MagicPad (with Copy and Paste) and Proposal for System-Wide Copy and Paste

[lazyrighteye]

Double-tap & hold?
I like it.

Will be nice when this (or something similar) finally makes it's way into the OS.

 

[kockgunner]

me and a few other macrumors members have already thought of the double tap and hold method a few months ago. these guys just made it into a confusing, repetitive video with slurred narration.

 

[megatron0069]

What's so amazing about copy and paste? When would u honestly ever use it on your phone?

Copy and paste is great, you could copy a few urls into a email instead of just one, great for showing your firend what someone IMed you. I can't wait to be off iphone 2.0 beta and be on 2.1 with copy and paste built in. If it isnt part of the update i will buy this for sure.

 

[longofest]

What's so amazing about copy and paste? When would u honestly ever use it on your phone?

Do you have an iPhone? Every day I have incidents where I was wishing that I had access to copy/paste functionality.

Copy/paste on any regular phone isn't necessarily needed, but on the iPhone, where you are opened to the internet on your phone, it becomes much more of a necessity.

 

[Me1000]

What's so amazing about copy and paste? When would u honestly ever use it on your phone?

There are many times I would like to share links via my phone. Being able to copy a link and paste it into twitterific would be a godsend.

That said if I could triple tap the address bar in Safari to select the whole url THAT WOULD BE AWESOME! You know, similar to triple clicking the url in regular safari to select it.

 

[ZiggyPastorius]

That's a lot of work for select. What's wrong with using two fingers?. It seems to me the simpler and more elegant solution would be to select the start location with the current magnification tool, and then add a second finger, for a two fingered drag to the end of the selection.

This was the idea I thought of a few months ago in a thread about copy and paste. Can't be that bad of an idea if several people came up with the same idea.

 

[MacFly123]

Well hell, with just a bit of refinement, there you have it! Sign me up 🙂

 

[Saladinos]

The problem to copy/paste like this works is that it only works for text that you edit. If you're emailed something, or there's some text on a webpage, you can't get the loupe or select text. I suppose Apple could add that, but it'd feel a bit unpolished to me. The best solution IMO would be a hardware button to get in to text selection mode, but that's not possible now.

Maybe the standard controls will feature a selection mode, which can be activated with a button. Then it'll be up to developers to put that button where they want.

The biggest thing I want is a smaller toolbar for Safari when in landscape mode. If you're typing on it, the toolbar takes most of the rest of the screen, and you're left with a window a couple of pixels high until everything on the page finishes loading. It's annoying, and if you need to go back and change anything with the loupe, it's hell.

 

[DipDog3]

I disagree. What's so hard about double tap and hold?

arn

NO, Why double tap? A double tap is not needed!!!

Just select and hold. This will place the magnifying glass into selection mode and you move your finger to select the text you want. When you have selected it, then lift up your finger. ONLY ONE TAP!

 

[trever.mendez]

NO, Why double tap? A double tap is not needed!!!

Just select and hold. This will place the magnifying glass into selection mode and you move your finger to select the text you want. When you have selected it, then lift up your finger. ONLY ONE TAP!

Umm, okay so now how do you move your cursor to write new text or fix a word you misspelled when you just selected everything. How exactly did you move the cursor to find your starting point without selecting in the meantime?

The method you just described is the current way to find a spot to write new text, not select existing text.

 

[Kevin_B]

It's more work, and it's not an intuitive process.

Whenever there are timed processes involved in UI, especially one that would be used so often, it both adds unnecessary complexity (and therefore time) to the process, and a greater margin for error. Can you imagine the frustration of not tapping with the correct timing (which is not so hard to imagine on any touch screen), and having the phone reset your taps so that it takes 5 minutes of frustration to (using the precision model) select your text.

So I suppose the mouse double-click was a bad idea? 😉

Seriously, consider the alternative you're suggesting - it might work fine for one line, but for multiple lines it could prove to be very impractical. Imagine selecting text starting on the upper right of the screen with your index finger, and wanting to select down and to the left with your middle finger. You'd be doing some serious gymnastics! Initiating the loupe (starting point) with your thumb to avoid this is not a good option, as it goes against what you're used to and does not offer the level of precision of your index finger.

Not only would two-finger selection be impractical from a dexterity standpoint, but it would confuse itself (and potentially conflict) with the other two-finger action commonly used in many apps such as Safari: pinch zooming. Sure, you could solve this with a "tap and hold for a moment" initiation, but then you run into your timed process argument.

The double-tap and hold selection method the Magic Pad guys have outlined seems like the most intuitive and consistently applicable option I've seen to date. Nice work guys!

Cheers,

Kevin

 

[Elrond39]

Now, everybody try this for a minute. Select part of this text that I'm writing... How many people double-click on the word they want to start with, hold the left button, and then drag the cursor to their desired end-point in one fluid motion?

I sure do, so, an iPhone implementation with double-tap-and-drag would be almost like second nature. Add the magnification loop, and it becomes easier to see the starting point. I think this is a solid effort, it just screams "second nature" to me, and I think it's great that people are offering up ideas. It's not presumptuous, it's not a sign of hubris; it's just them creating a starting point for further discussion and I think we should take note of it, as could Apple.

 

[jmmo20]

These guys at magicpad are quite dumb (sorry.)
Now, Apple will now never implement it like they say. Because It cannot be pantented, once it has been published publicly.

They should have petented it before the video, then Apple might have bought off the patent.

Now it will be neither.

 

[DipDog3]

Umm, okay so now how do you move your cursor to write new text or fix a word you misspelled when you just selected everything. How exactly did you move the cursor to find your starting point without selecting in the meantime?

The method you just described is the current way to find a spot to write new text, not select existing text.

Tap & HOLD. Once held at the same spot for a second, it will enter selection mode. This is the way Apple will implement it, not some double tap!

 

[JCC]

The selection mechanic is ok. I worry about any UI that involves "if the user does this again within a short time" though. We all have our own definitions of "short time." (I suppose they'd have to have a system preference for that the way Mac OS X has a preference for double click speed.) They never explain why multi-touch is difficult, or why you'd want to save it for the future. If copy and paste is that important, wouldn't you want a mechanic that doesn't take so long to describe?

Their text formatting palette makes sense for their specific application. It doesn't make as much sense for a general copy and paste solution.

I'd like to see something not modal, or at least not bring up a large user interface element. Apple has clearly devoted lots of thought to making scrolling as easy as possible. I hope they come up with something with fewer steps and less screen area than this demonstration solution.

Secretly, I have a bias for what they did on the Newton. Dragging the selection to the side of the screen to copy or cut, then dragging it back to paste seems much easier to use for me than what Proximi has described here. Whatever Apple designs doesn't have to be a clone of copy and paste as we know it. It just has to fulfill the same function.

I'd love to see someone try that out a variant of the Newton solution to see how well (or poorly) it works on iPhone. Of course, the Newton had a physically larger screen so starting a selection at any given character was much easier. I suspect selecting text on iPhone will always involve shananigans with the loupe.

BTW, AFAIK, Apple didn't patent the original copy and paste solution, I don't know why they would patent whatever they come up with now.

 

[Project]

People are drooling over this as if it was something never done before. Any smart phone from 8 years back has had this common and necessary feature.:

Well thats BS because Microsoft only just implemented it as standard across all SKUs in version 6 of Windows Mobile.

 

[Jstick]

What's so amazing about copy and paste? When would u honestly ever use it on your phone?

web browsing: you see a term you want to google, or an excerpt you want to paste and email to your friends....etc. I am sure ppl have more


you get a.........................MMS!!! and you can copy and paste either the login or pw so you dont have to try and memorize it......

 

[Jstick]

These guys at magicpad are quite dumb (sorry.)
Now, Apple will now never implement it like they say. Because It cannot be pantented, once it has been published publicly.

They should have petented it before the video, then Apple might have bought off the patent.

Now it will be neither.

....i am not a patent connoisseur, but i was thinking about that to. is what you say true? it seems to make sense. i dont know anything about the legality of patents.

 

[joseph2166]

It's more work, and it's not an intuitive process.

Whenever there are timed processes involved in UI, especially one that would be used so often, it both adds unnecessary complexity (and therefore time) to the process, and a greater margin for error. Can you imagine the frustration of not tapping with the correct timing (which is not so hard to imagine on any touch screen), and having the phone reset your taps so that it takes 5 minutes of frustration to (using the precision model) select your text.

Yeh I agree. It's like that silly double click action on computers - who thought of that? It'll never catch on.

This is a very professional and very elegant looking solution in my opinion - AND it solves the other problem of how to format text system wide without a clumsy developer-made solution in specific apps. Lets hope Apple gets in contact with these guys.

 

[schubes]

What's so amazing about copy and paste? When would u honestly ever use it on your phone?

Sending someone a link, copying a tracking or phone number, lots of things.

Copy/paste would also be a good way to effectively forward a text message, which is a feature I feel is also missing

 

[iNfowarrior]

Take off your blinders pls. Why can't you just say you're disappointed that you can't copy/paste yet? I want the feature as much as the next guy, but saying Apple doesn't take initiative is blatantly false.

What are you talking about? Its blatantly true. There is no debate. Apple has neglected copy and paste. As a basic text entering functionality, it is in fact unimaginable that it would not be included in the very first release of the iphone. We are a year PAST that now.

"Laughable" doesn't even approach how ridiculous it is.

 

[jdechko]

For those saying double-tap-and-hold, it's been mentioned that this will be extremely imprecise. I think the loupe is going to be the standard starting point for any text editing. For instance, Tap-and-hold, position the cursor, double-tap to begin selection, single-finger drag to position the end of the selection, double-tap to end selection and bring up the contextual menu (cut, copy, paste, cancel).

We all have different ideas of how this is implemented. We all think they will work fine. But Apple are the ones actually coding this, and testing it out. They have to be sure that by implementing one solution over another that all existing functionality remains the same. Personally, I'd be angry if they re-assigned any of the existing multi-touch gestures as would millions of others. And as such, I think that the folks at MagicPad are impatient jerks who are going to screw a lot of people over but getting them used to one functionality, which I'd almost guarantee won't be the way Apple does it.


Another issue, as mentioned is that the loupe only appears in text-entry boxes, so safari, sms, email, etc. are out. Apple would have to implement the selection process in *all* applications.

A possible option is that Apple are going to add another keyboard mode that allows directional arrows, insert, home, end, page up/down, and dedicated c/c/p controls. Who here really knows?

My point is, we need to be patient. Apple has a lot of things to deal with regarding c/c/p. They've painted themselves into a corner with the limited hardware buttons, but I'm sure they'll work it out one way or another.

EDIT: Partially out of curiosity, and partially out of necessity for our sanity, I'm trying to think of all the multi-touch gestures implemented on the iphone and what they accomplish. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

So far, I've got:

Flick & Drag - Navigation, scroll

Tap - Selection
Double Tap - Zoom for Safari, pictures, maps (zoom in only ?), iPod
Two-Finger Tap - Zoom out in maps.
Pinch in/out - Zoom in/out for Safari, pictures, maps

Tap-and-hold - Magnification for text input pointer (entire platform)

 

[arn]

Another issue, as mentioned is that the loupe only appears in text-entry boxes, so safari, sms, email, etc. are out. Apple would have to implement the selection process in *all* applications.

If you watched the video, it addresses most of the things you mention.

arn

 

[koobcamuk]

....i am not a patent connoisseur, but i was thinking about that to. is what you say true? it seems to make sense. i dont know anything about the legality of patents.

me neither. we'll see now.

 

[vladyslav]

Copy & Paste

IMO all this double tap thing is just too confusing. What do we do on our laptops to copy and paste? At least i use the combination of trackpad and trackpad button to select text. Why wouldn't we use the same method here? IMO the easiest way to select text would be to press and hold HOME button while in the loupe mode. And then - to paste - just second finger tap while in the loupe mode again. Wouldn't this method be the easiest and the most intuitive? In Safari or any other program, for that matter, pressing and holding the home button while you are holding your finger on the beginning of the text will bring the loupe. I reckon using this method will bring minimal changes to the existing UI and be very intuitive. BTW Apple has already implemented the use of home button for making screenshots. Your thoughts are welcome.