MacRumors forum civility has gone downhill

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ipponrg said:
I think you value time on this forum differently than people like myself. This is a leisure forum for me, and the outcome with/without change has no impact outside these forums. So the short answer is “yes”, you just put up with it and continue on.

I wouldn’t say I am giving up. I see it more as I am prioritizing time/emotions on other items.
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Why not join a different forum then?

For most people, this is an Apple forum, not a place for political discussions and off-topic discussions in general.
I7guy said:
First, kudos to the staff for allowing these types of discussions to take place, in general terms. They have shown they are receptive to feedback and in the past have made updates to the policies based on feedback.

There have been multiple threads discussing moderation policies, such as those brought up in this thread. Whether ultimately there are still additional changes based on some of this feedback, yet remains to be seen. One thing that seemingly will not come to pass is to open up the moderation decisions on a general basis to this forum.

With this site having such a heterogeneous user base, I doubt there is a way to have moderation policies in effect whereby 100% of the members believes is appropriate. Someone will always believe they are/were disenfranchised.

The staff has repeatedly says they are not biased and still it seems that is not believed. If one feels this (total lack of transparency) breeds mistrust, one should look closely at their own parameters of participation.
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The staff members haven't said anything yet. We will have to see about that. Are we supposed to take their word for everything they say?

For the most part, the members here are split into two categories.
 
AutomaticApple said:
Why not join a different forum then?

For most people, this is an Apple forum, not a place for political discussions and off-topic discussions in general.
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For many there is community discussion, photography, PRSI, and more. So the above isn’t truly accurate.
AutomaticApple said:
The staff members haven't said anything yet. We will have to see about that. Are we supposed to take their word for everything they say?

For the most part, the members here are split into two categories.
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Staff members have said plenty along those lines in prior threads about this subject. You can try looking at the posting history of annk and drq to see where they have posted in S&FF in the past and if any of what was posted helps with the question of “transparency in moderation.”

I don’t think members here are split and everyone as I see it wants the same thing. But there doesn’t seem to be a push by the staff to upend the moderation policies.(of course, there could be some changes in the works)
 
I7guy said:
For many there is community discussion, photography, PRSI, and more. So the above isn’t truly accurate.
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The Apple categories very much outnumber the off-topic categories.
I7guy said:
Staff members have said plenty along those lines in prior threads about this subject. You can try looking at the posting history of annk and drq to see where they have posted in S&FF in the past and if any of what was posted helps with the question of “transparency in moderation.”

I don’t think members here are split and everyone as I see it wants the same thing. But there doesn’t seem to be a push by the staff to upend the moderation policies.(of course, there could be some changes in the works)
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What about untruthfulness and dishonesty? That isn't the same thing as transparency.

Maybe you should register an account on TalkedAbout and discuss this further. @Apple_Robert is there. :)
talkedabout.com

MacRumors - MacRumors PRSI forum - allowing right wing trolls to ruin the experience for everyone

I suspect that they are waiting for you to ask to have the ban lifted, and will choose their response to such a request. In other words, they will argue that re-instatement in PRSI is not an automatic right (after a year has passed) but one where the individua merits of the case (or supplicant)...
talkedabout.com talkedabout.com
Also, how do you know about certain changes at MacRumors?
 
AutomaticApple said:
Why not join a different forum then?

For most people, this is an Apple forum, not a place for political discussions and off-topic discussions in general.
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I think you completely misunderstood what I was saying.

By leisure forum, I mean it's a forum I visit for reading for fun (pre Oct 2008 of this acct creation) about my general Apple interests along with tangential topics on games, hardware, and industry. Habitually, the first thing I do is click on the "News" tabs in the forum, and then work my way through. I am sometimes lured to PRSI over a polarizing topic because it displays in the News tab. I've learned recently that I don't have the patience to continue a pedantic debate in PRSI with specific individuals, so I usually just tune out after a while.

With all that being said, my main point was I value my time more than to "fight a fire" against moderation. It's not about giving up but more about prioritizing time to things that are more worthwhile. To each their own though
 
ipponrg said:
I think you completely misunderstood what I was saying.

By leisure forum, I mean it's a forum I visit for reading for fun (pre Oct 2008 of this acct creation) about my general Apple interests along with tangential topics on games, hardware, and industry. Habitually, the first thing I do is click on the "News" tabs in the forum, and then work my way through. I am sometimes lured to PRSI over a polarizing topic because it displays in the News tab. I've learned recently that I don't have the patience to continue a pedantic debate in PRSI with specific individuals, so I usually just tune out after a while.

With all that being said, my main point was I value my time more than to "fight a fire" against moderation. It's not about giving up but more about prioritizing time to things that are more worthwhile. To each their own though
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Prioritizing time outside of MacRumors?
 
AutomaticApple said:
Wouldnt you want to participate elsewhere if there was something wrong here?
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For other Apple centric sites? Not really. This is a gateway for me to everywhere else Apple related.

Just like in life, it's all about how much you weigh the "wrong". For me, the wrong I've experienced here ultimately is trivial.
 
AutomaticApple said:
The Apple categories very much outnumber the off-topic categories.

What about untruthfulness and dishonesty? That isn't the same thing as transparency.

Maybe you should register an account on TalkedAbout and discuss this further. @Apple_Robert is there. :)
talkedabout.com

MacRumors - MacRumors PRSI forum - allowing right wing trolls to ruin the experience for everyone

I suspect that they are waiting for you to ask to have the ban lifted, and will choose their response to such a request. In other words, they will argue that re-instatement in PRSI is not an automatic right (after a year has passed) but one where the individua merits of the case (or supplicant)...
talkedabout.com talkedabout.com
Also, how do you know about certain changes at MacRumors?
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To address the last point first, I don’t know if any changes at MacRumors. Have no “inside information” …simply stated an opinion.

The prior post was suggesting you can search for administrator post history to see how certain discussion points were handled. However if the moderation policy is not to your liking, my opinion is, is unlikely to change enough that would cause you still stop posting regarding untruthfulness and dishonesty.

If that is your core belief either don’t post controversial forums with controversial opinions or alternatively MacRumors probably isn’t the place for you.

(and considering there was a kerfufel with apple_robert, I’m not interested in walking into dishonesty)
 
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I7guy said:
To address the last point first, I don’t know if any changes at MacRumors. Have no “inside information” …simply stated an opinion.

The prior post was suggesting you can search for administrator post history to see how certain discussion points were handled. However if the moderation policy is not to your liking, my opinion is, is unlikely to change enough that would cause you still stop posting regarding untruthfulness and dishonesty.

If that is your core belief either don’t post controversial forums with controversial opinions or alternatively MacRumors probably isn’t the place for you.

(and considering there was a kerfufel with apple_robert, I’m not interested in walking into dishonesty)
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I would agree if the rules were applied evenly but the reality is they're not. One person will get away with something another is penalized for, I get there are variables such as one may have been reported and the other may not have but it gives the impression of bias whether intentional or not. BTW I can assure you that the kerfuffle/dishonesty came from someone on this site, just FYI.
 
ericgtr12 said:
I would agree if the rules were applied evenly but the reality is they're not. One person will get away with something another is penalized for, I get there are variables such as one may have been reported and the other may not have but it gives the impression of bias whether intentional or not. BTW I can assure you that the kerfuffle/dishonesty came from someone on this site, just FYI.
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I get that sometimes perception is reality. You have been a long-standing member, who has participated in multiple threads in S&FF on various topics related to moderation, and even said there are variables that may have to be taken into account.

The staff, most likely will not change their position on discussing moderation publicly, so it's not really useful to say there is an impression of bias (as this can never be disproven or proven)...or as automaticapple puts it, dishonesty and mistrust...which I don't find in my corner of the world.

I understand ymmv, and am sure the staff would like nothing more than to have policies where 100% agrees they are fair and even. But as you know, that will never be a reality.
 
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Had been here since 2014.

Rarely posting for the past few years.

As arn said it numerous times the moderators are trying to do their best despite the enormous amount of daily posts.

And most of us had/have a correct, friendly relation with those who officially try to keep the conversations civil. As nothing and nobody is perfect in life, so is moderation.

I left because of a chain of transparently biased decisions by a certain moderator backed up by an administrator's flagrant, incompetent manifestation.

We all have that kind of a decision. At least it is better than to be banned when you can't refrain from "giving a lecture" to a "professor" who can easily kick you out of the "auditorium".

P.S.: I still keep the written history of the flagrant manifestation. Instructive.

I wish you all well.

​

 
satchmo said:
Is it just me or has civil discourse here in the forums, gone downhill?

This is a forum where people express their opinions. If you're not interested, just move on. If you disagree, that's fine, but no need to say so rudely with snarky comments.

Yeah I get it...it's online, and people are brave hiding behind a keyboard.

Frankly, I don't expect things to change, and I'm not sure if the mods, editor or owner of MR really care.
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the problem is so many people here are zealots of the extreme kind, and insist on defending a company that couldn't give a rip about them. their "opinions" are stated as fact and they are so far off their rockers that some people like me cannot help but comment and if it comes across as snark, so be it. some people need a wake up call.
 
What I have stated about policy is fact. It has been mentioned by staff several times in this forum. I have also posted the process of adjudication as well as the stated rules from time to time. I have done nothing different than what other members posting in this thread and forum have done.

If you have a problem with my posting in this forum, you are free to file a report. This thread isn't about me or any other singular member.

I won't be responding to any other post of that kind of nature.
 
ouimetnick said:
If you want to see a more polite civil discussion, check out TalkedAbout.com. A member here started it and takes a different approach to moderation than the administration here.
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Not based on the couple of minutes I spent there looking around. Lots of hateful speech directed at members of MR.

ericgtr12 said:
Yeah but I've heard the owner over there is trouble.
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All I can say about the owner of the other site is that he is not moderating hate speech on his own site. There were several instances of name calling and derogatory statements about members of MR and shockingly a couple of posts aparently lamenting that members of his site cannot figure out who members at MR are IRL. Also a few posts about a "war" between that site and MR.

War? Really? The group that wants to claim more civil conversation wants to talk about a war between forums? What does that even mean?

AutomaticApple said:
Maybe you should register an account on TalkedAbout and discuss this further. @Apple_Robert is there. :)
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Why? So certain members here can go face first into a hostile group? No thanks. And before you claim the atmosphere is not hostile look at the posts over there that are directed at me.

I7guy said:
(and considering there was a kerfufel with apple_robert, I’m not interested in walking into dishonesty)
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Ditto.

The conversation we have had in this thread and a couple like it have been IMHO very civil, we are on different sides of a conversation but they have still been civil. Yet those of you that claim to have more civil and better quality of conversation move off off-site to another forum to attack those of us here on MR that are civil. I could understand it if you discussed the hateful/racist/sexist comments there that you cannot have here but to attack myself, @Apple_Robert , and others who are very civil says a lot about you folks.

@AutomaticApple asked in a separate thread "can their posts over there be held accountable on MacRumors?" Interesting question, can MR members be held accountable for hateful posts over there against other MR members?
 
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portland-dude said:
the problem is so many people here are zealots of the extreme kind, and insist on defending a company that couldn't give a rip about them. their "opinions" are stated as fact and they are so far off their rockers that some people like me cannot help but comment and if it comes across as snark, so be it. some people need a wake up call.
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IMO, the entirety of this thread discussion is not purely Apple related. And zealots encompass both ends of the spectrum. It sounds to me like you think it's okay to not have a civil discussion when it comes Apple and you are blaming those who believe Apple has a valid position on the lack of civil discourse?
 
icanhazmac said:
Not based on the couple of minutes I spent there looking around. Lots of hateful speech directed at members of MR.



All I can say about the owner of the other site is that he is not moderating hate speech on his own site. There were several instances of name calling and derogatory statements about members of MR and shockingly a couple of posts aparently lamenting that members of his site cannot figure out who members at MR are IRL. Also a few posts about a "war" between that site and MR.

War? Really? The group that wants to claim more civil conversation wants to talk about a war between forums? What does that even mean?



Why? So certain members here can go face first into a hostile group? No thanks. And before you claim the atmosphere is not hostile look at the posts over there that are directed at me.



Ditto.

The conversation we have had in this thread and a couple like it have been IMHO very civil, we are on different sides of a conversation but they have still been civil. Yet those of you that claim to have more civil and better quality of conversation move off off-site to another forum to attack those of us here on MR that are civil. I could understand it if you discussed the hateful/racist/sexist comments there that you cannot have here but to attack myself, @Apple_Robert , and others who are very civil says a lot about you folks.

@AutomaticApple asked in a separate thread "can their posts over there be held accountable on MacRumors?" Interesting question, can MR members be held accountable for hateful posts over there against other MR members?
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Let's face it, nearly every post you make in here is telling people what they're doing wrong when using this forum to simply state their grievances about this site. Some opt to be constructive, others opt to point and place blame. In either case, if having other people treat you the same way you're treating them is a problem then maybe re-think that approach.
 
I have been a member here since 2006 and I only joined because I was having an issue with the iphone I had been regularly visiting years before that. I do not agree that the civility has gone down, the political section is a testament to that. I do find that now more than ever before there are fanboys at every corner in droves on the forum. However, the forum is well moderated and I find most people to be personable and friendly.
 
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ericgtr12 said:
Let's face it, nearly every post you make in here is telling people what they're doing wrong when using this forum to simply state their grievances about this site. Some opt to be constructive, others opt to point and place blame. In either case, if having other people treat you the same way you're treating them is a problem then maybe re-think that approach.
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So simply because I engage on a topic from the other side I deserve some of the posts on your site? Wow.

Please reference where I have treated any member of your site with the same language I received.
 
icanhazmac said:
Not based on the couple of minutes I spent there looking around. Lots of hateful speech directed at members of MR.



All I can say about the owner of the other site is that he is not moderating hate speech on his own site. There were several instances of name calling and derogatory statements about members of MR and shockingly a couple of posts aparently lamenting that members of his site cannot figure out who members at MR are IRL. Also a few posts about a "war" between that site and MR.

War? Really? The group that wants to claim more civil conversation wants to talk about a war between forums? What does that even mean?



Why? So certain members here can go face first into a hostile group? No thanks. And before you claim the atmosphere is not hostile look at the posts over there that are directed at me.



Ditto.

The conversation we have had in this thread and a couple like it have been IMHO very civil, we are on different sides of a conversation but they have still been civil. Yet those of you that claim to have more civil and better quality of conversation move off off-site to another forum to attack those of us here on MR that are civil. I could understand it if you discussed the hateful/racist/sexist comments there that you cannot have here but to attack myself, @Apple_Robert , and others who are very civil says a lot about you folks.
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This is the feedback forum for MacRumors. If one has grievances about another website, is this the place to air them?
 
blueflower said:
I have been a member here since 2006 and I only joined because I was having an issue with the iphone I had been regularly visiting years before that. I do not agree that the civility has gone down, the political section is a testament to that. I do find that that now more than every before there are fanboys at every corner in droves on the forum. However, the forum is well moderated and I find most people to be personable and friendly.
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It seems like it's the opposite. They have now restricted that forum to new users and are letting it die on the vine as a result of the total lack of civility and proper oversight there. In their defense I'm sure managing it with their set of rules is a nightmare under the current political climate.
 
itickings said:
Apparently it is against the rules here to reference such posts. Convenient. 🤣
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I believe that is incorrect. It is against forum rules to reference and discuss specific moderation decisions. My request has nothing to do with a moderation choice. @ericgtr12 seems to feel my actions here warrant my treatment elsewhere so I asked him to back that up.

Interestingly @blueflower joined this conversation with what can be categorized as a positive impression of MR, its forums and its moderation. Immediately @ericgtr12 responded with a generally opposite opinion. One could even say he was "lying in wait to pounce" on anyone who posts anything positive about MR. Sound familiar?
 
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