Macs are SLOWER than PCs. Here’s why.

[cram501]

All of my personal hardware would run circles around my work equipment, but I'm not buying my own device for work. I'd be willing to go down that road if work 100% paid for the device I picked, but they should pay for the tools that get the job done.

Shame companies still don't fully get it.

I agree. I just like working on the best equipment for the purpose at hand. It is my choice and not a burden the company puts on me.
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As an OSCE, I can't help but sigh when anyone uses the term "hack" incorrectly. I blame Hollywood and the media for this.

The definition of "hack" got redefined years ago. Trying to reclaim it is a lost cause. It is the same for symbols like the pound sign to hash tag.... Or stupid phrases like "interwebs" for the internet.

The terms are going to evolve and not always in a good way.

 

[Jaekae]

The processor isn't the biggest problem with apple's laptops right now.

I don't care whether they have a machine 5x or 10x the speed of my iPad Pro - if the keyboard has the same issues the current line has, then its a strict NO BUY from me.

To bad for you then. Millions of ppl like the low travel keys more for faster typing

 

[petvas]

and here is the response of Rene Ritchie:

 

[boss.king]

To bad for you then. Millions of ppl like the low travel keys more for faster typing

I don't think he's referring to the short key travel, but rather the widespread keyboard failure found across MBP models from the last three years.

 

[mudflap]

A Corvette is faster than a BMW sedan. Which one would you rather drive around in 8-16 hours a day, 5-7 days a week?

Not that I can afford a BMW but I can afford a Mac

 

[jerryk]

Interesting comments about BYOD. I have noticed this as a trend in a lot of companies these days. As others have mentioned as long as your machine has a browser you can do a lot of work these days as a developer. All of the code and development environment resides on a server with big memory, access to terabytes of storage, multiple processor, GPU farms, etc., and centralized security and access control that the operations people like. Your desktop machine is just an engine to host the browser.

At one company I even saw developers using Chromebooks, with their dedicated ESC key.

 

[pshufd]

Finally watched the video. It seems that it's more Intel's fault - Apple marketing their way around Intel's approach on adding cores instead of shrinking geometry and making IPC improvements.

 

[maflynn]

Which one would you rather drive around in 8-16 hours a day, 5-7 days a week?

It may not be sexy, but my thinkpad is fast, cool and runs solidly, so I chose that

 

[throAU]

To bad for you then. Millions of ppl like the low travel keys more for faster typing

I'm not talking about the lower travel i'm talking about the chronic unreliability.

The typing is NOT faster when half the keys don't work and then you're without a machine for a week.

 

[c0ppo]

It may not be sexy, but my thinkpad is fast, cool and runs solidly, so I chose that

That’s funny. I find my x1e to be sexy, and I like the feel of carbon fiber way more then aluminum.

 

[MrGunnyPT]

Finally watched the video. It seems that it's more Intel's fault - Apple marketing their way around Intel's approach on adding cores instead of shrinking geometry and making IPC improvements.

Yeah and at the end of the day... Apple relies on Intel for whatever Mac products comes out, unless some ARM Macs start coming out

 

[agaskew]

Yeah and at the end of the day... Apple relies on Intel for whatever Mac products comes out, unless some ARM Macs start coming out

Practically all of the manufacturers are at fault on this point, but Apple has chosen thinness over cooling more than most, which has made the thermals worse.

 

[MrGunnyPT]

Practically all of the manufacturers are at fault on this point, but Apple has chosen thinness over cooling more than most, which has made the thermals worse.

True but in my own opinion I don't think Apple should have done a i9 model with this chassis.

This belongs to a 17" or something model where thermals could be much better.

 

[maflynn]

That’s funny. I find my x1e to be sexy, and I like the feel of carbon fiber way more then aluminum.

Using the other member's car metaphor, my X1E, is the minivan of laptops
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Practically all of the manufacturers are at fault on this point, but Apple has chosen thinness over cooling more than most, which has made the thermals worse.

I have to disagree, while Apple is certainly not alone, I'm thinking of Dell, there are a number of other makers that have embraced a somewhat thinner (not as thin as apple) design, and enjoy very good thermals. I consider Razer is a good example in terms of not incurring thermal throttling. Dell is one that has struggled with thermal throttling, even prior to Coffee Lake, and like Apple they chose not to update the cooling, or case to handle the hotter CPUs and it shows as that laptop also struggles with heat.

My Thinkpad runs much much cooler then the MBP, and unlike the Mac, there's more tools available to tweak and adjust the processor so I can customize how it behaves and enhance the cooling or enhance the performance.

 

[pshufd]

Practically all of the manufacturers are at fault on this point, but Apple has chosen thinness over cooling more than most, which has made the thermals worse.

I think that's fine - if they came out with thicker designs as well - for real power users. They could just just really old marketing and call them PowerMacs (PowerPC + Mac).

 

[maflynn]

I think that's fine - if they came out with thicker designs as well - for real power users. They could just just really old marketing and call them PowerMacs (PowerPC + Mac).

I think many of us has said as much, we're not talking about many inches of thickness, but a couple millimeter., enough to provide more thermal headroom.

 

[pshufd]

I think many of us has said as much, we're not talking about many inches of thickness, but a couple millimeter., enough to provide more thermal headroom.

Anything. Go back to the rMBPs or back to the 2008 models or even the old PowerBooks. I'd actually like 3/4 to 7/8. I'd even look at something that looked like the old PowerMac with all of the holes.

 

[aevan]

It's a fact and how Apple design them. Like as not Apple's telemetry tells them that the vast majority don't push their MBP's or don't care enough about it. Apple likes to talk pro on it's site and present the image of the same with it's rather disingenuous marketing. Reality is the MBP is at least 30% slower if not more so as the cooling system is simply inadequate to deal with the CPU, let alone in tandem with the dGPU.

Q-6

The 30% part is simply not true, even Linus says so in his video.

It comes down to different compromises and what you want out of a computer. MacBooks are not for you. We get it. Everyone gets it. You’ve said so many times - and I’m starting to wonder if you really believe it fully, when you have to repeat it so many times.

You prefer Windows laptops. It’s fine. I think Windows laptops are mostly dumpster fires. It’s also fine. If you’re out for benchmark CPU performance or have specific workflows, PC is better, 100%. For a lot of users, it’s not all about one thing. Is security a pro thing? The T2 things? Encription, SSD speed, etc? They could be. MacBook Pros are great computers for some and bad for others. But no matter how many posts you make: they are not universally bad and PCs are not better for everyone.

 

[aevan]

It may not be sexy, but my thinkpad is fast, cool and runs solidly, so I chose that

Good for you. I mean it. It really is about priorities and when we say them out loud, the other “side” can feel bad.
For example if I say I find Thinkpads bad looking to the point it's to the detriment of my enjoyment - it sounds as if I’m saying you have no taste. When you say MacBook Pros don’t run as fast and cool as Thinkpads - it sounds as if I don’t care about performance and work, but focus on the superficial.

Neither is true. It’s just different priorities/needs. And even those change over time.


Now for a small rant:

For me, there is no dilemma - my workflows require macOS - from automating certain tasks to using both my iPad Pro and MBP for work - it's just the best and only choice for me. Also - I can't go back to a PC trackpad ever (even if it was one of the better ones, it still wouldn't have the large surface, the haptic click and all the gesture benefits of BetterTouchTool which is macOS-only). And this may seem like a funny thing to some of you - but I'm not going back to CTRL instead of ⌘ - the placement and muscle memory is more important to me than squeezing every bit of performance from the CPU.

But it's not like the performance on a Mac is bad - unless you focus just on benchmarks. I also work on a good desktop PC and my subjective impression is that I'm more often waiting on my PC than on my Mac for a lot of things, tbh. And yes, it's subjective - I agree. Perhaps it's the SSD speed or Windows or just me imagining things, but not once did I think my 2.5 year old MBP feels "slow".

The way some people talk about benchmarks and cooling, I guess they are all doing some rendering with a stopwatch and every second costs money or something - because when I see someone say "so my Dell finished that 10 minute video rendering 45 seconds before the MBP", my question is.... "erm, so?". Honestly, I am convinced that in most cases, people are just justifying their choices.

The main apps I use are - Zbrush, Blender and Photoshop. They all benefit from multiple cores, but not to the point where you can notice a 10% benchmark increase in real life. However, some of the benefits of a Mac I do notice and they do increase my speed and productivity.

The one negative thing I can say about the MBP currently is the reliability of the keyboard. To me, that is so much more important than a PC guy bringing out some CPU benchmarks to convince people Macs are worse.

Anyway, hopefully the dream MacBook is coming - one with a reliable keyboard and some crazy Apple A-series CPU. I often try to imagine the scenario where Macs beat PCs in benchmarks the way iPhones beat Android phones. At least all these ridiculous benchmark videos will stop and PC fans focus on real life usage and performance - just like Android fans do now. Only then would we have a true discussion: which platform is better for work.

/rant
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That’s funny. I find my x1e to be sexy, and I like the feel of carbon fiber way more then aluminum.

That's all that matters, ofc, and I heard great things about Thinkpads - but since you brought it up, I just can't get over the Thinkpad lettering in the corner. And the red accents on the dot (on the keyboard) and the trackpad buttons. But that lettering - oh, boy.

 

[c0ppo]

That's all that matters, ofc, and I heard great things about Thinkpads - but since you brought it up, I just can't get over the Thinkpad lettering in the corner. And the red accents on the dot (on the keyboard) and the trackpad buttons. But that lettering - oh, boy.

Honestly, I always disliked red coloring on Thinkpads, even since IBM days.
I got used to it, but still would rather have some color that doesn't stick out so much.

But with all that said, X1E seemed like a decent looking laptop when I saw it online. But once I got my hands on it, well, that changed drastically. You really have to see it in person and use it to understand how good it looks and feels.

I would also like to have MacOS on it, without a doubt. But since MBP is in the state that it is, I can't have my work suffer just because I like MacOS more then any other OS. If Apple ever gets things straighten up, I will purchase MBP again.

But I have no plans on ditching X1E, not even if Apple puts out the best MBP ever. I will use both, since I really do enjoy my X1E. Great, sturdy and with the best keyboard on laptops ever. My only regret is not using IBM thinkpads back in the day. But they were expensive, and I didn't have the financial means to use one at that time. Only if my parents helped (I was young at 90s early 2000), but somehow I think they would simply laugh at my request

 

[pshufd]

I saw a mention of PopOS so I took a look and it's interesting. I may give it a shot on an old Dell desktop to see what the buzz is about. At the end of the day, though, I want Notes, Numbers, iCloud, Reminders, iCal, etc. I want a Unix command window but Linux does have that.

Macs are slower? Don't have enough RAM? Well, I find the latter true so my current solution is to use two of them. I could also use a Mac and a Windows system or Linux system as that would still give me my Mac/iOS Apps. What would be nice is something like Synergy so that I could use one KM to control both. I used to use Synergy like that but I don't know if that stuff still works or if it would work on our network.

So strategy will be to use two until Apple gets its act together. I would buy one of the new ones at the right price and just use it with an external keyboard.

 

[cram501]

Good for you. I mean it. It really is about priorities and when we say them out loud, the other “side” can feel bad.
For example if I say I find Thinkpads bad looking to the point it's to the detriment of my enjoyment - it sounds as if I’m saying you have no taste. When you say MacBook Pros don’t run as fast and cool as Thinkpads - it sounds as if I don’t care about performance and work, but focus on the superficial.

Neither is true. It’s just different priorities/needs. And even those change over time.

I don't understand your comparison although I think I get your point. Performance is important to many in this thread and that is why it is the subject we are discussing.

If you love your MBP, thats great. It's a tool and I"m not sure why the rant if someone else finds a fault with the design. If performance or heat issues don't impact you that makes your choice all the better but it impacts many.

I like my MBP Early 2013 but I could cook an egg on it when it gets maxed out and throttles.
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Finally watched the video. It seems that it's more Intel's fault - Apple marketing their way around Intel's approach on adding cores instead of shrinking geometry and making IPC improvements.

Apple had the Intel processors during their design phase. They knew the power/heat envelope and the decided to ignore it. I'm not defending Intel on their processor road map (or lack thereof) but Apple and many other manufacturers made design decisions that may negatively impact the performance of their laptops when under load.
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Macs are slower? Don't have enough RAM? Well, I find the latter true so my current solution is to use two of them. I could also use a Mac and a Windows system or Linux system as that would still give me my Mac/iOS Apps. What would be nice is something like Synergy so that I could use one KM to control both. I used to use Synergy like that but I don't know if that stuff still works or if it would work on our network.

That is why I ended up with an iMac Pro. 16gb wasn't enough for running the VM's I needed to create/use. I do still use my MBP but I also have a Dell XPS 15 running Linux with 32gb of Ram if I need portability.

 

[aevan]

Honestly, I always disliked red coloring on Thinkpads, even since IBM days.
I got used to it, but still would rather have some color that doesn't stick out so much.

But with all that said, X1E seemed like a decent looking laptop when I saw it online. But once I got my hands on it, well, that changed drastically. You really have to see it in person and use it to understand how good it looks and feels.

I would also like to have MacOS on it, without a doubt. But since MBP is in the state that it is, I can't have my work suffer just because I like MacOS more then any other OS. If Apple ever gets things straighten up, I will purchase MBP again.

But I have no plans on ditching X1E, not even if Apple puts out the best MBP ever. I will use both, since I really do enjoy my X1E. Great, sturdy and with the best keyboard on laptops ever. My only regret is not using IBM thinkpads back in the day. But they were expensive, and I didn't have the financial means to use one at that time. Only if my parents helped (I was young at 90s early 2000), but somehow I think they would simply laugh at my request

That's great man, glad you're enjoying it. Now I'll have to pay closer attention when I see it in the store

 

[dazzer21-2]

If I could get a Macbook Pro with the same form factor as my old G4 powerbook 15", I'd be happy with that. I don't need a machine for which its thickness is measured in microns for the sake of aesthetics over capability.

 

[LogicalApex]

If I could get a Macbook Pro with the same form factor as my old G4 powerbook 15", I'd be happy with that. I don't need a machine for which its thickness is measured in microns for the sake of aesthetics over capability.

And I don't want a thick heavy laptop (this was the reason I swapped to a Mac when upgrading from my Lenovo T520). Obviously, different users have different needs and if your needs don't align with the compromises Apple is making to cater to their demographic your only choice is to jump to PC where manufacturers cater to every need with a large variety of form factors and specification options.

Neither of our needs are more important than the other since they are our needs. But we have to pick the right tool to fit our needs.