AMC Theaters seems to be rolling out new customer facing readers. Seems to be a standard Igencio machine. Doesn't have Chip or NFC activated yet so the wait continues for Apple Pay here, I guess until they roll them all out nationwide.
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Major Retailers that Support NFC Payments
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dontwalkhand
macrumors 604
Don’t forget after it’s rolled out it would be a few weeks to months prior to the certifications to be complete. The certs are required to get chip and NFC working.
Yeah, that's what I'm referring to. Will likely be months from now before it gets activated. Just wanted to note the progress being made.
MisterSavage
macrumors 603
I was very pleased by that and the fact I didn't have to hand over my iPhone to have the cashier scan my code from the reward app. They had a scanner on the counter.
reptarwilleatu
macrumors 6502
anyone know if Hooters actually takes Apple Pay? it shows it on their website
and in Maps
i asked when i was there last time though and they said no. is it maybe only for like take-out orders or something? that’s the only two places i was able to find any info on it.
and in Maps
i asked when i was there last time though and they said no. is it maybe only for like take-out orders or something? that’s the only two places i was able to find any info on it.
One location that I walked by a while back looked to have the typical US restaurant setup (PIN pads attached to server stations, as in nothing customer accessible). When I checked it on their website, I didn't see any of the above. I suspect it is mainly just for takeout orders, but who knows?
(Really, I stopped expecting that restaurants are going to bother with anything that would enable it a while ago. Chip and signature basically killed that as a possibility, IMO.)
lartola
macrumors 68020
Since Hooters is a sit down restaurant, I can assure you they don't accept Apple Pay on site as an NFC contactless payment. Not a single sit down restaurant in the US does that because they never want to use the wireless terminals that the waiters/waitresses can bring to the tables, like all restaurants in the rest of the world do, and instead continue taking away the patrons' cards like in the 1990s.
If Hooters accepts Apple Pay and/or Google Pay at all, they do so through their mobile app (which is basically an online payment instead of a contactless payment), but I have no idea if you can use the app to pay for your check when you dine on site or just for take out orders.
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Actually, I don't think chip and signature was what killed contactless payments at US restaurants. Chip and signature also exists in other countries such as Mexico and it has never stopped any restaurants from using wireless terminals at the patron's table to process the card payment, therefore allowing them to accept contactless payments too. I think contactless payment at US restaurants was actually killed by American patrons hating to have the payment terminal brought to their table, which is what seems to be leading US restaurants to opt for wired instead of wireless chip readers when they migrate from magnetic stripe to EMV (and also to them preferring to accept mobile payments via an app). It's an American thing.
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reptarwilleatu
macrumors 6502
i checked the app (which looks terrible) and no that’s not how it works. plus it’s only for take out and or delivery
There are a bunch of sit down restaurants that I go to that have terminals from which you pay - no one takes cards etc.
lartola
macrumors 68020
Yeah but what they usually have is tablet-style devices sitting on each table. No sit down restaurant in the US has the portable POS terminals that waiters can bring over when the patron is ready to pay, such as the ingenico move 2500 or verifone vx520, which also have a built in receipt printer and would be a more suitable scheme for fancy restaurants.
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Exactly. Because Hooters, like many other restaurants, won’t have wireless terminals on site, they can only accept apple pay or google pay in their app instead of accepting them via NFC like they should be doing. Not suprising at all that these mobile payments are also restricted to take out and/or delivery orders only. Other places such as ihop do the same. Without wireless POS devices, restaurants in the US may never be able to take any form of NFC contactless payment at all, including contactless cards.
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reptarwilleatu
macrumors 6502
I wouldn't say none, but that sort of setup is far less common in the US than elsewhere for various reasons.
Is it really an issue if Apple Pay is ultimately accepted via a restaurant's app or website instead? Obviously it's not ideal, but it's still causing the transaction to go through using tokenization (and provides many of the other benefits of wireless devices, such as getting rid of tip adjustment). In fact, for takeout orders, it could even get you out the door faster than waiting until you arrived at the location to pay.
lartola
macrumors 68020
Then why on earth are they advertising it as accepted?
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It is indeed an issue if Apple Pay is ultimately accepted via an app. If we have to download an app for each restaurant or other business we visit, we're going to fill up our devices with hundreds of apps and slow them down. Besides, using an app is a more limited approach that eliminates the option for restaurants to be able to accept forms of contactless payment that can't be used in-app such as Fitbit Pay, Garmin Pay or even contactless cards. Not to mention the issue of casual visits, where we might not want to download the app for a restaurant we don't expect to visit again soon such as while traveling. Furthermore, the habit of taking away a customer's card to process a payment is a giant security flaw and needs to be eliminated entirely, not just optionally. All restaurants outside the US did it years ago because anyone with no more than a pen and paper can write down the card details during the 5-10 minutes the card is kept out of the sight of its owner (can't believe Americans aren't worried about this, how naive). That's why it's a must to have the waiters or waitresses bring a wireless terminal to the table instead. As for the tip adjustment, the portable POS devices such as the ones I previously sent pictures of have an option called sale with tip, which allows to enter both the check amount and the tip before the card is inserted or the mobile device is tapped so no tip adjustment will be left to be made later (and the devices even offer some standard options to automatically calculate the tip such as 10%, 15% or 20%). As proof of this, I am attaching the image of the wireless terminal's payment slip from a restaurant in Mexico where I paid using Apple Pay from my apple watch (an original AW I had at the time).
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If you go to a particular restaurant often enough, it might be worthwhile to download the app. If not, Apple Pay is still supported via Safari, even IIRC on the iPhone.
Supporting Apple Pay via an app or website doesn't preclude anything else. That'd be like saying that stores aren't inclined to support AP because Samsung Pay already works without having to upgrade.
In fact, by supporting the Payment Request API on a website, it's trivial to support all of the mobile wallets that have Web support. Though since the big three (Apple, Google and Samsung) have far more use than the others, those would be the most logical ones to support.
If the vast majority of people eventually end up paying with the restaurant's app or website, doesn't that achieve the same thing?
Adding extra tip for yourself is something that will be caught extremely quickly. Not to mention that POS systems know exactly who served what table at what time, so the culprit is easily found.
As for just copying down the card details, I suspect that fraudsters get far more ROI from installing skimmers at gas stations/ATMs and installing POS malware than having individual servers risk jail time.
Again, something that can also be done via an app or website.
Look, I'm not saying that having to use an app/website for pay at the table is ideal. Ideally we'd have wireless devices, or at the very least have people paying at the front. Apparently that's not in the cards for most US restaurants, however, so something that will enable similar functionality relatively quickly without having to convince them to replace their new terminals literally months after installing them is a plus. Who knows, maybe there actually ends up being enough demand via the app that some restaurants decide to take a chance at making the rest pay at the front or something.
lartola
macrumors 68020
Supporting the required API allows to support all mobile wallets that have an online mode such as apple pay or Google Pay, but what about the ones that only work over nfc such as Garmin Pay or Fitbit Pay. And what about contactless cards? without tapping enabled, none of those can be accepted. And if restaurants use apps for mobile payments, they are clearly avoiding to enable nfc for tapping.
Besides, enabling tapping enables acceptance of every single mobile wallet or other nfc contactless payment in the planet at once, whether it is officially available in the country or not. I’m glad the owners of restaurants in Mexico don’t think like the owners of US restaurants do. Thanks to that I can already use apple pay at most restaurants in Mexico without having to wait until apple pay is officially launched in the country, if it ever happens.
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dontwalkhand
macrumors 604
All of my local locations are lame and only have "Showing UFC" on location highlights. NONE of the other cool stuff. And also, screw UFC. It doesn't even say free Wifi!
Again, I realize that it's not ideal that restaurant mobile wallet use requires an app or a website visit. However, I feel that any support for mobile wallets at restaurants is better than none. Or really, with any category of merchant; otherwise, we'd still be waiting for ExxonMobil pumps to support Apple Pay (for example).
Additionally, not having pay at the front/table also doesn't necessarily preclude* contactless cards. Many restaurants are using the exact same Ingenico and Verifone PIN pads that regular stores do, so it's not out of the question for servers simply to tap instead of insert once they become more common. Again, not ideal, but it at least allows contactless payment to be used.
Plus, if they're supported via app/website, it could very well spur demand for NFC as well. I suspect this is why Target ultimately gave in, for instance; they supported Apple Pay via their app almost from the beginning despite being part of MCX, after all.
* The US has no contactless limit for cards, so that won't be a reason why they can't be used at restaurants.
lartola
macrumors 68020
What about Fitbit and Garmin devices, which are fairly common to see people wearing? How would a US restaurant be able to accept payment by tapping one of those without pay at the table or front?
dontwalkhand
macrumors 604
lartola
macrumors 68020
They can't. Fitbit Pay and Garmin Pay only work on the watch itself and can only be used for NFC based payments at physical locations, not for in-app or online payments. The paired phone is only used to add new cards for the first time, but not for any payments. They're not like Apple Pay.
dontwalkhand
macrumors 604
What I mean is they can pull their phone out to use Apple Pay and not use the watch when at a sit in restaurant.
Never said they'd be able to. As mentioned before, it definitely isn't an ideal solution, but if NFC isn't going to be forthcoming any time soon...
lartola
macrumors 68020
Yeah for Apple Pay that works, but in my last post I specifically asked about Fitbit Pay and Garmin Pay, two mobile wallets for which pulling out the phone won't work because they are different from Apple Pay, and US restaurants seem to be leaving them out without even knowing. Besides, not everyone using a Fitbit or Garmin device has it paired with an iPhone.
lartola
macrumors 68020
Yeah the vx820's are usually connected by a cable directly to the merchant's computer or cash register, so the enabling of NFC on them has to be done at chain level rather than individually at each location. BTW many large retailer chains here in Mexico including Starbucks and most chains of supermarkets, convenience stores and other large retailers use the verifone vx820 pinpads too, but except for one of them (La Comer and City Market supermarkets), they all always have the NFC turned off even when the pinpads display the contactless logo on their screen, and only use the pinpads as chip card readers (the practice of swiping cards to read the magnetic stripe has long since been abandoned in Mexico for security reasons).
I have no idea, though, if the practice of keeping the NFC readers turned off is the merchants' own decision or if they are simply obeying an order from their payment provider or bank not to accept any contactless payment just yet. Banks in Mexico usually own the terminals and payment systems they supply, so they tend to dictate which forms of payment are to be accepted by their affiliated merchants and which not.
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