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I have greatly calmed down from the situation yesterday. And I also apologized to BV for the grief I caused. I get hot pretty fast and you all are very right. And I do understand that it was for the best that my posts got deleted.

And I am not trying to cause anymore grief, was just an observation that this thread was closed for obvious reasons that was stated quit well by BV but it is now back open for discussion..
 
I have greatly calmed down from the situation yesterday. And I also apologized to BV for the grief I caused. I get hot pretty fast and you all are very right. And I do understand that it was for the best that my posts got deleted.

And I am not trying to cause anymore grief, was just an observation that this thread was closed for obvious reasons that was stated quit well by BV but it is now back open for discussion..

It's OK, man. We all get posts deleted at one point or another. And we all get a little too worked up sometimes.
 
I don't really care, about the topic, but why do you run such topic's, or anything else for that matter, that isn't Mac related? I mean, just saying, why don't we keep it just Mac, and the political / controversial stuff to other places?
I mean this IS MAC Rumors. If I want to chime in on other topics I go elsewhere to do it. Just seem the added moderation is such a waste of everyones time, for a topic that doesn't belong here. BTW, THIS is one of the best run forums out there, and i have no problem over the moderation of it at all :)
 
Because Apple news isn't enough to absorb the time we have more important things to do but can't be bothered.
 
Most forums have an "Off topic" area just so the other forms stay on track. Other wise, there would be a lot more closing/deleting threads that weren't on topic.
 
I don't really care, about the topic, but why do you run such topic's, or anything else for that matter, that isn't Mac related?
The focus of MacRumors is Apple, not just Macintoshes, and news, not just rumors. Stories about Apple in the business, legal, and political worlds and its efforts for social causes can be as newsworthy as hardware and software news. For example, see SEC To Re-Investigate Jobs?, RED iPod Nano Released (support for The Global Fund), Norway To Pressure Apple To Change iTunes EULA?, Al Gore Joins Apple's Board, and Apple Donates $1 Million, iBooks To Rescue Worker Families.

Such topics can generate heated debate, so we do our best to allow discussions while keeping them from becoming flamefests and without taking more of our moderators' time than we can provide. It certainly is easier to manage a news story such as Apple Releases AirPort Extreme Update where there's not much to discuss!
 
Although I agree that there was nothing really bad done here, if a rule is made that censors speech, it's called censorship.

This was very clearly censorship, regardless if it was according to MacRumors' rules or not. They have that right, we all agree to the terms and conditions in order to register.

I'm not saying it was wrong, in fact it seemed that the the person complaining about it was actually supported by the moderators, in the fact that his complaint about the other person's post was recognized and appropriate action was taken. I do understand though how he could've misinterpreted the action and gotten upset.

Usually in cases like this you should simply stop, move on to something else, sleep on it, and check it again in the morning with fresh eyes.

To be clear, I am not against censorship, though I prefer thoughtful SELF-censorship in any event.

As for Prop 8... :D
 
My post that was just removed was not censored. But it was removed with bias and most definitely unfairly.
 
Please feel free to repeat the exact contents of that post to one of our admins using the Contact Us form, thanks.

Well, if you hadn't deleted the entire post because you didn't like one sentence of the 3 paragraph post it wouldn't be necessary to do that.

I honestly didn't expect you to delete a post that supported the website just because I said that it was "possible" that a moderator was biased, so I didn't save my post for posterity.
 
Posting questions/complaints about specific cases of moderation in the forums is frowned upon because they are not relevant to others and we can be more frank communicating in private.

If you use Private Messages or email to contact a moderator about a moderation issue, you may be directed to send it again via the Contact Form, because this ensures proper review and accountability and because the moderators work as a team. Moderation is not personal; don't make it so.

https://macrumors.zendesk.com/hc/en-us#Moderation
 
But the post you're referencing is regarding the moderation of the aforementioned topic and has nothing to do with moderation "through the years".

I haven't following the thread in question, but I can tell you when you have a moderator who starts political topics, and then moderates other political topics, there will be bias! In an ideal situation, volunteers who are chosen to become moderators are well-advised to stay away from political discussions so as not to seem biased when they begin moderating political content.

There should be a moderator "rule of conduct" for MacRumors, as I have seen the same moderator in the center of other disputes where they moderate topics which they participate in!
Agree.

Each moderator has his or her personal opinions on political issues and is welcome to express them, as any other member would. At the same time, they know their volunteer job as a moderator requires them to enforce forum rules without regard to the political opinions expressed in posts. They work as a team, not in isolation, and every action is subject to review.

Given the charged topic yesterday, we planned in advance, had multiple moderators watching the thread all afternoon/evening, and made an extra effort to moderate quickly and fairly. Every single post was reviewed by 2 or more moderators, usually more.

That wasn't the case, even though some members had that impression. However, since the moderators don't seek personal credit for the teams efforts, it's not a problem that some of them worked overtime yesterday without being perceived at all.

Disallowing our volunteers from participating in discussions wouldn't change the possibility of bias, just the possibility of perception of bias. Whether or not they post their opinion, they could be tempted to moderate in a way that favors some opinions over the others. And why don't they? Because they treat their assignments professionally, because they don't act in isolation, because we are constantly reviewing how we're doing, and because the moderators don't even agree among themselves on every political issue.

There is, but it does not require them to keep their opinions to themselves. Our moderation guidelines are especially important when topics are controversial, and each moderator has to observe them while moderating, whether or not they join the discussion.

If your comments are about the ballot measure or the controversies involved, there are other threads in the Politics, Religion, Social Issues forum that you can post in, and you can start new threads as you see fit. We closed only the thread that was tied to the news story, since it required constant oversight and the discussion had turned away from the Apple-related part of the news story.
Thanks for the info Dr. Q.

Again, it's all about perceptions. I humbly suggest that moderators do not moderate and post in emotionally charged threads.

Rather I would suggest that moderators act as referees and control the match. :)

Otherwise, when a moderator is making charged comments, then appears to delete posts, regardless of the review process, it will create the perception of censorship or unfair moderating.

Yes MR is a forum open to the public, however it is privately owned.
Yep, and arn sets the rules.

I have greatly calmed down from the situation yesterday. And I also apologized to BV for the grief I caused. I get hot pretty fast and you all are very right. And I do understand that it was for the best that my posts got deleted.

And I am not trying to cause anymore grief, was just an observation that this thread was closed for obvious reasons that was stated quit well by BV but it is now back open for discussion..
It is easy to get into heated discussion on the PRSI area. After all, the topics at hand are just the type that get folks energized. :)

It's OK, man. We all get posts deleted at one point or another. And we all get a little too worked up sometimes.
Agree. Agree.

Been there as well.

Such topics can generate heated debate, so we do our best to allow discussions while keeping them from becoming flamefests and without taking more of our moderators' time than we can provide.
MR is one of the best moderated sites that I have been a member or visited.

This brings back memories of one that I moderated before. This group also included face to face meetings. Needless to say, there were some contentious issues at the meeting.

My post that was just removed was not censored. But it was removed with bias and most definitely unfairly.
Interesting.

I was about ready to reply to BV's retort in a post, but then the post disappeared.

Anyhow, whether there is bias or not, the perception is what counts. We all know that the perception is not always correct but it is still hard to get over that hump at times.

Publicly I would like to say that over the years, BV has done a good job at moderating hard threads. No doubt about that! I commend her for her work on MR and consider her to be fair. Unfortunately, she was the visible moderator in that particular thread, so everything seems to point to her. Nature of the beast I guess. Again, maybe my suggestions above might help things.

On a side note, I have facilitated many high level, and very emotional, conferences. The facilitator must remain outside of the discussion if at all possible so the facilitator is perceived as having no desired outcome. That is a challenge needless to say. Reminds me of the challenge to the moderators on the PRSI forum! :)
 
Please feel free to repeat the exact contents of that post to one of our admins using the Contact Us form, thanks.
Aren't moderators on MacRumors supposed to soft-delete posts, so I don't see the point of asking him to repost his deleted post in a contact form. As if everybody keeps copies of their posts. :rolleyes:
 
Aren't moderators on MacRumors supposed to soft-delete posts, so I don't see the point of asking him to repost his deleted post in a contact form. As if everybody keeps copies of their posts. :rolleyes:
BV was suggesting a way in which the poster can escalate their supposed issue should they feel so inclined.

I don't know why some people try so hard to cause problems with moderators. The moderation here is more than fair.
 
MR's PRSI is biased, it's a fact. Post there at your own risk. Better yet, stay out and post in the other threads. The far left has become (and in some ways surpassed) the far right when it pertains to censorship.

Matte or glossy? Debate over, glossy wins!

A centrists observation.
 
BV was suggesting a way in which the poster can escalate their supposed issue should they feel so inclined.

I don't know why some people try so hard to cause problems with moderators. The moderation here is more than fair.

I have to disagree with you. "Fair" is a relative term. The fact that my prior post was removed even though it completely supported macrumors in every way is proof of that. The only negative statement in my entire post was that it is "possible" for a moderator to have been unfair and "probable" that a moderator was "biased". The vast majority of my post was complete and shining support for macrumors side of the argument.

I would venture to say that if YOU had posted my post verbatim it would not have been removed. Therefore, with all good reason, YOU feel the moderation is fair.

To repeat the last line of my post that was removed. "If you don't like the moderation you don't have to come back." Not exactly what you would expect in a post that was removed, eh? But I still stand by it. Just as I stand by my statement that bias and "unfair" treatment most certainly exists. The actions this morning are perfect proof of my statement.
 
Just want to add another voice of support for the moderators, and especially BV. I have had my posts deleted by BV in the past as well as by Doctor Q. (maybe others too)

Law enforcement officers will tell you the worst thing to try and do is to intervene in a domestic dispute. Trying to moderate two people who are emotionally charged often results in them turning on the peace officer.

It is a thankless job, and it often frustrates and makes them weary I'm sure. But I am grateful they are here. I would hate to see where some of the threads would have gone without them.

Woof, Woof - Dawg
pawprint.gif
 
Maybe a lack of understanding of the process?
Maybe, or maybe people just randomly get a complete bee in their bonnet over nothing, and just won't drop it. They go on, and on, and on, other people that fancy a dig put their oar in and things begin to spiral rapidly south.

It's pointless, it really is.

Before anyone decides to bitch at me, I'm an ex mod. So don't waste your breath.
 
Just want to add another voice of support for the moderators, and especially BV. I have had my posts deleted by BV in the past as well as by Doctor Q. (maybe others too)

Law enforcement officers will tell you the worst thing to try and do is to intervene in a domestic dispute. Trying to moderate two people who are emotionally charged often results in them turning on the peace officer.

It is a thankless job, and it often frustrates and makes them weary I'm sure. But I am grateful they are here. I would hate to see where some of the threads would have gone without them.
I think anybody who has posted for a long time on MR has been "spanked" by a moderator at least once or twice.

Moderators are busy and it is a voluntary responsibility. Some are curt in their comments. Others are more verbose and gentle. Either way, I feel like I've been sent to the Principal's office. ;)

The key is to move on and not dwell on the bumps in the road. And if you think that you've been treated unfairly, use the techniques mentioned before hand in this thread for resolution.
 
Have a looksy around and experience some of the moderation at other websites. Macrumors moderators are a breath of fresh air compared to the crap you deal with elsewhere. This is a remarkable site it terms of operation, fairness and the time the volunteers put into it.

Hug it out!
 
Again, it's all about perceptions. I humbly suggest that moderators do not moderate and post in emotionally charged threads.


Any thread can get emotionally charged. Moderating here is done on an entirely voluntary basis; we're not paid professionals. So, restricting our involvement in areas of our own interest is counterproductive to our own long-term engagement. Perception is entirely in the eyes of the viewer; we can't reasonably accommodate everybody's individual perceptions in shaping our actions.

Coming back to the initial reasons for this thread, posts were removed that broke forum rules. I was contacted by the forum member and provided an explanation why they were removed. Then, this thread was created afterwards, bringing it all out in the public. Q reviewed all modding decisions and found no evidence of bias and posted here. After that, I was then contacted again by the person in question who apologised to me.

None of the moderators go out of their way to be biased; it's not what drives us and it's too time-consuming. People sometimes imagine we carry grudges and pursue our own personal vendettas, but if that were so, we wouldn't be doing the job. I am not responsible for the perceptions of others because, all too often, they are not the ones in full possession of the facts. Nor are they often overly familiar with the forum rules.

We welcome site feedback through the appropriate channels. But what I'm not going to do is to permit public criticism of a specific moderator, any moderator, in a thread such as this. And all of my colleagues would have done the same thing.

Just one final note about the PRSI forum. The majority of regular posters there often express a 'liberal' view and will often mercilessly dissect an opposing argument. However, this does not make the forum or the moderation of it biased. Unfortunately, all too often and entirely through their own actions, those with a conservative view fall foul of the forum rules and also the specific stickied rules of the PRSI forum, and so they end up being moderated in some way.
 
Have a looksy around and experience some of the moderation at other websites. Macrumors moderators are a breath of fresh air compared to the crap you deal with elsewhere. This is a remarkable site it terms of operation, fairness and the time the volunteers put into it
True.

Of course our moderators are human as well, and may get a little over zealous at times. Usually a PM or a post report will enable an explanation or clarification that clears the air. :)
 
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