macs and politics

3rdpath

macrumors 68000
its all about the oil

daddy bush did well in the oil biz but dubya and el busto didn't. dubya's better at saying "subliminal" than he is at wildcatting....cheney got the big golden parachute from haliburton ( $33million) who he " worked" for while somehow maintaining his residence in wyoming...guess that house in highland park was for those romantic getaways to dallas....i love that he won't voluntarily release any info about whom he met with to create our nation's energy policy. funny, i thought he was in public office to represent us; he should be happy to share how he crafted a national policy that i'm sure represents our best interests.

no need to craft a policy for prudent use of energy and developing alternative energy sources. lets just drill in alaska to get a six month's supply of fuel for our fat-butted suburban drivers.

most of the posters here are too young to remember standing in line for hours to get gas in 1979. the price of oil ( like diamonds) has always been a scam.
 

krossfyter

macrumors 601
Jan 13, 2002
4,297
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secret city
Originally posted by Rower_CPU


We're here for open discussion, and your beliefs/opinions are just as valid as mine...

PS. You're only 2 shy of 1000...so let me congratulate you prematurely...:D


very true very true. it takes a mature person to say that.

thanks for the congrats. man.
 

krossfyter

macrumors 601
Jan 13, 2002
4,297
0
secret city
yes its all about oil aye 3rd path?!?!?!


some say that if Hitler went for the mideast oil as oppose to all of russia they would have won the second world war.
 

sturm375

macrumors 6502
Jan 8, 2002
428
0
Bakersfield, CA
True Christianity

Frist let me list a few of the so called true christians:

Bush, Jr.
Ashcroft
Pat Roberts


Now ask yourselves are these people truly following in Christ's footsteps?

Bush condones the death peanilty, Christ would never.

Pat Roberts hates the Jews, and all who are not "Christians", Christ hated nobody.

Ashcroft forces his morals on all he can, Christ never forced anything.


As a true Christian we endever to follow Christs path. We should ask ourselves in every situation, what would Christ do. After all according to our belief, He is watching all of us, at all times. Would Christ condone the torture of another human to reveal possible hidden terrorist cells? NO! Would Christ put anyone to death, or stand idle while another is put to death, when he had the power to stop it? NO!

If it is the Christian Coalition that defines Christianaty, then I don't want to be called a Christian.

By the way, I bet Christ wouldn't have either Mac or Windows, probably Linux.:)
 

jefhatfield

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Jul 9, 2000
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thanks krossfyter, for mentioning me when you hit 1000

politics is one thing, religion is another

the christian coalition is a political organization for the well being of the republican party...that is not a bad thing...we need two parties with constituents

christianity is a religion with christ at its head

please do not get the two mixed up anybody

i am a born again christian, but actually i am simply a christian and i am a democrat

christianity is not determined by which political party you belong to but answering the call of john 3:16, "for god so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever belives in him shall not perish but have everlasting life"

and from the last time i remember from my text or notes from bible college, there was never once a mention of the christian coalition, the democrats, or the republicans

so who were the christian presidents? only god knows the answer to that...it is not in deed, but in belief, and even though there are fruits, they cannot always be seen

the greatest work done by christians in the world is thru prayer, not thru some "action" as many of the cults believe as john ashcroft's cult is into

for respect of the people in cults, my employee is a minister in a cult but a very holy man, i won't mention what cult ashcroft belongs to...you can look that up (they are not allowed to dance...it is considered wrong)
 

mcrain

macrumors 68000
Feb 8, 2002
1,772
11
Illinois
Most of us who read these pages have science or math backgrounds. Granted, computer science is a very functional form of science as opposed to the more theory oriented fields of pure physics, chemistry, or math, but anyone with any type of science background has to be familiar with the rules regarding when a theory becomes a law.

That being said, there is no way to prove or disprove most religious tenants. As such, there is no way to argue that one religions teachings are true as opposed to any others. What we have are opposing, differing theories.

As there is no way of proving any one religious theory, any argument is merely an argument that boils down to nothing more than I like my theory more than yours.

In a political setting, our Constitution explicitly requires the separation of church and state. Therefore, any candidate who actively campaigns on the basis that he or she will make their decisions based on their religious beliefs, is a candidate who is campaining that they are against the Constitution.

That being said, the foremost quality of a candidate is their decision making abilities, and strong morale fiber is a good quality to have, so long as the decision maker understands that it is improper to impose religious or moral beliefs on others.

To anyone who argues that we need to have handguns to protect us from Government oppression, I need to point out just how effective untrained people with rifles and handguns are against our nation's military. For examples, look to Somolia, Iraq, Afganistan, etc... If the Government wanted to oppress us, no amount of guns owned by the population is going to protect us. Because that argument (protect us against the government) really is pure fantasy, the only real reason to keep guns around is to kill each other, protect or homes/family, or to hunt.

I certainly don't need an assault rifle or uzi to hunt or protect my home or family, but it certainly makes it easier for some wacko to kill me or my family.

Gun control and common sense restrictions on gun ownership, purchasing, and use don't interfere with anyones ability to hunt or protect their family. Those types of laws only make it harder for wack-jobs to buy and use guns, and those laws try to prevent those same wack-jobs from obtaining far deadlier weapons.

Now, if you want to argue that eliminating all guns and making them all illegal is wrong, I'll support that argument. But, if you argue that any gun control is morally wrong and that you have a "right" to carry an assault weapon, then I'll outright call you a brainwashed nutcase and, to keep me and my family safe, I'll be sure to steer clear of you and your hair-trigger.

Anecdote: Brother in law was walking from one row of cars to another to get to his car. He was in the middle of the drive when a car came flying around the corner and honked at him. Rather than going back the way he had come, he proceeded as quickly as possible to the other side. The car pulled up, rolled down its window and yelled profanities. When he turned around, guess what he saw. The barrel of a gun. What state you ask? Texas! I'll admit that an armed populous makes certain crimes less likely, but that just scares the cr*p out of me.
 

eyelikeart

Moderator emeritus
Jan 2, 2001
11,897
0
Metairie, LA
I couldn't honestly begin to guess which presidents were Christian...for that matter...there are few (I imagine) potiliticians with high religious morals...

I was born Catholic...and quit going to church once I was old enough to decide whether or not I wanted to go. Personally (and I am not meaning to offend anyone who feels differently!) I don't find anything spiritually satisfying with what the Catholic Church has to offer. I feel it's more of a ritual than something meant to get inside of one's heart. Sitting...standing...kneeling...chanting the same words over and over...it just doesn't make me feel any closer to God than I feel by myself. Plus I don't agree with the simple fact that one can go & do whatever they want...but once they "confess" their sins to a higher authority they pay pennance & are forgiven....only to do it all over again at some point after. Again, I do not intend to offend anyone here...just my thoughts and feelings.

I've tried other forms of prayer & church in the past few years...Christian fellowship was the one with which I actually felt something. However, I just didn't feel comfortable with all of the singing & such...it faded for me as well and as of the past 2 years I haven't stepped foot into a service. I feel that for most people it takes a life-changing experience of some sort to get there. I did have somewhat of a near-death experience 3 years ago and it did open my eyes to the fact that there is a God and that there is a time for all of us at some point...obviously mine had yet to come. But I am aware that I need to be the best person I can be in my time on this earth.

I believe in God...and I believe there is an afterlife. I believe in ghost, angels, guardian angels, spirits...I believe the dead can communicate with the living...and I believe there are signs given to us each day from all of these. I don't believe in purgatory...but I do believe there are lost souls which don't know where to go.

I commend with great respect those who have strong faith and have found something that works for them...I honestly do. I just haven't gotten to that part of my life as of yet. I have more to say, but I feel like this is turning into a book so I shall cut it here. I am sure I'll get some feedback here...so maybe I'll continue from there??

oh...and congrats on 1000 krossfyter!!! :p
 

eyelikeart

Moderator emeritus
Jan 2, 2001
11,897
0
Metairie, LA
hmm...

I suppose I went a tad off subject there...

should have been in the earlier thread titled "Macs & Religion"...

oh well...guess I look like the @ss now :eek:
 

jefhatfield

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Jul 9, 2000
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Originally posted by mcrain
Most of us who read these pages have science or math backgrounds. Granted, computer science is a very functional form of science as opposed to the more theory oriented fields of pure physics, chemistry, or math, but anyone with any type of science background has to be familiar with the rules regarding when a theory becomes a law.



i am an mcp and plan to get my master's of science in computer engineering and hopefully the new mcse certification...and i will tell you, i am not a scientist in any way shape or form...and to respect to the real engineers, i am not a real engineer nor will ever be in that sense

so i have the freedom to believe in the cookie monster without hurting my reputation or my career

now if i was going for my doctor of medicine and hoping to get certified as a private physician, spouting out something like creationist beliefs would destroy my reputation and career...would you go to a brain surgeon, that for argument's sake, believed you got a tumor because your chakras were wrong or that the planets were not aligned

not me

but if i met a phd in computer engineering with his mcse and ccie who belived in planetary alignment, i would not care as long as my network was up and running

the scientific method is important, but i am yet to run into in in grad level books about game thoery as it relates to operations management as it relates to setting up a cisco router wiring closet in a pop enabled building with three different grounds and water pipes:D
 

jefhatfield

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Jul 9, 2000
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Originally posted by eyelikeart

I was born Catholic...and quit going to church once I was old enough to decide whether or not I wanted to go. Personally (and I am not meaning to offend anyone who feels differently!) I don't find anything spiritually satisfying with what the Catholic Church has to offer. I feel it's more of a ritual than something meant to get inside of one's heart. Sitting...standing...kneeling...chanting the same words over and over...it just doesn't make me feel any closer to God than I feel by myself.



i hope not to take this out of context since it is of a religious matter and a partial quote...he he

that chanting and ritual is in every church whether it is a catholic church with the chanting, the presbyterian with the same old hymns (kind of like chanting after the 700th time), or a newer protestant or catholic born again church singing the same song "i will celebrate" until the words become a drone and a chant also

ritual and chant takes on meaning when you start thinking that it it is to a god who loves you...then latin chants in a traditional catholic church or dancing with the preacher who is holidng an electric guitar in a black baptist church is all the same when done in love

i used to hate the ritual of a presbyterian or anglican church...i though it was all fluff and circumstance...but now it takes on a spiritual meaning with a personal relationship to god...after a life changing experience, christmas carols become really special

outside of the bible, the common christmas carol has the most powerful religious wording i have ever seen in my whole life...and i just though it was all christmas trees, santa claus, and presents

notice that a lot of older mature christians go to church a lot more than the young these days...it sometimes takes a whole lifetime to grasp god and his mysterious ways

god is a hands off manager and to many, that seems hypocritical and uncaring, but in any religion, that's the way the higher power is

the higher power is always there, but we simply don't always see that power

my 2 cents
 

jefhatfield

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Jul 9, 2000
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Originally posted by jefhatfield
Originally posted by mcrain
Most of us who read these pages have science or math backgrounds. Granted, computer science is a very functional form of science as opposed to the more theory oriented fields of pure physics, chemistry, or math, but anyone with any type of science background has to be familiar with the rules regarding when a theory becomes a law.



i am an mcp and plan to get my master's of science in computer engineering and hopefully the new mcse certification...and i will tell you, i am not a scientist in any way shape or form...and to respect to the real engineers, i am not a real engineer nor will ever be in that sense





disclaimer:

i am not cutting down us computer students or graduates saying we are not engineers...engineer is an extremely broad term indeed

my best friend has 4 degrees

BS in electonic engineering from MIT
MS in computer science from MIT
MS in aritificial intelligence from MIT
PhD in computer science from Stanford

he only considers the BS degree an engineering degree and has mentioned that they, along with chenical, metallurgical, civil, electrical, structural, and other engineers will not accept computer engineers (non ciruitboard) or programmers (like my buddy) as real engineers and this standard is held within the college community in the united states

but to be fair, computer engineers and programmers as every bit as important as doctors, dentists, electricians, architects, anthropologists, bridge builders, and other scientists and engineers in society

and to put all of us college educated and trained trades people into perspective, someone asked the mayor of new york city, "among all the people who work in this most powerful city in the world, who do you consider the most important?"

the mayor answered, " that is obvious, the garbage collectors"
 

3rdpath

macrumors 68000
just a thought

Desiderata



Go placidly amid the noise and haste, and remember what peace there may be in silence. As far as possible without surrender be on good terms with all persons. Speak your truth quietly and clearly: and listen to others, even the dull and ignorant, they too have their story. Avoid loud and aggressive persons, they are vexations to the spirit. If you compare yourself with others you may become vain and bitter; for always there will be greater and lesser person than yourself. Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans. Keep interested in you own career, however humble; it is a real possession in the changing fortunes of time. Exercise caution in your business affaires; for the world is full of trickery. But let this not blind you to what virtue there is; many persons strive for high ideals; and everywhere life is full of heroism. Be your self. Especially do not feign affection. Neither be cynical about love; for in the face of all aridity and disenchantment it is perennial as the grass. Take kindly the counsel of the years, gracefully surrendering the things of youth. Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune. But do not distress yourself with imaginings. Many fears are born of fatigue and loneliness. Beyond a wholesome discipline, be gentle with yourself. You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should. Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceiver Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul. With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy.
 

jefhatfield

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Jul 9, 2000
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does that apply to us democrats and republicans or is that some green party saying

just kidding...that's a really good saying and i wish you were there during our month long dragged out "macs and religion" shindig

anyway, thanks for the quote...it is great to have sane people among all of us zealots;)
 

3rdpath

macrumors 68000
sane? who knows for sure

my late father gave me a framed version of that quote many years ago. i keep it on the wall of my studio and try to remember to read it from time to time. i've found that most of my clients who read it tend to lighten-up and slow down a little bit-the sessions tend to go smoothly. some even ask for copies( its on my hard drive). every once in awhile a client will read it and give a cynical " yea, right...", those people tend to not be long term clients.

kind of a subtle personality screening process. and if the screening doesn't work i can always use the frame to thwack someone upside the head....
 

jefhatfield

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Jul 9, 2000
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Originally posted by krossfyter
thanks eyelikeart and jethatfield.


congrats to you jethatfield on 1000.



i ususally don't post threads, but i put up a half a dozen or so, some controversial, so i could finally reach 1000 after two years

and the good thing is, it will help alphatech reach the 1000 club very soon

i know i know, this isn't a frat...i hate frats...this is a 12 step mac addicts group

wait, i can't use that term...macaddict is a magazine...oh oh, gocyrus will sue me:p


ps - at cal poly, slo, my old school, the term fraternity was not used too often in the 80s, it was frat from what my frat friends said

but now, two generations later in the post y2k era, i think the term frat is deragatory...so goes the world of political correctness

when i was a kid, i was oriental, then asian, then japanese american...i prefer mac user, thank you:p

and in my circles, network techies, mac is a bad bad word;)
 

Ifeelbloated

macrumors regular
Jan 14, 2002
245
0
some God forsaken place
Politics is a strange game indeed. Lately, I've learned to keep my opinions to myself. I tend to be conservative and when I was a graphics arts student I felt like I was in "Indian country" if you know what I mean. Man, biting that tongue does hurt. I remember mostly feeling a dull disgust with some of the people there. I'm a person that can't stand pretense. Yes, politeness has it's place but I feel political correctness is killing this countrys sense of humor.
 

jefhatfield

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Jul 9, 2000
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Originally posted by Ifeelbloated
Politics is a strange game indeed. Lately, I've learned to keep my opinions to myself. I tend to be conservative and when I was a graphics arts student I felt like I was in "Indian country" if you know what I mean. Man, biting that tongue does hurt. I remember mostly feeling a dull disgust with some of the people there. I'm a person that can't stand pretense. Yes, politeness has it's place but I feel political correctness is killing this countrys sense of humor.
i know what you mean, buddy

i was in mba school with a democratic leaning...i kept my mouth shut
 

jefhatfield

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Jul 9, 2000
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Originally posted by krossfyter
hmmmm.... im wondering...

are thier any conservatives, christians and or rebuplicans at Berkley?

yes, there are...he he

ie...(my wife's friend and her husband...but their son has a cushy job working for george w), two friends on mine who are in the highest tax bracket and self employed and rely on gop small business tax writeoffs, and an old lady i know who thinks ronald reagan is sexy/rico suave sexy!...all of whom went to uc berkeley

funny thing is, how did i meet every conservative who ever went to berkeley since 1930? he he

cal is probably the most liberal school in the us and one of my mba firends, who smokes pot and hates republicans, was blown away by their mba school when he was found to be the most conservative person there!
 

krossfyter

macrumors 601
Jan 13, 2002
4,297
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secret city
wow. thats intersting jet. i wonder how much of the population makes up conservatives at berkley or cal.


is there any really conservative universities that you can spit out for me? i cant think of any. ...maybe the baptist or catholic ones...right?