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One word. BITWARDEN.

One word: Privacy.

See, You run into problems when running something like password managers as a cloud service, and that is for two major reasons, all of which rely on one problem, which is that you've willingly given your data to them. Why is that a problem? Here you go:
  1. Should that company hosting that password manager service close up shop, The data you have uploaded to their service (read: your passwords) is now their data. They own it, not you. They can easily close up shop, leaving you no access to your passwords, and are free to do with that data whatever they wish. They could destroy it. They could archive it. They could - if they have the ability to open your vaults - take your credentials, and log in to your sites as you and do whatever they want, as you. You wouldn't have any say in what they do until needing to clean up what damage they may have done as you as you prove that their actions are fraudulent.

    That's a nasty mess and potential consequence one gets when they sacrifice privacy for convenience.

  2. Should, for any reason (and I'm talking in the US here; check local municipalities for any equivalent laws) you come under any reasons for investigation, if your data (read: your passwords) were truly in your possession, your 4th Amendment rights would require the government investigating you to obtain a warrant to seize your data. However, 3rd parties are not privy or pursuant to that requirement. All that the government - let alone any Clerk of the Court - needs to do is simply obtain a subpoena. The problem with that: any and every lawyer is a Clerk of the Court. They can issue and request their own subpoena, get a judge or magistrate to sign it, and serve it, which would make those password manager services be compelled to hand over your data, with or without your knowledge or consent.
All of that becomes a major problem, because one chooses the convenience of storing their passwords - let alone any data - in a cloud based service.

I can understand storing data that is effectively harmless in any cloud-based service because of convenience. But something as sensitive as passwords, let alone any other PCI, PHI, PII, or HIPAA-compliant data in those services? Absolutely not.

Now, Bitwarden primarily keeps your information in the cloud, but does offer you the ability to host standalone vaults, but you have to build the server to host it. Most either don't know how to, or don't want to be bothered with doing it because convenience over privacy, and that is a major concern that people overlook.

I'm still using the old 1Password 6 which was sold as "pay once, keep it forever".

So the big question is can people like me get this deal and then simply move all of the data over to 1Password without any hiccups? I wouldn't mind upgrading and paying for this service since I honestly couldn't live without 1Password.

You could, but it would come at a cost. Starting with 1Password 8, you will no longer be able to keep your data in a standalone vault. All of your data has to go not only up to a subscription-based service, but must be stored on 1Password's service. No other place but theirs. 1Password 7 is the last version of 1Password that supports standalone vaults. However, you can no purchase a 1Password 7 license anymore, because they have shut down the servers provisioning those, effectively forcing everyone to go to their subscription model.

I found that out the hard way in trying to jump to 1Password 7 before 1Password 8 came out. If you don't have a license, the application leaves your vault in read-only mode, with no way to get full access to it without paying for a subscription. Even reverting back to 1Password 6 after that still left my vault in read-only mode. I ended up going full monty on my Mac and had to Time Machine restore it to get it back to where it was prior to trying to upgrade. So if you're using 1Password 6, you're stuck on it forever.. and even forever comes at a cost.

1Password 6, as it is an Intel binary, will only work on Intel Macs, or Silicon Macs as long as Rosetta 2 is supported. Once Rosetta 2 goes away, 1Password 6 will not work on the version of MacOS that does not support Rosetta 2.

What happens to your passwords if you stop the subscription?

Good question. You obviously will not have access to any of your data that you store there, but they also do not answer the question of what they will do with your data after you end your subscription. That has been the other issue everyone has had with 1Password with going to the model they are now using.

BL.
 
Have you tried 1Password 8 yet? The QR code reader is gone from the app (only works in the browser extension), plus it's Electron and just has a slew of usability issues.

Literally up until August I constantly sang 1Password praises and recommended it to everyone I could. Not any more, and I regret those recommendations immensely. I've never seen a company as beloved as AgileBits fall from grace as quickly and drastically as they have over the past few months.

It really is a shame. I get they want to make more money off us, but 1Password 7 works just perfectly for me as a single user, and my wife as a single user. I don't need the families nonsense. There's absolutely nothing of value there for me. As soon as 1Password is deprecated enough to not be functional for me, I'll be going elsewhere. It's sad because up till recently 1Password was the gold standard.
 
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Sure, iCloud keychain is adequate if you're only saving passwords and you exclusively use the Apple environment,

1Password does a bunch more.

Though with the changes to subscription only model they've lost me as a customer. I'll use my v7 as long as it'll work but then will need to transition to a different platform.
I use keychain for the basic features like storing u/n p/w and authentication code generation.

But I also use it to store PIN codes, 1 time code lists, recovery codes, pass phrases, even the r-l-r-l-r tumbler numbers for a traditional safe.

Keychain isn’t specifically designed for these things but if one manipulates it, it works perfectly for them without interfering with its basic authentication functionality or being hard to use for these extra functions.

Things like credit cards and and their related codes can be stored in safari Autofill.

These things together do all that I need.
 
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One word: Privacy.

See, You run into problems when running something like password managers as a cloud service, and that is for two major reasons, all of which rely on one problem, which is that you've willingly given your data to them. Why is that a problem? Here you go:
  1. Should that company hosting that password manager service close up shop, The data you have uploaded to their service (read: your passwords) is now their data. They own it, not you. They can easily close up shop, leaving you no access to your passwords, and are free to do with that data whatever they wish. They could destroy it. They could archive it. They could - if they have the ability to open your vaults - take your credentials, and log in to your sites as you and do whatever they want, as you. You wouldn't have any say in what they do until needing to clean up what damage they may have done as you as you prove that their actions are fraudulent.

    That's a nasty mess and potential consequence one gets when they sacrifice privacy for convenience.

  2. Should, for any reason (and I'm talking in the US here; check local municipalities for any equivalent laws) you come under any reasons for investigation, if your data (read: your passwords) were truly in your possession, your 4th Amendment rights would require the government investigating you to obtain a warrant to seize your data. However, 3rd parties are not privy or pursuant to that requirement. All that the government - let alone any Clerk of the Court - needs to do is simply obtain a subpoena. The problem with that: any and every lawyer is a Clerk of the Court. They can issue and request their own subpoena, get a judge or magistrate to sign it, and serve it, which would make those password manager services be compelled to hand over your data, with or without your knowledge or consent.
All of that becomes a major problem, because one chooses the convenience of storing their passwords - let alone any data - in a cloud based service.

I can understand storing data that is effectively harmless in any cloud-based service because of convenience. But something as sensitive as passwords, let alone any other PCI, PHI, PII, or HIPAA-compliant data in those services? Absolutely not.

Now, Bitwarden primarily keeps your information in the cloud, but does offer you the ability to host standalone vaults, but you have to build the server to host it. Most either don't know how to, or don't want to be bothered with doing it because convenience over privacy, and that is a major concern that people overlook.



You could, but it would come at a cost. Starting with 1Password 8, you will no longer be able to keep your data in a standalone vault. All of your data has to go not only up to a subscription-based service, but must be stored on 1Password's service. No other place but theirs. 1Password 7 is the last version of 1Password that supports standalone vaults. However, you can no purchase a 1Password 7 license anymore, because they have shut down the servers provisioning those, effectively forcing everyone to go to their subscription model.

I found that out the hard way in trying to jump to 1Password 7 before 1Password 8 came out. If you don't have a license, the application leaves your vault in read-only mode, with no way to get full access to it without paying for a subscription. Even reverting back to 1Password 6 after that still left my vault in read-only mode. I ended up going full monty on my Mac and had to Time Machine restore it to get it back to where it was prior to trying to upgrade. So if you're using 1Password 6, you're stuck on it forever.. and even forever comes at a cost.

1Password 6, as it is an Intel binary, will only work on Intel Macs, or Silicon Macs as long as Rosetta 2 is supported. Once Rosetta 2 goes away, 1Password 6 will not work on the version of MacOS that does not support Rosetta 2.



Good question. You obviously will not have access to any of your data that you store there, but they also do not answer the question of what they will do with your data after you end your subscription. That has been the other issue everyone has had with 1Password with going to the model they are now using.

BL.
Where is the 1Password license for version 7 located? I need to make 100 backups of this right now..

*edit*

Think I found it. It's only 698 bytes big. Is that right?
 
Where is the 1Password license for version 7 located? I need to make 100 backups of this right now..

*edit*

Think I found it. It's only 698 bytes big. Is that right?

Good question. I was never able to upgrade to 1Password 7. In my defense, I purchased 1Password 6 from the App Store and not directly from AgileBits, so if you got it directly from AB, back up that license key as many times as you can and make sure you can find it! 1Password 7 does have a Silicon version, if not a universal binary, so if you have it and that license key, you're good for as long as you want to use it, plus don't have to worry about when Intel support is dropped. That's the sweet spot, as you'll have 1Password, plus standalone vaults.

BL.
 
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Screen Shot 2021-12-16 at 3.56.05 PM.png
 
Reasons I stick with 1password
1) I share all my passwords with my wife. This isn’t possible with iCloud Keychain as each account is separate.
2) All the additional items I can save in 1password including adding custom fields for every login (security questions and answers) and secure documents like copies of drivers license or passport.
3) With family plan ends up being only $1 a month per account which is cheap enough for all my family to keep using.
4) maybe iCloud does this but 1password shows me if sites have been compromised, reused passwords, poor passwords, and other security alerts like those.
The thing is the rental model becomes expensive if you are young and single. I would have to find a few other people to share the account with in order to take advantage of that. It becomes too much work.
 
The thing is the rental model becomes expensive if you are young and single. I would have to find a few other people to share the account with in order to take advantage of that. It becomes too much work.

I tend to think about it this way. Even with a sale, or even at regular price, people have argued that it is stingy to not spend the money for the subscription. However, that subscription would be roughly $60/year. I bought 1Password when 1Password 3 was out, and had a stable, free upgrade path to 1Password 6.

1Password 3 came out in 2013, which I purchased it for $40 at that time. If I spent $60/year for how long I've had 1Password (8 years), 60 * 8 = $480.

$480 versus $40. We see where the problem lies with subscription models. When amortized out for a given period, there is a point where it becomes MORE expensive than the standalone offering. That is where the problem lies.

BL.
 
Why use an expensive app when iCloud Keychain is free and works so well. Especially now when we also can store 2FA-codes in Keychain.
Because while I use Apple devices primarily, I also use multiple Linux and Windows machines and iCloud Keychain does not support this.

I've been using 1password for years and the functionality is far superior to iCloud Keychain too.
 
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Because while I use Apple devices primarily, I also use multiple Linux and Windows machines and iCloud Keychain does not support this.

I've been using 1password for years and the functionality is far superior to iCloud Keychain too.
I only Remote Desktop to my windows machine for certain work, so I can just copy the password over. For linux machines, they are in docker or can be reached via SSH, again, I can just copy the password.
 
I tend to think about it this way. Even with a sale, or even at regular price, people have argued that it is stingy to not spend the money for the subscription. However, that subscription would be roughly $60/year. I bought 1Password when 1Password 3 was out, and had a stable, free upgrade path to 1Password 6.

1Password 3 came out in 2013, which I purchased it for $40 at that time. If I spent $60/year for how long I've had 1Password (8 years), 60 * 8 = $480.

$480 versus $40. We see where the problem lies with subscription models. When amortized out for a given period, there is a point where it becomes MORE expensive than the standalone offering. That is where the problem lies.

BL.
Another problem with the subscription model is that they no longer have the urgency and pressure to innovate and make groundbreaking products to incentivize users to upgrade. So, we are just paying their retirement.
 
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What happens to your passwords if you stop the subscription?
They become read-only, and you have to pay to use it again. They do not promise or disclose for how long they will keep your data after you end your subscription.
 
You can share your iCloud Keychain passwords securely between family members?
I mean if he is a family member I can give him the password so he can save it himself.....in his keychain...

How many time do you "re share" the same password?

i give my brother my wifi pass and some logins, he saves them in his keychain and done, only shared once.
 
I tend to think about it this way. Even with a sale, or even at regular price, people have argued that it is stingy to not spend the money for the subscription. However, that subscription would be roughly $60/year. I bought 1Password when 1Password 3 was out, and had a stable, free upgrade path to 1Password 6.

1Password 3 came out in 2013, which I purchased it for $40 at that time. If I spent $60/year for how long I've had 1Password (8 years), 60 * 8 = $480.

$480 versus $40. We see where the problem lies with subscription models. When amortized out for a given period, there is a point where it becomes MORE expensive than the standalone offering. That is where the problem lies.

BL.
I get your point, but then every year you will then buy the new version, so you're doing the same.

It's a case of commercials. Users nowadays demand much more and that's expensive. Traditional software models don't work for small software houses and this is a problem that subscriptions resolve.

Think about it. You pay $40 and you're happy with that over the next 8 years. You've literally given a company just $5 a year for what is a quality product.

Let's break this down further. A small software house may sell 100k copies of their software a year, so that's just $500,000 a year. Not bad; but then you have to take into account wages....(quality devs are expensive, so knock off at least $300,000). You're now down to $200k per year. Not so bad.

But guess what, you have costs to pay. Rent, hardware, infrastructure, marketing, etc....that'll easily wipe out the other $200k if you are lucky, so now you are literally breaking even. Zero profit.

Nobody sees the true cost of developing software unless you do it yourself. I get it's expensive, but good things don't come for free.

If the software is quality, I fully support subscriptions.

Currently, I have:

- Adobe Photography 1TB (which is excellent)
- 1Password Family
- iCloud One
- Office 365 Family

I use these daily and they are worth every penny.
 
Another problem with the subscription model is that they no longer have the urgency and pressure to innovate and make groundbreaking products to incentivize users to upgrade. So, we are just paying their retirement.
Actually, 1Password has been doing a lot of upgrades. One of to reasons why I don’t mind paying them.
 
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I get your point, but then every year you will then buy the new version, so you're doing the same.

Except one needn't buy the new version every year - I upgraded to 1password v7 in late 2018 and it's still doing what I need it to do.

Another downside to the subscription software is they have you over a barrel if a new version makes changes you dislike/disagree with. Such as eliminating locally-stored vaults, or forcing cloud vault storage to be on *their* servers rather than the platform you prefer. Then instead of just standing pat with the prior version you're paying a subscription fee to keep using the old software.
 
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My problem w/ Keychain is that it no longer syncs across my devices. And I can't turn it off. Apple has been NO help, but if someone here has a solution......
 
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