Major gaming news at WWDC: Metal and New games

[MRMSFC]

Apple partnering with Corsair on a Mac gaming keyboard and mouse was not on my bingo card.

Apple’s First Gaming Keyboard and Mouse Aren’t Made by Apple at All

Apple has partnered with Corsair for its first gaming keyboard and mouse that might make you feel like a real gamer on MacBook or Mac mini.

gizmodo.com

Interesting development, but I would prefer Apple finally making a half decent Mouse.

As for the keyboard, the price puts it squarely in the range of Keychron, and it would have to be damn good to beat Keychron.

 

[M4pro]

Looks as if we got an official release date for Control in the article. It says Feb 2025.

Yep. Feb 12th
(Remedy needs to proofread / update their ad, ha ha)

 

[diamond.g]

Yep. Feb 12th
(Remedy needs to proofread / update their ad, ha ha)

Speaking of, did you guys see the news that Control 2 is going to be marketed as an Action RPG. I'm not sure how I feel about it going from Action Adventure to RPG. I mean I understand there are RPG elements in the game, but nothing overtly obvious (I mean really it is just the skill tree).

 

[dmccloud]

That's promising indeed, but I suspect that the 4090 is being limited by the intel CPU at that resolution. That may be particularly true for the RoTR test, where the Mac crushes the PC despite using Rosetta.

While it is possible the game is being CPU limited, it's impossible to say for sure if the specific CPU isn't even listed. But chances are that's a mobile variant of the CPU anyways, so it's probably wattage and performance constrained anyways.

Apple partnering with Corsair on a Mac gaming keyboard and mouse was not on my bingo card.

Apple’s First Gaming Keyboard and Mouse Aren’t Made by Apple at All

Apple has partnered with Corsair for its first gaming keyboard and mouse that might make you feel like a real gamer on MacBook or Mac mini.

gizmodo.com

Having used iCUE software on my gaming PC, I don't want that buggy junk anywhere near my Mac.

 

[Homy]

Control can be pre-ordered now for $40. It's 28.53GB large.

‎Control Ultimate Edition

‎A corruptive presence has invaded the Federal Bureau of Control…Only you have the power to stop it. The world is now your weapon in an epic fight to annihilate an ominous enemy through deep and unpredictable environments. Containment has failed, humanity is at stake. Will you regain control...

apps.apple.com

 

[Nugat Trailers]

Virtual Programming has updated their site with the 3 games they're working on bringing to Mac next.

Home

www.vpltd.com

DayZ
Vigor (free to play looter shooter)
Both of the above are by Bohemia

The Witcher III: Wild Hunt

(They've ported The Witcher 2 to Mac in the past, using a wrapper, but that was a separate version from the current Mac version, and have ported Arma III to Mac, including updating it to run natively)

 

[Homy]

Virtual Programming has updated their site with the 3 games they're working on bringing to Mac next.

Home

www.vpltd.com

DayZ
Vigor (free to play looter shooter)
Both of the above are by Bohemia

The Witcher III: Wild Hunt

(They've ported The Witcher 2 to Mac in the past, using a wrapper, but that was a separate version from the current Mac version, and have ported Arma III to Mac, including updating it to run natively)

Wait WHAT? Witcher 3? You got to be kidding me. Right after Cyberpunk news? AHAHAHAHA! It’s almost as if it’s a fake site and news but it’s true. VP is legit. 😜🤣

But why does the page lists W3 under "Released products" and not "In development"?

 

[damienDevZ]

Wait WHAT? Witcher 3? You got to be kidding me. Right after Cyberpunk news? AHAHAHAHA! It’s almost as if it’s a fake site and news but it’s true. VP is legit. 😜🤣

But why does the page lists W3 under "Released products" and not "In development"?

Also was looking at this, was wondering why it’s listed under released. Went immediately to the Witcher website to see if it was a surprise drop Mac release. Either way, glad to see even more games coming to Mac!

 

[Homy]

Also was looking at this, was wondering why it’s listed under released. Went immediately to the Witcher website to see if it was a surprise drop Mac release. Either way, glad to see even more games coming to Mac!

I think I will simply email them and ask. They should be able to say something since the game is already on their site.

 

[diamond.g]

I think I will simply email them and ask. They should be able to say something since the game is already on their site.

I wonder if they are porting the "updated" version. Not even sure if performance in the updated version ever got fixed.

 

[jeanlain]

Has VP worked on porting the game to consoles? Maybe they just added the Apple logo by mistake. Or maybe some intern in charge of updating their website confused II with III.
I'm not sure why CDPR would not port the game themselves. VP are not reputed for the quality of their ports.

 

[Homy]

I think path tracing in Cyberpunk on anything other than M4 Max/Ultra will be disappointing. On 4080 the performance drops about 60% with RT and 70% with PT at 4K with DLSS 3.7.20 Quality/Balanced and Ultra settings. Of course you can lower the settings but still you'll need a powerful M3/M4 Mac.

 

[Wheel_D]

I think path tracing in Cyberpunk on anything other than M4 Max/Ultra will be disappointing. On 4080 the performance drops about 60% with RT and 70% with PT at 4K with DLSS 3.7.20 Quality/Balanced and Ultra settings. Of course you can lower the settings but still you'll need a powerful M3/M4 Mac.

Thanks--what an interesting comparison! I hadn't heard of path tracing. To me, it seemed like the path tracing demonstrations were generally--but not always--more realistic than the ray tracing examples.

Is ray tracing a subset of path tracing, or is path tracing an evolution of the ray tracing concept?

 

[Homy]

Thanks--what an interesting comparison! I hadn't heard of path tracing. To me, it seemed like the path tracing demonstrations were generally--but not always--more realistic than the ray tracing examples.

Is ray tracing a subset of path tracing, or is path tracing an evolution of the ray tracing concept?

I think this article explains the difference well. As I understand ray tracing is a realistic, natural and precise way of following and calculating the path of light rays for each pixel in a scene from the source to a surface and after the rays bounce off to other surfaces. The downside is that this must be done for every ray and it gets very demanding. That’s why it’s restricted to only shadows and reflections and now to global illumination in some games.

Path tracing is an evolution of ray tracing but also a different method. Instead of sending single light rays from the source at a time and following them the whole way you send hundreds or thousands of rays at once and track the rays when they bounce randomly off a surface. This is more difficult to calculate on the surface due to the higher number of rays but easier to render since you don’t have to track every ray on each pixel back to the source, only a sample of the rays. It’s like average fps of every fps in a game. Path tracing uses ray tracing together with Monte Carlo simulation which is based on repeated random sampling to solve an impossible task. It means close enough is good enough but it also means it’s not perfect and must be combined with denoising to hide image artifacts. RT/PT doesn’t always add better quality to games either while impacting the fps negatively, like in Hogwarts Legacy.

Ray tracing vs. path tracing — which is the best dynamic lighting technique?

Ray tracing and path tracing are two advanced lighting effects that are making modern games look amazing, but which is better and how do they work?

www.digitaltrends.com

 

[diamond.g]

I don't think Hogwarts uses path tracing.

IIRC only like 5 games have path tracing CP2077, AW2, Portal RTX, Quake RTX, and Minecraft RT (non-Java Edition). And even ten I am not sure about Minecraft.

 

[Mac_fan75]

I think path tracing in Cyberpunk on anything other than M4 Max/Ultra will be disappointing. On 4080 the performance drops about 60% with RT and 70% with PT at 4K with DLSS 3.7.20 Quality/Balanced and Ultra settings. Of course you can lower the settings but still you'll need a powerful M3/M4 Mac.

Yeah and for this you really need like AI scaling like DLSSv3+ or what Sony is using on the PS5 Pro or FPS will really suck and Apple doesn't have or the game developers might use the AMD variant on Mac.

 

[Homy]

Rugby League Team Manager 4 is coming to Mac in Early Access on Dec 6.

Rugby League Team Manager 4 on Steam

The fourth instalment of “The Number 1 Rugby League Management Game”. The biggest leagues and competitions. Take full control of managing your own Rugby League club. Training schedules, coaches, physios, scouting, finances, sponsors and more. MUCH MORE!

store.steampowered.com

 

[Homy]

Yeah and for this you really need like AI scaling like DLSSv3+ or what Sony is using on the PS5 Pro or FPS will really suck and Apple doesn't have or the game developers might use the AMD variant on Mac.

Apple has MetalFX upscaling.

 

[Homy]

I don't think Hogwarts uses path tracing.

IIRC only like 5 games have path tracing CP2077, AW2, Portal RTX, Quake RTX, and Minecraft RT (non-Java Edition). And even ten I am not sure about Minecraft.

I wasn't clear enough but was referring to this part in the article: "There are also many modern examples of traditionally rasterized games where ray traced or path traced lighting adds very little to the experience, while completely tanking frame rates — like Hogwarts Legacy."

 

[Mac_fan75]

Apple has MetalFX upscaling.

Yeah not comparable to DLSSv3 or PS5 Pro upscaling is what i meant.

 

[OptimusGrime]

Yeah not comparable to DLSSv3 or PS5 Pro upscaling is what i meant.

MetalFX doesn’t have frame gen, but it’s temporal upscaler is very good. Digital Foundry reviewed it.

 

[Mac_fan75]

MetalFX doesn’t have frame gen, but it’s temporal upscaler is very good. Digital Foundry reviewed it.

We know, but with path or ray tracing you need frame gen for decent FPS. If a 4080 can't do it a M4 Max surely can't, so would be curious to see what Apple can offer in the future with this kind of tech especially if you see Sony and their PS5 Pro upscaling.

 

[OptimusGrime]

We know, but with path or ray tracing you need frame gen for decent FPS. If a 4080 can't do it a M4 Max surely can't, so would be curious to see what Apple can offer in the future with this kind of tech especially if you see Sony and their PS5 Pro upscaling.

Yeah. I’m still curious what they will do with CP2077. The press release mentioned frame gen, but I assume that will be FSR.

 

[diamond.g]

I wasn't clear enough but was referring to this part in the article: "There are also many modern examples of traditionally rasterized games where ray traced or path traced lighting adds very little to the experience, while completely tanking frame rates — like Hogwarts Legacy."

Ah yeah. Hardware unboxed had a video I linked somewhere that talked about the games where RT actually made a visual difference.

 

[M4pro]

Yeah and for this you really need like AI scaling …. and Apple doesn't have …

Hmmm, it might not be as simple as saying Apple doesn’t leverage their NPU.

Metal FX might already be doing some of the TAA work there…


philipturner
Apr ’23

MetalFX TAA actually does use the ANE. I was ray tracing at 120 Hz, and the GPU was using only 2 W (frame time was 4 milliseconds out of 8.3). It was using the lower 300-500 MHz clock speeds to decrease power consumption beyond what you'd think is possible. However, it also used the ANE to 80 mW. The ANE was at 0 watts when MetalFX was off, and 80 mW exactly the moment MetalFX turned on. I also got some error messages from the Xcode console about the ANE, whenever I used Metal Frame Capture.

This could explain why in Apple's MetalFX video, they stress giving you the ability to overlap work from different frames. I imagine the ANE has incredible latency to access, or some peculiarities in how it's accessed. MetalFX has a pipeline that runs, and automatically finishes in time for your next frame submission. It's executing work sporadically throughput the entire frame, presumably to hide some kind of latency. It might be shuffling work back and forth between the GPU and ANE.