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Major gaming news at WWDC: Metal and New games


Jesus Christ. Spiderman Remastered, Elden Ring, Deep Rock Galactic, Hogwarts Legacy, Horizon Zero Dawn, Diablo 4, AND CYBERPUNK, all running perfectly day one out of the box with the game porting toolkit

Someone please test Persona 5 Royal for me. If P5R works it's over. I will have no reason to keep my Windows PC anymore.
 
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galad said:
No, "Composited" means the game window is being composited by the windows server, which is an additional pass that takes a bit of time. "Direct" means the windows server runs in an optimised mode and display the game directly bypassing the additional rendering pass.
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Indeed
 
Numa_Numa_eh said:
Hmm. I disagree with this person. People are gettting too excited. This is not how Apple is going to go I feel. We’ve already seen feral say they won’t port more games to Linux due to proton. Apple won’t want that to happen. This is for development only. Have fun but this isn’t a long yet solution.
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I posted that because of what he said about CPU/GPU perfromance in his talks with Apple/Blizzard people. I agree this is not what Apple wants, neither do I. We see that obviously there is a performnace penalty and games get double the performance or more with native ports. Nobody wants Mac gaming be dead before it's even reborn, the same way as native Linux gaming. That's why the license seems to be restrictive. Judging by Andrew Tsai's video it's not a easy task either to get the games running in porting toolkit by themselves so only few will take advantage of that possibility.

Still it's exciting to see all the new games people have dreamt about suddenly run, especially like Diablo IV just after the release. I hope this encourages developers to see now it's easier than ever to port their games to Mac and they don't have to spend months on evaluating, but only days.
 
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Homy said:
I posted that because of what he said about CPU/GPU perfromance in his talks with Apple/Blizzard people. I agree this is not what Apple wants, neither do I. We see that obviously there is a performnace penalty and games get double the performance or more with native ports. Nobody wants Mac gaming be dead before it's even reborn, the same way as Linux gaming. That's why the license seems to be restrictive. Judging by Andrew Tsai's video it's not a easy task either to get the games running in porting toolkit by themselves so only few will take advantage of that possibility.

Still it's exciting to see all the new games people have dreamt about suddenly run, especially like Diablo IV just after the release. I hope this encourage developers to see now it's easier than ever to port their games to Mac and they don't have to spend months on evaluating, but only days.
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Can you stop saying Linux gaming is dead? Linux Gaming ain't dead because everyone's moved to compatibility layers lmao.
 
Homy said:
I posted that because of what he said about CPU/GPU perfromance in his talks with Apple/Blizzard people. I agree this is not what Apple wants, neither do I. We see that obviously there is a performnace penalty and games get double the performance or more with native ports. Nobody wants Mac gaming be dead before it's even reborn, the same way as Linux gaming. That's why the license seems to be restrictive. Judging by Andrew Tsai's video it's not a easy task either to get the games running in porting toolkit by themselves so only few will take advantage of that possibility.

Still it's exciting to see all the new games people have dreamt about suddenly run, especially like Diablo IV just after the release. I hope this encourage developers to see now it's easier than ever to port their games to Mac and they don't have to spend months on evaluating, but only days.
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I agree it’s exciting. I don’t think it’s a long term solution but I could be wrong. If it ends up helping ports then it will be worth it.
 
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Numa_Numa_eh said:
It kinda is dead though. A compatibility later isn’t a help for Linux devs. it’s a hack that although fun, is to the long term health of the platform. It why I’m concerned about peoples reaction to porting kit.
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Steam gets two million monthly active Linux users and in it's first six months the Steam Deck sold three million units and is still growing. How the hell is that dead lmao?
 
Spaceboi Scaphandre said:
Steam gets two million monthly active Linux users and in six months the Steam Deck sold three million units and is still growing. How the hell is that dead lmao?
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Because few of those games have been written for Linux. Those numbers are great for valve, but they do nothing to help a Linux dev, and if you want your platform to thrive, then there has to be a market for them.
 
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Numa_Numa_eh said:
Because few of those games have been written for Linux. Those numbers are great for valve, but they do nothing to help a Linux dev, and if you want your platform to thrive, then there has to be a market for them.
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You do know a lot of console ports to PC are using compatibility layers right? Or the fact every old DOS game is playable on modern PCs and Macs thanks to DOSBox, a compatibility layer.

So to say Linux gaming is "dead" because most aren't doing native ports anymore, ports that frankly run worse than they do via Proton, is laughable and why PC users make fun of y'all.

The concept of a Proton like compatibility layer on Mac is bringing positive press and bringing attention to the Mac. Gamers are actually getting excited at seeing Diablo 4 and Spiderman running on Mac out of the box using just the compatibility layer and want to see their favorite games running on it.

This is your chance to have Mac gaming not be viewed as a joke anymore, which in turn would get a lot of people to switch to Mac. Embrace it, not reject it.
 
Numa_Numa_eh said:
Because few of those games have been written for Linux. Those numbers are great for valve, but they do nothing to help a Linux dev, and if you want your platform to thrive, then there has to be a market for them.
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Yes, Proton is great for users but Valve is the one making money on selling games and Steam deck. Apple has also a financial reason and wants games in its App Store. With a compatibility layer there would be no games or additional money for Apple. As said before native ports on Mac give also double the performance.

On another note people have made a lot of doom and gloom about Rosetta and all the games that will stop working soon but this now shows that Apple is not abandoning Rosetta anytime soon since the whole porting toolkit is based upon Rosetta. Very good news for all those old non-native titles!
 
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Accodring to some people Codeweavers can indeed use the source code for Apple's game porting toolkit in Crossover accodring to the GNU license. They already sell Crossover under the same license agreement. Game develpers on the other hand can't since they would have to release their source code.
 
New DLC is out


I also saw that Hello Games' latest game The Last Campfire was already ported to Mac on MAS so people complaining NMS is old can play that one instead. 😄

store.steampowered.com

The Last Campfire on Steam

The Last Campfire is an adventure, a story of a lost ember trapped in a puzzling place, searching for meaning and a way home.
store.steampowered.com store.steampowered.com
 
I think we are approaching this from different perspectives. You see it as a way to run lots more games, and that's understandable. I am approaching it from the perspective of a developer.
Spaceboi Scaphandre said:
You do know a lot of console ports to PC are using compatibility layers right? Or the fact every old DOS game is playable on modern PCs and Macs thanks to DOSBox, a compatibility layer.
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Of course, but in that case a company has made the conscious effort to port their game to a different platform, people are employed and customers pay for that game on that platform. In the case of Proton, no linux dev is benefitting. It's running a windows game with no or extremely minimal effort.
Spaceboi Scaphandre said:
So to say Linux gaming is "dead" because most aren't doing native ports anymore, ports that frankly run worse than they do via Proton, is laughable and why PC users make fun of y'all.
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Again from the perspective of an end user, which is fine, but does nothing to help the Linux dev community.
Spaceboi Scaphandre said:
The concept of a Proton like compatibility layer on Mac is bringing positive press and bringing attention to the Mac. Gamers are actually getting excited at seeing Diablo 4 and Spiderman running on Mac out of the box using just the compatibility layer and want to see their favorite games running on it.
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A short term solution that just feeds the narrative that macs perform poorly.
Spaceboi Scaphandre said:
This is your chance to have Mac gaming not be viewed as a joke anymore, which in turn would get a lot of people to switch to Mac. Embrace it, not reject it.
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Let me let you in on a secret, I simply do not spend any time worrying about others opinion of my computing choices.
 
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Homy said:
Accodring to some people Codeweavers can indeed use the source code for Apple's game porting toolkit in Crossover accodring to the GNU license. They already sell Crossover under the same license agreement. Game develpers on the other hand can't since they would have to release their source code.
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Is Apple's translation layer open source? Has Apple added it to Wine?
 
Just after a major release on Mac Hello Games now announced a new expedition.


www.nomanssky.com

Expedition Ten: Singularity - No Man's Sky

Hello Everyone! Only last week, we launched No Man’s Sky on a whole new platform, bringing the galaxy to Mac owners everywhere! 2023 has already been an extremely busy year for our small team. Fractal brought full native support for PSVR2, alongside a spread of accessibility and quality of life...
www.nomanssky.com www.nomanssky.com
 
Homy said:
Accodring to some people Codeweavers can indeed use the source code for Apple's game porting toolkit in Crossover accodring to the GNU license. They already sell Crossover under the same license agreement. Game develpers on the other hand can't since they would have to release their source code.
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So that essentially means someone could make a compatibility layer using the game porting kit so we can get games on macOS faster, or hell Valve could get Proton on Mac

Good things are ahead. Very good things.
 
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Homy said:
Yes, Proton is great for users but Valve is the one making money on selling games and Steam deck. Apple has also a financial reason and wants games in its App Store. With a compatibility layer there would be no games or additional money for Apple. As said before native ports on Mac give also double the performance.
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What makes you think game devs are gonna put their games on the App Store using the game porting toolkit? They could very will just continue ignoring that god awful store and put them on Steam, just as they've been doing before.

Homy said:
On another note people have made a lot of doom and gloom about Rosetta and all the games that will stop working soon but this now shows that Apple is not abandoning Rosetta anytime soon since the whole porting toolkit is based upon Rosetta. Very good news for all those old non-native titles!
Click to expand...

I TOLD YOU MANY TIMES ROSETTA WASN'T GONNA GET ABANDONED! This isn't PPC. PPC was a dead architecture, x86 is not. The only way x86 will die is if both AMD and Intel stop making x86 processors, which ain't happening.
 
Spaceboi Scaphandre said:
What makes you think game devs are gonna put their games on the App Store using the game porting toolkit? They could very will just continue ignoring that god awful store and put them on Steam, just as they've been doing before.
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I never mentioned the app store. I dont care if they use it. A dev is getting paid if a port is done, no matter where it is sold.
 
Spaceboi Scaphandre said:
What makes you think game devs are gonna put their games on the App Store using the game porting toolkit? They could very will just continue ignoring that god awful store and put them on Steam, just as they've been doing before.
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No one is going to use the toolkit to directly release games. It's a tool, nothing else. Studios will still have to do native ports. Ignoring the capabilities of the toolkit, Apple has a word in this as well:
2. Permitted Agreement Uses and Restrictions.


A. License. Subject to the terms and conditions of this License, you are granted a limited, non-exclusive, non-transferable, personal copyright license to (i) install, internally use, and test the Apple Software for the sole purpose of developing, testing, or evaluating video games for use on Apple-branded products; (ii) sublicense the Apple Software to your third-party service providers (“Third-Party Service Providers”) solely for the purpose of exercising the foregoing Section 2A(i) rights on your behalf; and (iii) distribute the Apple Software solely for non-commercial purposes. You may make only as many internal use copies of the Apple Software as reasonably necessary to use the Apple Software as permitted under this License; provided that you reproduce on each copy of the Apple Software or portion thereof, all copyright or other proprietary notices contained on the original. You will be responsible for Third Party Service Provider’s compliance with the terms and conditions of this Agreement.
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Source: License Agreement coming with Game Porting Toolkit.
 
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Spaceboi Scaphandre said:
What makes you think game devs are gonna put their games on the App Store using the game porting toolkit? They could very will just continue ignoring that god awful store and put them on Steam, just as they've been doing before.
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All the devs that do put their games there, like Capcom, Hideo Kojima, Hello Games, Bloober Team, Piranha Bytes and more. With a compatibility layer there wouldn't be even any games on Steam.

Spaceboi Scaphandre said:
I TOLD YOU MANY TIMES ROSETTA WASN'T GONNA GET ABANDONED! This isn't PPC. PPC was a dead architecture, x86 is not. The only way x86 will die is if both AMD and Intel stop making x86 processors, which ain't happening.
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Must be mistaking me for someone else. I've tried myself to tell people this so no need to shout.
 
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