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I do know there are third-party options. But it would be nice if Apple actually shipped a "pro" keyboard with their "pro" computers, that's all. If it's called a professional device, it should feature professional tools... not just be a marketing slogan.

Tactile response on a keyboard is a personal preference and has nothing to do with the "professional" moniker.
 
Tactile response on a keyboard is a personal preference and has nothing to do with the "professional" moniker.
Yes, I suppose so. But so is manual transmission in a professional race car. You think someone who races for a living is going to drive an automatic, simply because it's more comfortable or easier to use? No, they aren't. They're going to use the best tools provided, and in the case of writing, a tactile keyboard, where the keys actually depress and bounce back is paramount. It's more than simple preference.
 
How so? They still work.
Like the aforementioned analogy, yes... they do work. But not nearly as well. And when you're typing for hours a day, every single day of your life to make a living, that "not well" really adds up (and in some cases, can hinder the quality of the writing itself) very quickly.
 
Like the aforementioned analogy, yes... they do work. But not nearly as well. And when you're typing for hours a day, every single day of your life to make a living, that "not well" really adds up (and in some cases, can hinder the quality of the writing itself) very quickly.
If there indeed is a performance drop-off, then I take your point. I had understood from what I read that there was not. I (and many of us here) type many hours a day to make a living.
 
If there indeed is a performance drop-off, then I take your point. I had understood from what I read that there was not. I (and many of us here) type many hours a day to make a living.
Well, the fact that there are third-party solutions which are successful is an indication that there's a need for a better keyboard. If Apple's current keyboard was efficient enough, those products would be gone (it's not a preference thing).

Sadly, Apple use to provide a solution. Their 2013 MacBook Pro was wonderful to type on. But in the quest for paper-thin laptops (and warranty repairs on broken keys), they decided to abandon it.
 
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What are you talking about? You know there are other companies besides Apple, right? Plenty are even making tactile and clicky wireless keyboards. Yeah, you lose TouchID, but as a writer I am sure that is a small sacrifice to make.

I’m not arguing with you here but building off of what you said with my perspective. Apple just constantly misses a core point of design by making ergonomic trade-offs for the sake of aesthetics. It’s on par with the insularity and narcissism of Hollywood that has somehow become elevated in society over time. It’s the fallacy that the visual experience is somehow secondary to its looks and that there MUST be a trade-off. It’s like, “no, an uncomfortable pair of shoes are not more beautiful if they do not function as a pair of shoes. Because in that case, you are attempting to change the fundamental dynamics of the human form using an artificially-imposed sense of beauty that has now made the product itself worthlessly designed.” If a door you have to squeeze through is the most beautiful door on the planet, you’re not even actually describing a door. This argument… applied to their stupid flat awful keyboards. They’re the Chinese foot bonding of keyboards.

Apple needs to stop and make an ergonomic keyboard without people defending their awful aesthetic-only choices as some form of an argument that can even be had anymore. It’s junk with promise because they chose to defy gravity by jumping into a deep well instead of hovering. There’s a big difference between change and innovation.
 
You think someone who races for a living is going to drive an automatic, simply because it's more comfortable or easier to use? No, they aren't.
I understand what you’re getting at, but your car analogy is not appropriately conveyed. And nor is it accurate, given how far automatics have come, especially in the context of H.P.D. It’s pretty obvious that you must not have much experience with high-performance cars, more so; from the standpoint of those who actually do drive both manual and automatic on professional courses.
 
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Leave Thebrochure be. Thebrochure simply wanted to flex on all of us a bit by no-so subtly bragging about being a professional writer and obviously wasn’t expecting to get called out on it by everybody. It’s okay. We understand. As a professional writer myself — as well as the 2021 winner of the “World‘s Greatest Lover” award — I understand the need to brag to people I don’t know about things I clearly made up about myself.
 
Apple needs to stop and make an ergonomic keyboard without people defending their awful aesthetic-only choices as some form of an argument that can even be had anymore. It’s junk with promise because they chose to defy gravity by jumping into a deep well instead of hovering. There’s a big difference between change and innovation.
I really don’t understand why Apple hasn’t brought back the Adjustable Keyboard or made an MS ergo clone. It really sucks there are no good looking and quality ergo keyboards to match.
 
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Yes, I suppose so. But so is manual transmission in a professional race car. You think someone who races for a living is going to drive an automatic, simply because it's more comfortable or easier to use? No, they aren't. They're going to use the best tools provided, and in the case of writing, a tactile keyboard, where the keys actually depress and bounce back is paramount. It's more than simple preference.

Another point that I wanted to make is there are endless varieties of mechanical keyboards out there. You can customize the type of switch, the shape of keycap, the coating of keycaps, etc. I actually enjoyed the experience of trying to figure out which keyboard would fit my preferences (feel, sound, travel, rgb, etc). If Apple made a mechanical keyboard, you might still complain. There are just too many combinations out there.

But back to the original point. Somebody who races for a living is supported by an entire team who design custom engines, chassis, etc. These are vehicles made only for the race track, so there's much more to it than automatic vs manual.

Again, it's back to preference. Everyone with a desk job tends to do a lot of typing. So I'm not sure if this is just a flex that writers require "better tools" than the rest of us. I type hundreds of messages and plenty of emails a day. I don't know the word count but I assure you it's a decent amount. I do also care about the tactile feel and efficiency because productivity is just as important for me as it would be for anyone else. The apple keyboard is great for my needs. But I don't like the magic mouse or trackpad, so I use the Logitech Mx master 3. However, when I game I use a customized mechanical keyboard and a mmo gaming mouse. All I'm saying is if Apple isn't cutting it for you, there are plenty of options available.
 
impressed the Magic Mouse retains all of its functions even with the paint job. If you're listening, Sweepstakes Gods, this would be a great birthday present for me.
 
I understand what you’re getting at, but your car analogy is not appropriately conveyed. And nor is it accurate, given how far automatics have come, especially in the context of H.P.D. It’s pretty obvious that you must not have much experience with high-performance cars, more so; from the standpoint of those who actually do drive both manual and automatic on professional courses.
If someone entered the Indy 500 using an automatic transmission, he or she would still finish the race, but they would come in dead last (hence why no one drives an automatic in the 500) by an ungodly amount. Similarly, if a writer used a keyboard like the one Apple ships with their computers, they would also finish their novel, but at a much, much slower rate. That was the point I was trying to make. That yes, it's a keyboard. Yes, you can use it for work. But its not optimized for writers. It's optimized for form over function.
 
I really don’t understand why Apple hasn’t brought back the Adjustable Keyboard or made an MS ergo clone. It really sucks there are no good looking and quality ergo keyboards to match.
And there’s no reason except cutesyness that there can’t be. It’s a form of trolling to make a flat keyboard and a monitor you need to look down on on your desk or else pay $400 extra. Trash.
 
If someone entered the Indy 500 using an automatic transmission, he or she would still finish the race, but they would come in dead last (hence why no one drives an automatic in the 500) by an ungodly amount.
Why? Surely with all other things equal they would win as an auto race box shifts gears quicker than you can blink. Nobody pitches-up at an F1 event with a stick and pedal clutch these days.

Presumably the Indy 500 has a big book defining the technical specs of the cars. Presumably you don't write about car racing... just brochures and pamphlets. Anyone for 'Famous Jewish Sporting Heroes'?
 
Colorware do great work. I have the extended keyboard and trackpad in matte black (bought before Apple was offering Space Grey versions) and they are very well done. I unfortunately thought the matte finish would have some sort of coating over it - the paint hasn't suffered, but it feels like touching sand (think Lenovo trackpad). Still an exceptional process that they've developed. Completely unnecessary but a nice gift.
 
Why? Surely with all other things equal they would win as an auto race box shifts gears quicker than you can blink. Nobody pitches-up at an F1 event with a stick and pedal clutch these days.

Presumably the Indy 500 has a big book defining the technical specs of the cars. Presumably you don't write about car racing... just brochures and pamphlets. Anyone for 'Famous Jewish Sporting Heroes'?
I knew my screen name would give me away. I freakin' knew it!
 
If someone entered the Indy 500 using an automatic transmission, he or she would still finish the race, but they would come in dead last (hence why no one drives an automatic in the 500) by an ungodly amount. Similarly, if a writer used a keyboard like the one Apple ships with their computers, they would also finish their novel, but at a much, much slower rate. That was the point I was trying to make. That yes, it's a keyboard. Yes, you can use it for work. But its not optimized for writers. It's optimized for form over function.

You're comparing a customized race car to a mass produced product. You are free to customize your entire computing experience at a considerable cost

Also, I know many writers who don't have a problem with the apple keyboards. So this is just an issue with your typing skills which can be fixed by practicing online.
 
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You're comparing a customized race car to a mass produced product. In that case better get a mac mini/mac studio and a custom keyboard. There's always a solution. You also have the choice of using a Windows laptop.

I know many writers who don't have a problem with the apple keyboards. Your typing output is no more important than any other professional.
Did I say I was more important?
 
Did I say I was more important?

Well with your race car analogies you seem to think your work is so important that Apple has to create something custom to your preferences. As if the rest of us don't depend on typing as much as you do.
 
Well with your race car analogies you seem to think your work is so important that Apple has to create something custom to your preferences. As if the rest of us don't depend on typing as much as you do.
I want Apple to ship better keyboards for all professionals. At least with the professional-level computers. If they want something sleek and hip, ship it with standard Macs etc. But a pro Mac should come with a keyboard that suits its name, and the keyboard shipping with the pros right now does not do that. It's designed with the idea of form being more important than function when it should be the other way around if it's really for people who use them to make a living.
 
I want Apple to ship better keyboards for all professionals. At least with the professional-level computers. If they want something sleek and hip, ship it with standard Macs etc. But a pro Mac should come with a keyboard that suits its name, and the keyboard shipping with the pros right now does not do that. It's designed with the idea of form being more important than function when it should be the other way around if it's really for people who use them to make a living.
I'm always intrigued on this site when the word "professional" comes into play. Maybe someone in this thread can tell my if I'm a professional or an amateur.

I'm a professor, recently published my first book with a university press, and already had a few dozen articles and other chapters in print. I don't know if I qualify as a "professional" in this conversation though. My primary source of income isn't from writing.

But more relevant to this conversation, I've experimented with a handful (<10) of different keyboard setups and have found that I prefer Apple's magic keyboard lineup. They're familiar and comfortable and I really appreciate the standardization across different machines that I work with in the day-to-day of my . . . professional? . . . work.
 
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