MacRumors LGBT+ article policy - disabling/deleting comments

[chumps52]

So I first noticed this yesterday with the articles about Apple's Pride month-related Apple Watch offerings.

An article with rumors about upcoming releases for this was fully unlocked for comments. A second article about the actual releases had comments disabled immediately - with no reasoning provided at all. Even "political"-related threads are allowed comments, and have a disclaimer at the bottom about users needing >= 100 previous posts/comments or something before being allowed to comment.

My first questions here are: why did this article have comments disabled, and why was there not even a little disclaimer/message at the bottom about it?

There is another thread, not related to an article, about these watch faces. I commented about how it would be nice to actually be able to comment on the front page article itself. I had a couple of direct replies to this comment, including one from @briko expressing how it was actually pretty much discriminatory to lock these LGBT+-related threads with no reasoning provided whatsoever. This was removed by a moderator - with, again, no (public, at least) explanation as to why. I @'ed the user to ask if they had deleted their response, and my comment was removed for "response to a moderated post". Even with these two removals, there was no comment from the moderation/staff team concerning the underlying discussion.

I then posted another response to that same thread:

Mods are clearly looking at this thread and removing comments - but still no explanation as to why the front page article had comments disabled?
You seem to just be here removing comments even slightly critical of MacRumors...?

And guess what? It was removed. I had a seemingly generic message from @NoBoMac stating it was removed for being off-topic. Fair enough in a way, I guess, but again no explanation at all. I couldn't even reply to their message.

All I want to know is

1. Why are these articles automatically locked/comments disabled? It is discriminatory, imo.
2. If you're going to do this anyway, why can't you just explain why? It's pathetic and power-tripping imo to just try and silence it all by silently removing comments. Even places like Reddit at least have "[Removed]" on moderated posts/comments, even if you can't easily see what was removed. MacRumors just silently does this, who knows how many times.

 

[Weaselboy]

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/comments-disabled-thats-something-new.2321804/

There is an earlier thread here ^ that explains.

 

[laptech]

So I first noticed this yesterday with the articles about Apple's Pride month-related Apple Watch offerings.

An article with rumors about upcoming releases for this was fully unlocked for comments. A second article about the actual releases had comments disabled immediately - with no reasoning provided at all. Even "political"-related threads are allowed comments, and have a disclaimer at the bottom about users needing >= 100 previous posts/comments or something before being allowed to comment.

My first questions here are: why did this article have comments disabled, and why was there not even a little disclaimer/message at the bottom about it?

There is another thread, not related to an article, about these watch faces. I commented about how it would be nice to actually be able to comment on the front page article itself. I had a couple of direct replies to this comment, including one from @briko expressing how it was actually pretty much discriminatory to lock these LGBT+-related threads with no reasoning provided whatsoever. This was removed by a moderator - with, again, no (public, at least) explanation as to why. I @'ed the user to ask if they had deleted their response, and my comment was removed for "response to a moderated post". Even with these two removals, there was no comment from the moderation/staff team concerning the underlying discussion.

I then posted another response to that same thread:

And guess what? It was removed. I had a seemingly generic message from @NoBoMac stating it was removed for being off-topic. Fair enough in a way, I guess, but again no explanation at all. I couldn't even reply to their message.

All I want to know is

1. Why are these articles automatically locked/comments disabled? It is discriminatory, imo.
2. If you're going to do this anyway, why can't you just explain why? It's pathetic and power-tripping imo to just try and silence it all by silently removing comments. Even places like Reddit at least have "[Removed]" on moderated posts/comments, even if you can't easily see what was removed. MacRumors just silently does this, who knows how many times.

In my opinion it is mod's wanting an easy life not having to spend time dealing with a topic that could create troublesome posts.

Disable comments = Easy mod life

 

[KaliYoni]

So I first noticed this yesterday...

Here's a previous discussion related to your post, if you haven't already seen it:

Is Science now considered PRSI?

In a thread talking about the miami building collapse, I posted these are the effects of climate change As one who holds a graduate degree in atmospheric science and engineering, this is true and really not up for debate in the scientific community. is discussing science now taboo in current...

forums.macrumors.com

 

[tobefirst ⚽️]

All I want to know is

1. Why are these articles automatically locked/comments disabled?

In my opinion, MacRumors has, by action and/or inaction, cultivated a place, including attracting certain types of users, where conversation about topics concerning LGBTQ+, minorities, and women cannot be had.

 

[Joe Rossignol]

I chose to disable the comments on the Pride Band announcement story preemptively because a lot of the comments would have been toxic. It's as simple as that.

As for the lack of consistency on comments being disabled, the other Pride Band front page story was posted by a different writer who chose to allow comments at their discretion, and the other was a user-submitted forum thread that is overseen by the moderation team, not the editorial staff.

I hope that helps!

 

[chumps52]

I chose to disable the comments on the Pride Band announcement story preemptively because a lot of the comments would have been toxic. It's as simple as that.

As for the lack of consistency on comments being disabled, the other Pride Band front page story was posted by a different writer who chose to allow comments at their discretion, and the other was a user-submitted forum thread that is overseen by the moderation team, not the editorial staff.

I hope that helps!

Fair enough, thank you for the response + explanation. I just think it could have been communicated better (or at all, really). Nothing was mentioned as to why and, what really annoyed me personally, was any time I/someone else mentioned it/asked about comments being disabled on that post and removed elsewhere, those comments/questions were also just removed.

Even my comment that I linked to in this post has since been removed ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

But yeah, it makes sense as to why now. I think it's a real shame how bigoted some people can be, but I also understand you guys don't want to sit moderating that all day. I just posted this to get an actual response, really.

 

[chown33]

This Moderation FAQ may be informative:

https://macrumors.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/sections/200309177-Moderation-FAQ

Here's the basic Help Center page with buttons for Rules, FAQs, etc.:

MacRumors.com Help Center

macrumors.zendesk.com

 

[Jumpthesnark]

And here is another article regarding the Pride bands being for sale in Apple Stores, posted today, that also has had its comments disabled.

New Apple Watch Pride Edition Bands Now Available at Select Apple Stores

In addition to online ordering, the new Pride Edition Sport Loop and Pride Edition Nike Sport Loop for the Apple Watch are now available for purchase...

www.macrumors.com

If @Joe Rossignol is correct and the comments would have been that toxic, it's a sad indictment of this community and the larger community we're part of.

 

[CarlJ]

I chose to disable the comments on the Pride Band announcement story preemptively because a lot of the comments would have been toxic. It's as simple as that.

The simple explanation is that, sadly, MacRumors has its share of homophobic forum members.

Yes, I understand that the driving factor in locking various articles is moderation effort, not topic, yet the point remains.

As the OP pointed out, it would be nice if the articles where comments are disabled had a line at the bottom stating why the comments were disabled, if nothing else, so that it doesn't look like some sort of technical problem.

I've also noticed occasional articles where comments are not disabled, but the top comments will not display under the article - I'm not talking about some article that was posted five minutes earlier, I've seen instances where the article may have hundreds of comments, and some of the comments have dozens of upvotes, and yet no comments display following the main article text on the front page. Again, a line at the bottom of the article stating "we've blocked display of comments on this article because X" would at least make it not look like the site was broken.

 

[Jumpthesnark]

The simple explanation is that, sadly, MacRumors has its share of homophobic forum members.

Yes, I understand that the driving factor in locking various articles is moderation effort, not topic, yet the point remains.

File the whole issue (not your reply) under "this is why we can't have nice things," I guess.

 

[tobefirst ⚽️]

The simple explanation is that, sadly, MacRumors has its share of homophobic forum members.

...and xenophobia...and gynophobia. If a thread news story is about minorities, comments are disabled. If a thread news storyis about women, comments are disabled. And disabling the comments is the "solution" rather than elevating the bar.

Sad.

 

[MajorFubar]

Disabling all comments on threads which might result in toxic people posting hateful responses is not the answer. Instantly expunging the the haters is the answer.

 

[xxray]

I’m LGBTQ+, and I did find it frustrating to not be able to make comments on those posts, but I understand where the mods are coming from. I’m a moderator on another site. Every single time there is a post related to minorities here, it turns into pages and pages of arguing including lots of homophobic, racist, intolerant, rude posts. I don’t think it’s ever productive either. Like I don’t think anyone is discussing with another stranger online with no faces, only text posts, and then changes their mind about something. It just turns into a burning hot garbage bin. So I understand where the mods are coming from of just shutting that down before it can begin. Moderation is also sort of a lose-lose job in itself. You don’t get a whole lot of appreciation for what you do right, and you get criticized the more action you take.

Hell, even the post about the guy leaving Apple due to Apple’s work-from-home policy turned into a mess of a comments section. I never thought that something as harmless as a work-from-home topic could be that controversial. It all says a lot about society and social media right now. Yikes.

 

[Phil77354]

There are plenty of threads in MacRumors for discussions on these and other topics that are likely to quickly develop into heated arguments, and worse.

The forum is not prohibiting that, simply saying - do it over here >> in the Community Discussion forum, for example.

 

[MajorFubar]

So I understand where the mods are coming from of just shutting that down before it can begin.

Trouble is it doesn't send a message to the haters that their prejudices are obsolete and unwanted in 2022. It just temporarily removes the platform for them to shout from.

Straight guy here. My LGBTQ+ friends call me an 'Ally', which apparently is an endearing term for what as far as I'm concerned should just be considered 'normal'. Ie it should be just normal to be a tolerant 'ally', while those who aren't tolerant need to be shown their views aren't normal and aren't wanted. Just locking threads where they can voice their hate doesn't help in the long term, it's just a temporary solution.

All just IMO of course.

 

[Jumpthesnark]

The forum is not prohibiting that, simply saying - do it over here >> in the Community Discussion forum, for example.

If that's the answer, it's really sad that we would need to have comments about new watch bands moved to Community Discussion just for the sake of keeping toxic or childish members around. They're watch bands.

 

[Weaselboy]

The forum is not prohibiting that, simply saying - do it over here >> in the Community Discussion forum, for example.

Just to clarify on this... if there is, for example, an article on Apple reimposing mask mandates at their stores, and comments are disabled for the article. We would not allow a member to go to the Community forum and start a new thread to discuss that topic.

 

[Phil77354]

If that's the answer, it's really sad that we would need to have comments about new watch bands moved to Community Discussion just for the sake of keeping toxic or childish members around. They're watch bands.

That's not what I'm saying. Lots of discussions are initiated in various forums without being 'moved'.

And thanks @Weaselboy for clarifying my earlier post.

 

[balticgreen]

I immediately noticed this too on the news stories about the Pride bands. I distinctly remember commenting in the discussion threads about the bands in prior years. Now this year, I guess the first rule of Pride Bands is you don't talk about Pride Bands.

In my opinion it is mod's wanting an easy life not having to spend time dealing with a topic that could create troublesome posts.

Disable comments = Easy mod life

If that's it then what that unfortunately says is that our existence is a troublesome topic that is best ignored for the convenience of others. That's not a good look in 2022.

If they're going to disable comments preemptively, then at the very least, they should say why and make it clear that hate is not acceptable. Stand up against it. Quietly sweeping it under the rug doesn't help anything.

...and xenophobia...and gynophobia. If a thread news story is about minorities, comments are disabled. If a thread news storyis about women, comments are disabled. And disabling the comments is the "solution" rather than elevating the bar.

Sad.

Disabling all comments on threads which might result in toxic people posting hateful responses is not the answer. Instantly expunging the the haters is the answer.

I agree with both of you. It is sad. Hiding the hate doesn't make it go away and we as a society need to raise the bar. I realize this is MacRumors and not, say, HRC, but the stand that MacRumors is taking here by immediately blocking any comments on LGBTQ+ topics is that they just can't be bothered. Days before Pride Month begins and with news items specifically related to Pride, but they can't be bothered. That's so disappointing to me and not very Apple-like.

Trouble is it doesn't send a message to the haters that their prejudices are obsolete and unwanted in 2022. It just temporarily removes the platform for them to shout from.

Straight guy here. My LGBTQ+ friends call me an 'Ally', which apparently is an endearing term for what as far as I'm concerned should just be considered 'normal'. Ie it should be just normal to be a tolerant 'ally', while those who aren't tolerant need to be shown their views aren't normal and aren't wanted. Just locking threads where they can voice their hate doesn't help in the long term, it's just a temporary solution.

All just IMO of course.

Completely agree and thank you for your allyship even if it really is just what should be the norm.

Small things like this make a difference because visibility and community are important. Imagine a kid somewhere in a closed-minded area struggling with self-acceptance or struggling to find acceptance from others. That same kid comes here because they like Apple products and stumbles into a completely normal conversation between LGBTQ+ individuals (and allies!) talking about something as inconsequential as watch bands. The discussion isn't groundbreaking by any means but simply seeing the openness, feeling the sense of community, reading casual comments like a man buying a band for his husband, and seeing us as normal everyday people living normal everyday lives talking about watch bands could mean the world to that kid who feels alone. Of course we know some hateful comments unfortunately will be made but they are not the majority. Sure the kid may see those too, but you know what else that kid will see? Posts standing up to the hate and comments from moderators that hate will not be tolerated. That's how you raise the bar. That's how lives are changed... and also saved. Blocking the conversation before it starts is just another form of rejection.

I fully concede that it's not MacRumors' duty to be some sort of gay haven. That's not what this site is and I'm not asking that it be so. MacRumors created a large community of users from all walks of life around the world with one common interest. I'm only asking for the staff to let that community that you created have a conversation about news items that you posted. When someone is out of line, moderate. You wouldn't have moderators if you didn't expect to need them. Pride bands come out (pun fully intended) once a year. Is this too much to ask once a year?

 

[CarlJ]

Small things like this make a difference because visibility and community are important. Imagine a kid somewhere in a closed-minded area struggling with self-acceptance or struggling to find acceptance from others. That same kid comes here because they like Apple products and stumbles into a completely normal conversation between LGBTQ+ individuals (and allies!) talking about something as inconsequential as watch bands. The discussion isn't groundbreaking by any means but simply seeing the openness, feeling the sense of community, reading casual comments like a man buying a band for his husband, and seeing us as normal everyday people living normal everyday lives talking about watch bands could mean the world to that kid who feels alone. Of course we know some hateful comments unfortunately will be made but they are not the majority. Sure the kid may see those too, but you know what else that kid will see? Posts standing up to the hate and comments from moderators that hate will not be tolerated. That's how you raise the bar. That's how lives are changed... and also saved. Blocking the conversation before it starts is just another form of rejection.

Yep. 100%. I accept that MacRumors' goal here is to minimize work for the moderators...

... But the end result is, quite literally, the haters win. Homophobes, transphobes, xenophobes, racists, misogynists, and other haters are handed control over the conversation, they get to dictate what is dicussed and to shut down the conversation whenever they want - like when the color of a ****ing watchband offends them. They effectively get to choose what topics get discussed, and what topics are verboten - MacRumors has ceded that control to them - yes, I know that isn't what MR set out to do, but that's the environment they have created. MacRumors effectively silences the people the haters don't like for them.

And MacRumors doesn't have the balls to put a message above the "comments disabled" text saying exactly why they're not going to let anyone discuss that topic (and, frankly, "no comments because this is too controversial" wouldn't be much better, it'd be nice for them to have the balls to say, "we've disabled comments on this article because we know it'll attract too much attention from the more homophobic members of our audience"). Instead, it's just "comments disabled", or sometimes the comments are allowed, but mysteriously no "top comments" are listed underneath the article (on articles with hundreds of comments, some of which have dozens of upvotes).

I get it, they don't want to have to do the work to police the haters, and they don't want to call them out (or kick them out), because, hey, haters generate ad impressions too - wouldn't want to ruffle any feathers (but it's fine to silence some voices).

And all of this sucks.

 

[Duncan-UK]

Thing is - what is a "hater". It would seem at times that anything short of outright "celebration" can be deemed to be hate-speech - especially by self-styled activists and their allies.

You can find the "me, me, me" narcissism of much activism, and also the rush of corporates to woke-wash themselves, distasteful and embarrassing without being being a bigot or "phobe" of any kind.

So forgive me if I find my eyes rolling at yet another deeply patronising minority of the month celebration, or garish watch bands.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

I'm so tired of wedge issues and embarrassed with how easily people play into them. Moderating that is a poop sandwich. Groups have found that marketing the wedge is the best way to get what they want, but it's leaving gaping holes in society.

Hats off to moderators for wading into this morass, and kudos to those that avoid 'stepping in it'. It's gotten so much more easier to inflame and incite and all people want it recognition and acknowledgement of a right to exist. We *used* to be better than this. *sigh*

 

[turbineseaplane]

Disabling all comments on threads which might result in toxic people posting hateful responses is not the answer. Instantly expunging the the haters is the answer.

Exactly my thought

If you have users who can't comport themselves well in the mere presence of an article about LGBT+ issues....the answer is to clean up the userbase, not shut down any comments or discussion about the article.

 

[turbineseaplane]

If they're going to disable comments preemptively, then at the very least, they should say why and make it clear that hate is not acceptable. Stand up against it. Quietly sweeping it under the rug doesn't help anything.

This is another good point

I don't agree with preemptively shutting off comments, at all.

How can the users of the site even demonstrate an ability to adapt and be better about topics if not even given the chance?