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MacRumors forum civility has gone downhill
- Thread starter satchmo
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I can't really speak to what happened there as I did not see your posts before they were removed. My only thought on the matter is that it happed because it was specifically related to a moderation decision, in this case a decision not to moderate the post you wanted to reference? I don't know, just a guess.
IMO my request is no different than this example and therefore should be ok:
Member A: Member B hates the iphone notch
Member B: I never said that, please reference where I said that
I can't see why this violates any rules but I could be wrong.
Yet you had no issue when others openly linked to and suggested that members here join there?
This is the feedback forum for MacRumors, if one wants to promote another forum is this the place to do it?
I wouldn’t risk it. SFF is not the place for that kind of argument regardless.
The MR management cannot do anything about another website. So complaining about it here will have no effect. I’m not sure it breaks any rules, but it also is unlikely to yield results.
Also, people post links to other websites here all the time.…
Per my reading of the rules, promotion of another website is explicitly permitted in signatures. If a member wishes to link to another forum, the rules do not, per my reading, prohibit that.
Feels dangerously close to quoting or linking to other members’ posts to call them out, something we aren’t supposed to do here in S&FF.
How about we start with a baseline for your request? What are we looking to match? Without that any reference would be meaningless anyway as you could just claim that the undisclosed treatment at the savage place is worse.
I won't be visiting the other site again, saw all I cared to see.
If @ericgtr12 wants to show how civil the conversations are at his site he can link every instance of my username occurring on his site here for you to read if you are not already there. While he is at it he should link every reference to @Apple_Robert username on his site too, his members were not very nice to him either and he is one of the most helpful and nice people on MR.
So in other words, you were making claims about serious misconduct but refuse to be specific or provide references. Got it. Very civil.
The entire thing is probably off topic anyways and bound to be removed.
I think it's fair to say the tone conveyed in posts in multiple forms runs the gamut. In my own observance, posts that cross the line get moderated as needed. Trolling, bad behavior, nastiness, is not limited to the Apple forums as @portland_bill is suggesting.
I know several have stated opinions the current moderation procedures breed mistrust, I don't see that; but maybe there is some way to enact some changes so all concerned feel the rules offer better transparency.
At least at MacRumors there is no back-door area that posters are discussed and/or ridiculed behind their backs. That type of behavior is as tacky and disingenuous as tacky can be.
I was agreeing with your post until the last paragraph. Posters have been discussed via PM here for years, so this forum does facilitate that option. Not sure why the other forum is being debated here, it’s not owned by this site, it just happens to include many of the same active members.
Most of us have been either permanently banned or penalized several times over the years, often for what most believe are trivial things (granted some is warranted). What you're seeing is their ability to do something they could never do here, speak freely without fear of heavy handed moderation.
So that is how you justify the hateful comments and speech, on your site, directed at members of the MR community that have done nothing wrong other than to be on the other side of a very civil discussion regarding MR?
Nice.
Again, if I had gone to your site and seen your community openly complaining about hateful posts I could understand that but in my short time there what I did find were several hateful posts directed at myself and others who have done nothing but engage members in a conversation about the general vibe of the forums at MR as well as the moderation. Obviously we have different opinions on this but I have never used the tone or language with anyone in these threads that I saw used in reference to me on your site.
I'd love to link all the comments but the language and tone are not permitted here in the far more civilized MR forums. Simply click the link in @ericgtr12 's signature and search for my username or @Apple_Robert and you will find a cesspool of hate.
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I think it is a good idea to consider others’ points of view in this case. What some consider to be racist and misogynistic posts here at MR are seen by others as innocuous. (And some who think that even go so far as to accuse the offended parties as “SJWs” and thinking such SJWs are the real problem.)
What some see as hateful posts on another site might be seen as good-natured ribbing there.
In the case of MR, there is this forum for expressing the fact that some people find some types of posts here hateful or offensive. I believe other forum(s) would likewise welcome a participant in such forum(s) speaking their mind about posts they find offensive as well. However, complaining about a different forum might allow one to blow off steam, but I don’t think it will affect any change. One should take such complaints to the moderators of the site, ON that site.
There is a certain irony that a poster who has repeatedly berated me for complaining about the moderation here, now is complaining vociferously about the moderation of a different site.
As long as we understand each other... you support hateful speech as long as it suits you and is directed at "the other".
I see you.
Who knows what is happening in PMs or private conversations here though? I don’t think it’s worth worrying about either way.
This is a gross mischaracterization of my statement.
And anyways, it completely misses the point.
One can complain about MR forums here in hopes of maybe getting some kind of resolution. Complaining here at MR about content on another site will not affect any change. I suggest if one has concerns about another site’s content, that one reach out to that site’s management instead of discussing it here at MR.
You have now given the other forum more PR than an agency could have provided for a fee.
So…….
I'm actually quite happy to have exposed some here as the hypocrites they are. Standing high on their soap boxes claiming moral and civil superiority while being just as crass, vulgar and insulting as those they claim to fight.
For all the hate I get I do not sling hateful, vulgar statements at those with a different opinion than mine. Instead of running off to a safe little echo chamber I choose to stay right here and try to have a civil conversation about it.
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The criticism is obviously not an effort to solve the problem. Instead, it's motivated by some displeasure that occurs while it's not made, and the belief of that there will be some satisfaction in response to that it is. I'm not opposed to that. I have similar incentives; I also have the impression of that XXX_EricGTR2012_XXX has received some reward that produces injustice.
If the purpose of the message, though, were what you claim belief of that it is, that the complaint is made at MacRumors is certainly not in a causal relationship with that it is ineffective. At least, it's not so by the mechanism that you describe: icanhazmac's text is viewed by the site's management; those who have competence in making the change he is interested in.
I haven’t had much interaction with you but have seen a common piece of advice you’ve given here and that’s to promote posters to go elsewhere if they don’t agree with the policies of MR. Many have taken your advice and if they discuss anybody or annoyances with this site, it’s best to just take it on the chin or ignore it yourself.
The rules are a wee bit funny. Calling a poster a hypocrite to their face would constitute a personal attack, and some sensitive posters would surely designate it as “hate speech” and uncivil. Being a bit vague and calling a group of unspecified posters in a thread hypocrites on the other hand is perfectly fine and civil, as is, obviously, misrepresenting the contents of another forum. I’m still not sure how that place you are so upset about is relevant in S&FF, but I won’t question the modding/non-modding. It is what it is. Certainly feels like this is someone’s safe place, though.
Based on what I’ve seen in this thread my takeaway is that there are two opposing sides mostly. The first is sensitive about words while the second is sensitive about content. The second would like to be able to address for example racist and misogynic content posted, but calling out content as such is often treated as calling out the poster instead.
Yes, I have suggested that, though I would say my opinion was a bit more nuanced than "just leave if you don't like it here". I have interacted with a couple of members here who seem to complain about the same things over and over and over again, even after appealing to the mod team they still complain. This suggests that they are being way more picky about moderation than MR is willing to be. All I suggested (and others have too) was that if this site is so poorly managed, so bad, so annoying to them why not find another Apple site to frequent. If I hated things here as much as some in this thread seem too I'd have left a long time ago. At some point you are beating a dead horse.
I am just as entitled to my opinion that MR is a great site that is about as well moderated as one could expect as other are to complain about it but for some reason I am villainized for verbalizing it?
Ok, again just so we understand each other, you support hateful speech against me because I disagree with opinions and present another side? Got it.
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