Macs are already obsolete because of Thunderbolt

[murphychris]

Let's go back to the very beginning:

If instead of crippling Macs with Thunderbolt, Apple would just have used DisplayPort 1.2

You are categorically saying Macs are crippled for the sole reason of Thunderbolt, instead of DisplayPort 1.2, and the lack of full resolution for 4K displays. That's your thesis statement. And it's beyond absurd.

You are proposing DisplayPort 1.2 instead of Thunderbolt. It is NOT in Apple's interest to support 4K displays now. It is in their interest to support Thunderbolt because it support peripherals other than displays, whereas DisplayPort does not.

In fact YOUR idea would cripple Macs.

which the discrete chips already support since quite a while, the computers would be able to drive the new display generation at full resolution.

Name computer make/models that have DisplayPort 1.2.

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Except when Apple introduced Thunderbolt, DisplayPort 1.2 already existed

Thunderbolt is an Intel technology and as far as I can tell in the Thunderbolt spec it specifies DisplayPort 1.1a. DisplayPort 1.2 requires a bandwidth that Thunderbolt presently cannot provide is the likely reason why.

 

[pgiguere1]

Do you seriously think more people will want to plug their MacBooks in a 4K TV and expect it to play 4K content in the next few years than people who will use Thunderbolt drives, Thunderbolt display, Thunderbolt to ethernet or to Firewire adapter, etc.?

Ridiculous.

I don't know any person who owns a 4K TV nor anybody who plans to buy one in the near future. Meanwhile, Thunderbolt lets me use FireWire on my MBA and my future rMBP, will let me buy a Thunderbolt enclosure and put a 2.5" SSD in it and I'll possibly get a Thunderbolt display as well if Apple updates it.

If you plan on dropping $10k a 4K TV soon, good for you but don't blame Apple for taking a decision that benefits the majority while you're in a very, very small minority.

If you decide to be an early adopter, it's normal that you will face some downsides. The average consumers shouldn't be penalized because of a negligible proportion of early adopters.

 

[murphychris]

Ridiculous.

And by definition why the OP, and his idea, deserve to be ridiculed.

If you plan on getting a 4K TV soon, good for you but don't blame Apple for taking a decision that benefits the majority while you're in a very, very small minority.

As others have pointed out, you can't even get one yet. And recent benchmarks on the rMBP demonstrate how performance suffers immensely upon driving things like games or video at full display resolution instead of something more modest. And that resolution isn't anywhere near 4k. So the thesis, and supporting premises are just immensely proud displays of blatant stupidity.

Ripping on Apple these days is like shooting fish in a barrel and the OP chooses to manufacture this non-issue and make a big deal out of it? It must be due to shear boredom.

 

[cube]

There are 4KTV for sale already. Maybe not in your country.

The first Thunderbolt Macs already had DisplayPort 1.2 graphics chips, that is a fact.

I'm not asking for DP 1.2 in Thunderbolt. What I say is that it was wrong to replace DP with Thunderbolt. I said that since the first day.

 

[murphychris]

The first Thunderbolt Macs already had DisplayPort 1.2 graphics chips, that is a fact.

A GPU is not a bus.

I'm not asking for DP 1.2 in Thunderbolt. What I say is that it was wrong to replace DP with Thunderbolt. I said that since the first day.

No what you said is they should simply have left Thunderbolt out of the picture by using DP 1.2 and not Thunderbolt.

You didn't suggest that they have two identical ports, with no obvious way of distinguishing between them, one of which would be a DP 1.2 only port, and the other would be a Thunderbolt port which per the spec also incorporates DP 1.1a.

Either suggestion is ridiculous.

 

[cube]

A GPU is not a bus.



No what you said is they should simply have left Thunderbolt out of the picture by using DP 1.2 and not Thunderbolt.

You didn't suggest that they have two identical ports, with no obvious way of distinguishing between them, one of which would be a DP 1.2 only port, and the other would be a Thunderbolt port which per the spec also incorporates DP 1.1a.

Either suggestion is ridiculous.

The GPU supports DP 1.2

I would prefer DP+Thunderbolt, but Apple likes to have minimum ports. In the latter case, DP wins.

 

[Comeagain?]

The GPU supports DP 1.2

I would prefer DP+Thunderbolt, but Apple likes to have minimum ports. In the latter case, DP wins.

But DP can't carry 4 simultaneous 10Gb channels.

 

[murphychris]

The GPU supports DP 1.2

Yea you've said this three times and apparently you don't understand that this is completely meaningless because a GPU is not a bus. It is not a connector. You need a way to get from the external device, a connector, to a bus to get to the GPU.

I would prefer DP+Thunderbolt, but Apple likes to have minimum ports. In the latter case, DP wins.

Your preference is so beyond absurd I think you are on the wrong pills. Name a time when Apple has ever given us two identical connectors with completely different functionality?

 

[cube]

Yea you've said this three times and apparently you don't understand that this is completely meaningless because a GPU is not a bus. It is not a connector. You need a way to get from the external device, a connector, to a bus to get to the GPU.



Your preference is so beyond absurd I think you are on the wrong pills. Name a time when Apple has ever given us two identical connectors with completely different functionality?

The most important thing is that the GPU supports the protocol, in this case you can add the bus and the connector. If the GPU doesn't support it, there's nothing you can do. This is why the Mac is crippled, because the core already supports DP 1.2

Thunderbolt didn't need to have the same connector as DP if it had not been a replacement. Also as a crippled port, they could have just left out the DP functionality, and leave it as pure PCI Express, which might have resulted in cables not having an unreasonable price, BTW.

Thunderbolt is a classic example of Apple's minimalism gone wrong.

 

[murphychris]

The most important thing is that the GPU supports the protocol, in this case you can add the bus and the connector. If the GPU doesn't support it, there's nothing you can do.

Seeing as none of these components are user replaceable at all on any Mac EXCEPT for the GPU on MacPros, it would seem the GPU is not the most important. If any one of the components can't do X, then X can't be done. It is not hinged on just the GPU.

This is why the Mac is crippled, because the core already supports DP 1.2

Name a make/model that has DP 1.2. Or accept that all computers everywhere are all "crippled" in your hyper-distorted worldview.

Thunderbolt didn't need to have the same connector as DP if it had not been a replacement.

Yes it did, that is the connector the spec defines for Thunderbolt.

Also as a crippled port, they could have just left out the DP functionality, and leave it as pure PCI Express, which might have resulted in cables not having an unreasonable price, BTW.

No they could not, integration of DP in Thunderbolt is in the spec.

Go bitch to Intel if you don't like the spec.

Thunderbolt is a classic example of Apple's minimalism gone wrong.

This thread is an example of the OP's ignorant, stubborn, cluelessness.

 

[cube]

Seeing as none of these components are user replaceable at all on any Mac EXCEPT for the GPU on MacPros, it would seem the GPU is not the most important. If any one of the components can't do X, then X can't be done. It is not hinged on just the GPU.



Name a make/model that has DP 1.2. Or accept that all computers everywhere are all "crippled" in your hyper-distorted worldview.



Yes it did, that is the connector the spec defines for Thunderbolt.

No they could not, integration of DP in Thunderbolt is in the spec.

Go bitch to Intel if you don't like the spec.



This thread is an example of the OP's ignorant, stubborn, cluelessness.

Intel developed Thunderbolt in partnership with Apple.

I don't care if other notebooks support DP 1.2 or HDMI 1.4. That is not the point.

The GPU is there, the connector was there. The most important things were there, upgrading the bus was just the obvious detail to do, if Apple had not gone through the wrong path.

I tell you the right path:

- Add USB 3.0 without Intel support a long time ago.
- Upgrade DP 1.1 to DP 1.2 when the corresponding AMD chips were used.
- Assuming expensive cables are acceptable, replace DP by Thunderbolt in 2013

 

[mmomega]

So I am guessing you currently have a 4k TV and are upset that you can not directly connect your Mac to it?

 

[Panini]

Even IF you could use 4k TVs, you would say macs are obsolete because the current hardware wouldn't be able to drive it smoothly.

 

[cube]

Even IF you could use 4k TVs, you would say macs are obsolete because the current hardware wouldn't be able to drive it smoothly.

I don't pay much attention to Macs having the latest graphics.
If it can drive the 4K display for static 2D it's enough.

There's other people to call Macs obsolete because they don't have the latest graphics, even under 4K.

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So I am guessing you currently have a 4k TV and are upset that you can not directly connect your Mac to it?

No, because I just bought the last Snow Leopard MBP and there will be nothing to replace it if an affordable 4K monitor appears in one or two years, now that 4K enters the consumer space.

Uber-professional 4K monitors have existed for some time but they are unbelievable expensive.

 

[takeshi74]

I don't care if other notebooks support DP 1.2 or HDMI 1.4.

You should if you think it's a dealbreaker as you'd need to look into the alternatives. So what is the point? To gripe about something that no one else cares about at this stage? No mass produced product will ever cater to an individual or minority group. If you expect otherwise then be prepared to be constantly disappointed with everything out there.

 

[cube]

You should if you think it's a dealbreaker as you'd need to look into the alternatives. So what is the point? To gripe about something that no one else cares about at this stage? No mass produced product will ever cater to an individual or minority group. If you expect otherwise then be prepared to be constantly disappointed with everything out there.

I just bought an MBP. I am not looking at any alternatives. And in any case, the alternative must not be Windows.

And there are notebook PCs with DP 1.2 or HDMI 1.4a, just google it.

 

[estrides]

Anything you've said since post 1 has been a moot point. You may want to just quit rehashing the same points.

 

[John.B]

The Macbook Pros now no longer have GigE or FW.

Only the Retina MBPs are missing GigE and FW800, the regular MPBs still have them:

http://www.apple.com/macbook-pro/specs/13-and-15-inch/

Not to say that's a good sign for the future...

 

[rodolfo]

4K TVs are being released.

If instead of crippling Macs with Thunderbolt, Apple would just have used DisplayPort 1.2 which the discrete chips already support since quite a while, the computers would be able to drive the new display generation at full resolution.

You can connect your 4K monitor to your MacBook Pro using a Thunderbolt to HDMI 1.4a adapter. (up to 30 mts away) The 4K output is 4:2:2 10bits.

http://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/ultrastudio4k/