.

    --Eric
     
  21. jonbravo77 thread starter macrumors 6502a

    jonbravo77

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2008
    Location:
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    #21
    Sorry to chime in again, but I find it interesting that this thread was closed by BV and now it is back open. Just an observation.
     
  22. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2002
    Location:
    Republic of Ukistan
    #22
    The Mods move in mysterious ways their wonders to perform. Just behave yourself in accordance with the Forum Rules, OK?
     
  23. Blue Velvet Moderator emeritus

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2004
    #23

    I guess Q felt that he had to address some of your points and clear up some misconceptions that others may have had, without being fully aware of the later second round of PMs we exchanged last night.

    I also received PMs from other forum members about the notion of free speech and the perception of censorship, but I shall leave this discussion to others with this note from the forum rules:

     
  24. synth3tik macrumors 68040

    synth3tik

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2006
    Location:
    Minneapolis, MN
    #24
    I think the best way to look at it is this.

    Yes MR is a forum open to the public, however it is privately owned. Secondly, We can not adversely effect others on the forum. I am speaking generally here. I do not know what mentioned posts were referring to, only that they just happened to be in a thread about prop 8.

    A little over a year ago I got myself into some trouble (inadvertently made an insinuation) and I learned my lesson. 3 days with out MR drove me crazy. I think the deletion of a post or two could save a person from more sever consequences and can make the forums friendly to all.

    Again I do not know what said posts were about, just speaking generally.
     
  25. MacNut macrumors Core

    MacNut

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2002
    Location:
    CT
    #25
    Free speech does not mean you have the right to insult or bad mouth other members. That is why the mods delete posts or close threads. It has nothing to do with censorship. Behave yourself and the mods won't come after you.:cool:
     
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