Major design flaw which has child safety implications

[darthbane2k]

Picked up a Neo for my kid.
I’ve noticed a major flaw in that there is no webcam light. Other MacBooks have a light that cannot be disabled when the camera is in use. The Neo does not have this and only relies on the software indicator in the menu bar, which with malicious programming can easily be disabled. This has huge security implications for the school aged children Apple are primarily targeting with this product.

This was a dumb decision on Apple’s part , otherwise the Neo is a great product.

I will now have to look into an adhesive webcam cover that is thin enough to not shatter the screen when the laptop is closed. Any recommendations would be appreciated.

 

[4sallypat]

Just put a piece of tape over the camera if you are worried.

Most of our students using Chromebooks will slide the privacy cover over the webcam.

It's not a safety issue and I'd worry more about your child's data being stolen or held for ransom that school districts have been hacked!

 

[JPack]

Don't be silly. iPad and iPhone both use this type of indicator.

 

[raythompsontn]

which with malicious programming can easily be disabled

If malicious software is going to target MacOS, I doubt the camera indicator would be the goal.

 

[darthbane2k]

Don't be silly. iPad and iPhone both use this type of indicator.

Not being silly at all.
Firstly - iOS and iPad OS are a LOT more locked down than Mac OS
Secondly, this has always been a feature of Macs that Apple themselves promote. Just seems dumb to remove it from a product that is largely targetting students and school children.

Don't close your MacBook, MacBook Air or MacBook Pro with a cover over the camera – Apple Support (UK)

Closing your Mac laptop with a camera cover on it may damage your display. Designed to protect your privacy, Mac laptops have a camera indicator light to let you know when the camera is on.

support.apple.com

 

[thejadedmonkey]

That's actually, very scary. There was a scandal a few years ago where school administrators were caught taking photos from student webcams while they were in their bedroom.

$610K Settlement in School Webcam Spy Case

Philadelphia-Area District Ordered to Pay for Watching Kids at Home Via Webcams on School-Issued Laptops

www.cbsnews.com

 

[hans1972]

Picked up a Neo for my kid.
I’ve noticed a major flaw in that there is no webcam light. Other MacBooks have a light that cannot be disabled when the camera is in use. The Neo does not have this and only relies on the software indicator in the menu bar, which with malicious programming can easily be disabled. This has huge security implications for the school aged children Apple are primarily targeting with this product.

It's secured by hardware also. It's the same security which is on iPhones and iPads.

"MacBook Neo combines system software and dedicated silicon elements within A18 Pro to provide additional security for the camera feed. The architecture is designed to prevent any untrusted software—even with root or kernel privileges in macOS—from engaging the camera without also visibly lighting the on-screen camera indicator light."

Mac on-screen camera indicator light

MacBook Neo has dedicated silicon and system software to process and secure the camera feed.

support.apple.com

 

[WarmWinterHat]

Picked up a Neo for my kid.
I’ve noticed a major flaw in that there is no webcam light. Other MacBooks have a light that cannot be disabled when the camera is in use. The Neo does not have this and only relies on the software indicator in the menu bar, which with malicious programming can easily be disabled. This has huge security implications for the school aged children Apple are primarily targeting with this product.

This was a dumb decision on Apple’s part , otherwise the Neo is a great product.

I will now have to look into an adhesive webcam cover that is thin enough to not shatter the screen when the laptop is closed. Any recommendations would be appreciated.

Saying it can easily disabled is conjecture. That said, put a piece of dark tape over it you're concerned. I keep a sticker over my work laptop's cam since it's company owned and I'm not an admin.

Personally, I have never liked having cameras built-in to my laptops (or monitors) to begin with, and would rather hook up an external if wanted/needed.

 

[AppleWes]

That's actually, very scary. There was a scandal a few years ago where school administrators were caught taking photos from student webcams while they were in their bedroom.

Always tape over webcams, anyone who trusts a school or corporate computer in their bedroom is asking for trouble.

I'm not victim blaming just in general I would not trust my work computer (in private space at home) since company owns it and can basically do whatever they want.

 

[Zazoh]

This statistic is old. In the late 90s it was estimated the average person appears on 17 different cameras a day. It has to be higher now. I know in my neighborhood when someone asks if anyone saw anything at ____ time of day a half-dozen folks will respond with camera images.

One should always assume they are on camera.

 

[Fallforward]

Picked up a Neo for my kid.
I’ve noticed a major flaw in that there is no webcam light. Other MacBooks have a light that cannot be disabled when the camera is in use. The Neo does not have this and only relies on the software indicator in the menu bar, which with malicious programming can easily be disabled. This has huge security implications for the school aged children Apple are primarily targeting with this product.

This was a dumb decision on Apple’s part , otherwise the Neo is a great product.

I will now have to look into an adhesive webcam cover that is thin enough to not shatter the screen when the laptop is closed. Any recommendations would be appreciated.

We prefer to cover it regardless indicators. We have always used a bit of black electrical tape because it blends in, is easy to remove and put back, and no residue.

 

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

Gruber has taken some screen shots to show the new on-screen camera indicator in action:

Apple’s Platform Security Guide Adds a Brief Note on the MacBook Neo’s On-Screen Camera Indicator

Link to: https://support.apple.com/guide/security/mac-on-screen-camera-indicator-light-sec75a2d237d/1/web/1

daringfireball.net

 

[darthbane2k]

Gruber has taken some screen shots to show the new on-screen camera indicator in action:

Apple’s Platform Security Guide Adds a Brief Note on the MacBook Neo’s On-Screen Camera Indicator

Link to: https://support.apple.com/guide/security/mac-on-screen-camera-indicator-light-sec75a2d237d/1/web/1

daringfireball.net

Thanks for that

 

[ivnj]

Why does a camera need a light?

 

[ivnj]

The Container Store

Currently using this.

 

[tonmischa]

Why does a camera need a light?

As an indicator that software is asking it to record video.

 

[p33t3r]

Gruber to the rescue again: https://daringfireball.net/2026/03/apple_enclaves_neo_camera_indicator

 

[tonmischa]

Other MacBooks have a light that cannot be disabled when the camera is in use. The Neo does not have this and only relies on the software indicator in the menu bar, which with malicious programming can easily be disabled.

Honest question:
Why do you think that it is easy to switch off the indicator light in the menu bar, but nearly impossible to switch off the physical LED light next to the camera?
Aren't they both controlled by the same piece of software?

 

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

MacBook Neo combines system software and dedicated silicon elements within A18 Pro to provide additional security for the camera feed. The architecture is designed to prevent any untrusted software—even with root or kernel privileges in macOS—from engaging the camera without also visibly lighting the on-screen camera indicator light.

Mac on-screen camera indicator light

MacBook Neo has dedicated silicon and system software to process and secure the camera feed.

support.apple.com

 

[adrianlondon]

The problem (says I, having never seen a Neo in real life) is not that the camera activation light can be disabled ("easily be disabled" is a description the OP invented) but that it's on the main display.

Change the background to the same colour green as the indiction light and you won't easily see it.

 

[theluggage]

Honest question:
Why do you think that it is easy to switch off the indicator light in the menu bar, but nearly impossible to switch off the physical LED light next to the camera?
Aren't they both controlled by the same piece of software?

In principle, a light on the camera could (and should) be hardwired into the camera circuitry so it was physically impossible for the camera to work without the light coming on. However, I would have zero confidence that every webcam implements it that way when it’s so easy just to do it in software…

Anyway, a light right beside the camera is far more obvious and meaningful than an orange blob on the screen amidst all the other clutter.

I think the criticism is valid, but hardly unique to the Neo - the on-screen warning is no less secure than on the iPad. Concerned parents should have gatekeeper activated to lock the device down to the App Store. A physical shutter over the camera would be a good belt-and-braces feature too (but ugly).

 

[novagamer]

The hardware camera light on macs WAS exploited, I'm shocked more people don't know this. There was malware that toggled the camera very very fast so the light didn't have time to engage and it took photos of users. Newer versions are presumably more robust but all of those original models that had it as a safety feature were not immune to attack.

Their software and security engineering around the light (and now a mic light) is very well implemented.

 

[joeblow7777]

Picked up a Neo for my kid.
I’ve noticed a major flaw in that there is no webcam light. Other MacBooks have a light that cannot be disabled when the camera is in use. The Neo does not have this and only relies on the software indicator in the menu bar, which with malicious programming can easily be disabled. This has huge security implications for the school aged children Apple are primarily targeting with this product.

This was a dumb decision on Apple’s part , otherwise the Neo is a great product.

I will now have to look into an adhesive webcam cover that is thin enough to not shatter the screen when the laptop is closed. Any recommendations would be appreciated.

Isn't the light controlled by software/firmware too? The only way to be 100% certain that a webcam isn't being used is to physically cover it.

 

[tonmischa]

a light right beside the camera is far more obvious and meaningful

I agree completely, but that is not what OP was talking about.
OP just assumes that the physical light is more „secure“ (less likely to get hacked) than the menu bar light.
And I don’t believe that to be true.

 

[JPack]

All of this comes down to OP's misinformed belief that iOS/iPadOS is somehow more "locked down" compared to macOS as it relates to the privacy indicator.

Whether the user looks up or to the corner for the green indicator is simply a matter of habit.

Neo is marketed at first time Mac users, so it's perfectly understandable for Apple to move the indicator. The users haven't yet established a habit.