Mandela Effect

Discussion in 'Community Discussion' started by Project Alice, May 13, 2019.

  1. Project Alice macrumors 6502a

    Project Alice

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    #1
    Hi all, I thought this would be a fun and interesting topic to start up over here!
    How many of the mac community is familiar with the Mandela Effect? What are your experiences? I have had tons of personal experiences that are not talked about anywhere, as well as a few of the "mainstream" MEs.

    As I said I've had many personal experiences, but I'll start out with the first one.
    I remember clear as day, back in elementary school (I'm 24 as of writing) learning about Nelson Mandela, and how he died in prison before I was born. Fast forward to 2013, and the media is exploding about how he's just passed! I know a couple people who actually watched the televised funeral when he died the first time.
     
  2. Scepticalscribe Contributor

    Scepticalscribe

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    #2
    Sounds like fake news and dodgy history to me, rather than something "fun and interesting".

    No, I am not at all familiar with "the Mandela Effect".

    As it happens, I have no issue with (well told) 'alternative history' stories, as long as it is accepted that they belong in the realm of fiction or fantasy.

    Firstly, I had never heard of "the Mandela Effect" (initially, on clicking your thread, I assumed it was to do with the idea of a "philosopher king" as a ruler, someone who, while holding political power, attempts to preach an ethical existence by the way they live their lives and seek to influence political actions and actors).

    Secondly, (in Europe, as I cannot speak or write with authority about the state political awareness in the US), anyone who was remotely politically literate would have been perfectly aware of the fact that Nelson Mandela spent decades of his life in prison; in the 80s, the British group The Specials even had a hit entitled "Free Nelson Mandela".

    Thirdly, after his release from prison, - which was an event broadcast around the world in 1990, and arrangements were put in place following painstaking negotiations, allowing for a transition from white rule in South Africa, he was elected to office as President of South Africa.
     
  3. AlliFlowers Contributor

    AlliFlowers

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    #3
    I've also never heard of the Mandela Effect. Sounds like a good name for people who misremember things, or those people who see someone in a movie or on tv, and proclaim "I thought he was dead!"
     
  4. Scepticalscribe Contributor

    Scepticalscribe

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    #4
    While I can understand this "effect" for some people, those who disappear after whatever happened in their lives that made them famous, Nelson Mandela was very well known - worldwide - throughout his imprisonment, his release was broadcast live internationally, his political career following that was widely covered and much lauded as he was a highly respected political leader - which means that it comes as some surprise to me that there are individuals who thought he had died in prison.
     
  5. MikeLinke macrumors newbie

    MikeLinke

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    #5
    I don't believe in the Mandela Effect either, but I do think it's a fun scifi premise to think about, and reminds me of some Philip K Dick stories like "Flow My Tears the Policeman Said".

    A lot of people try to refute it by pointing out that people who live closer to the disputed event never experience the effect, and that therefor the effect is wholly attributable to ignorance or misinformation. This argument is invalid to people who believe in the effect. If the Effect is actually attributable to human consciousness being misplaced from one timeline or reality to another, wouldn't it make more sense that only those consciousnesses far removed from the affected event or fact would be candidates for being misplaced? The point of the effect is that you are exposed to an event or fact, such as Mandela dying in prison, or New Zealand being located North of Australia, or a large country existing between France and Spain, and then you carry on years of your life never having to think about this fact again before suddenly, decades later, finding out your previous recollection was impossibly wrong. The Effect IS NOT about looking at a map that showed New Zealand to the North, then blinking and seeing a map with New Zealand to the South. By definition the effect could only happen for literally ignorant people whose lives are impacted the least by the true position of New Zealand, or by the date of Mandela's death.
     
  6. decafjava macrumors 68030

    decafjava

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    #6
    I watched his release from prison and his walk to freedom live on TV! I was choked up and still am thinking about it. Sorry I am stuck in this universe and this timeline. I refused offers to time travel from the Doctor, the crew of both Enterprise A and D and some guy wearing a stars and stripes suit calling himself Captain America. [/sarcasm]

    I am interested in these types of phenomenon for what they tell us about human psychology and memory, and am not rejecting the idea of multiple universes as quantum theory has suggested.
     
  7. BenTrovato macrumors 68030

    BenTrovato

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    #7
    Haha brilliant. That's part of the effect. You remember it a certain way. You followed it as it occurred, you have a hard time believing such a big event broadcasted on the international stage could be perceived any other way - and yet it is. Personally, I followed the Mandela story so that one example doesn't apply to me but there are quite a few of them that blow me away. We are the champions by Queen always gets me.

    In our time, the science behind false memories is far stronger than understanding parallel realities. Science is just scratching the surface there, if that, so if anyone is looking for science to give you an answer, the science just hasn't arrived yet. I've had so many interesting conversations with people over these events. Really fascinating!
     
  8. yaxomoxay macrumors 68040

    yaxomoxay

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    #8
    My opinion is that conspiracy theorists have lost their imagination and to find their moment in the spotlight are now going for stuff that is truly impossible to believe to those who actually cracked a book open.
    You're 24, which means you were born in 1995. Mandela was released in 1990, and I remember that day. If in elementary school (1995+6= 2001) you learned "how he died in prison" before you were born you either had the most ignorant teacher in the history of humanities, or you simply misinterpreted what she said and now carry a false memory.
    --- Post Merged, May 14, 2019 ---
    There is a difference between a false memory of a personal account, and saying that a worldwide event never happened. Yes, memories are often incorrect in their particulars, but it's very rare that the important part of the memory is falsified (with some exceptions; schizophrenia, ptsd etc.).

    I'll take the bait: we are the champions by queen?
     
  9. vertical smile macrumors 68040

    vertical smile

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    #9
    I know of the Mandela Effect.

    But, I question if it is real, as most examples of the Mandela Effect could be easily and logically explained.

    One example I have of the Mandela Effect is unique, as I have not seen anyone else mention it. As a child, I vividly remember a scene in the movie The Goonies that is missing from versions of the movie I have watched as an adult. This scene featured a giant octopus that attacked the children after they dropped out of the “water slide” and into the body of water near One-Eyed Willie’s ship.

    Data mentions the “giant octopus” in the last scene of the movie where the children on are the beach telling the parents and police about their adventures.

    Sometime in the past few years, I re-watched the movie with my children and remembered the octopus scene. After doing some quick internet searching I discovered that this scene was actually a deleted scene and never made it into any of the actual versions of the movie.

    I have vivid memories of watching the scene as a child, long before the viewing of deleted scenes were a thing.

    Could this be the case of the Mandela Effect where I have memories of a scene of a movie that never actually made it into the movie?

    Maybe, or maybe there is a more logical explanation.

    The very simple explanation is that I saw an uncut version of the movie.

    A less simple, but logical explanation of this example, along with many other Mandela Effect examples is that the human brain tries to make sense of things that are not logical. The “I’M NOT A ROBOT” tests are a perfect example.

    There is a crap load of examples of this in everyday life. One way of explaining it is using the Gestalt Principles/Theory.

    A quick something-search found this on the internet:

    “Gestalt theory is a hypothesis that people tend to organize visual elements into groups or unified wholes when certain principles are applied. According to it, the whole is different from the sum of its part.”

    I think that is what is happening with most examples of the Mandela Effect.

    It is when we have some or part of the information of something, and our minds try to fill in the blanks of the missing information. Or, makes sense of the information given.

    For my real life example of the Mandela Effect, maybe my brain is trying to make sense of Data telling everyone at the end of the movie that there was a giant octopus, so it creates a false memory of a giant octopus that never actually happened.



    Maybe later, I will use some other better known Mandela Effect examples and apply the Gestalt Principles to it.
     
  10. Scepticalscribe Contributor

    Scepticalscribe

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    #10
    Very well said.

    And I completely agree with you.

    Such breathtaking ignorance - of events broadcast at the time worldwide, moving and powerful events - is deeply depressing.

    And no, it is not "fun and interesting".

    Rather, it is depressing, a reminder of the sort of uncritical mindset which swallows "fake news" without subjecting any of it to critical analysis.
     
  11. BenTrovato macrumors 68030

    BenTrovato

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    #11
    We are the champions by Queen.. seems like there are varying opinions of how the song ends (for them). Some people say it always ended the same way, some people say Queen sang it both ways. Some people swear they bought the original and it's different from the original now.

    It's not so much that a worldwide event never happened. It did happen, and you experienced it but it's also possible that it could also not have occurred for another person in that specific way for which you experienced it. I think for this discussion, it requires a leap of faith and accepting that there might be something we don't fully understand yet. Without that acceptance, you would just write it off.

    The thing with the Mandela effect, it's not something you can just look up today and say "here's why you thought it happened that way". That's not disproving the Mandela effect. What's happening is that you have a lot of people who remembered an event in a different way - and yes when we look it up now, we reason and come up with the explanation but doesn't explain the effect.
     
  12. yaxomoxay macrumors 68040

    yaxomoxay

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    #12
    The fact that someone remembers one thing in a different way, doesn't change the event. In the case of the Queen, I do believe that people perceived parts of the song in different ways. There are many factors involved, from one personal's earing ability, to the version heard the first time (radio edit? concert?), to other circumstances (maybe the first time you heard the song you had to turn off the radio before the song ended). None of this precludes that one day Queen entered a recording studio and recorded We are the Champions in a certain way.

    Despite my current interest in topics such as the Bhagavad Gita, the Upanishads, the dream world etc, we should be VERY careful in making personal experiences - or, if you will, the post-event interpretation of the experience - as something global.
    The Mandela Effect is a term just covering a type of conspiracy theory, at least based on the website. It's NOT just an examination of false memories. The proof is in the website itself, under FAQ: "Markers seem to be indications of a reality shift."
     
  13. vertical smile macrumors 68040

    vertical smile

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    #13
    If you listen to people talking on YouTube about examples of the Mandela Effect, there is a common thing you will hear them say about the examples, "doesn't make sense". I remember watching a few videos about it, and each person talking about the Mandela Effect kept saying that.

    I think that when things are not logical, or don't make any sense, our brains correct the information that is given to make sense of things that are not fully logical.

    Looney Toons/Tunes is a good example:
    980x.jpg

    Maybe people remember Looney Toons, not Tunes. Tunes doesn't make sense for many people, especially millennials and younger. I think that our brains fill in information that would make sense, Tunes doesn't make sense for some people, but toon for cartoons makes sense, so our brains process it as "toons" when we think about it.
     
  14. decafjava macrumors 68030

    decafjava

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    #14
    Ahh I just thought of a possible explanation of the Mandela effect, at least for some people who recall that period (not the OP as they are too young). Anyone recall who Stephen Biko was?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Biko

    He died in police custody after being severely beaten, not unusual for the period :( but his case became a cause celebre and a film with Denzel Washington called "Cry Freedom" was released as was a song by Peter Gabriel. Never saw the film but like the song (and most of Peter Gabriel's stuff).

    I wonder of somehow the news of his death got confounded in some people's memory in that case?
     
  15. Scepticalscribe Contributor

    Scepticalscribe

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    #15
    Possibly.

    For what it is worth, I remember the Steve Biko story - I was at school when it happened, but I always paid close heed to current affairs, even as a teenager.

    And I remember the movie Cry Freedom (which I saw) and the Peter Gabriel song (which I have on CD).

    Some years later, as it happened, Donald Woods gave a talk at my university.
     
  16. Gutwrench Contributor

    Gutwrench

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    #16
    I’ve never heard of the Mandela Effect, but how does the fact Mandela died in his home and not in prison fit into it? Are you saying you were taken in too?
     
  17. yaxomoxay macrumors 68040

    yaxomoxay

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    #17
    It doesn't, especially because no one can remember clearly something that happened in elementary school. It is possible, for example, that the teacher said "and Mandela was arrested and sentenced to die in prison", which a 6-10yo can easily misinterpret, possibly creating a very vivid image of an old man dying alone in a cell.
     
  18. AngerDanger macrumors 601

    AngerDanger

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    #18
    Can't say I'm a fan of the Mandela Effect. Human brains forget things in similar ways; it seems solipsistic to take it as a sign that we're living in an alternate reality rather than that we're fallible mammal brains.

    In my alternate universe theory, the people who forget the difference between "your," "you're," "there," "they're," and "their" are from a parallel dimension where a butterfly flapping its wings in a monastery garden altered a monk's transcription, changing the course of (what would become) the English language.
     
  19. chown33 macrumors 604

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    #19
    In my dimension, it was a moth, not a butterfly.

    And the moth was a pan-dimensional being.
     
  20. vertical smile macrumors 68040

    vertical smile

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    #20
    I find the topic to be interesting.

    Especially how the human mind recalls stored information and memories.
     
  21. Scepticalscribe, May 14, 2019
    Last edited: May 14, 2019

    Scepticalscribe Contributor

    Scepticalscribe

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    #21
    I think that this (how the mind stores information, or how the mind chooses to store information, or chooses what subjects ought to be stored, or are worth storing) may be culturally - and geographically, socially and ethnically, perhaps economically and politically, influenced.

    For those who did not recall it clearly, it was not something that mattered or was of importance.

    "How memories are stored" is one thing, but I would draw a distinction between not recalling an event - an actual historical event - that was covered widely internationally at the time, and not recalling - or recalling differently - the ending of a song, or a scene in a movie.

    One falls under actual political and historical facts, and - to my mind, it is inexcusable not to wish to inform yourself about what is happening in the world. There are enough individuals who would seek to question the actual legitimacy of political or historical facts.

    And I would further argue that there may be a difference in how different ethnicities recall the release (and non-death while incarcerated) of Nelson Mandela; many of those who are of African or African-American ancestry may well recall it clearly, because it matters to them.
     
  22. decafjava macrumors 68030

    decafjava

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  23. vertical smile macrumors 68040

    vertical smile

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    #23
    I think you are concentrating too much on the facts of the events of what happened to Nelson Mandela instead of the "effect" which the OP is referring to.

    There are hundreds of other examples of the effect, which I find really fascinating. While I do not believe that the Mandela Effect is the result of the overlapping of the Multiverse, it is interesting that people on a mass scale recall the same wrong information.
     
  24. Number-Six macrumors 6502

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    #24
    I have read, sometime somewhere - and i do not know if that's true - that a lot of news agencies have "pre-written" articles especially obituaries of older famous people.

    I'd say it's entirely possible that one of those articles may have been released by mistake, seen by many people, but then retracted later on and the retraction was missed.

    Certainly makes more sense than "this happened but only a select few remembers it" :confused:
     
  25. Scepticalscribe, May 14, 2019
    Last edited: May 15, 2019

    Scepticalscribe Contributor

    Scepticalscribe

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    #25
    Of course I am concentrating on "The Mandela Effect", which refers to how people remember Nelson Mandela. That is what the title of the thread suggests I should examine.

    There are hundreds of examples of this 'effect', but the OP chose (choice again) to post a thread title about the "Mandela Effect" - rather than a thread asking whether you remember movies or songs differently to how they may have sounded (or looked) on release.

    A song (and there were songs about Mandela in prison - Peter Gabriel, The Specials) is not quite the same as an event with world wide emotional, political, cultural power, which is what his release expressed, given what he had stood for, given what he grew into and was able to put behind him, given what he modelled as an ethically (not ethnically) informed political leader.

    Mandela did not die in prison, and I find it incomprehensible that an educated and informed person - or one who chose to inform themselves about political events - failed to realise this.
     

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