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Two guys that base their business in getting money from people’s data, fighting against each other. It looks like an april fools day joke.
Yea... the thing about that is there are facts that exist in this world. Care to elaborate on your claim that Apples business model is based data collection? I’d like your explanation as to how Apple has been lying to the SEC and FTC for so long, you know...insisting that Apple sells hardware for the vast, vast, VAST majority of its revenues.
 
Cook, Ive and the rest of the gang are profit -hungry spin merchants.
They are not above flouting the law and common rules of decency and believe themselves entitled to do so.
They use people in lesser circumstances and pretend they don't.
Their great talent is manipulating the gullible and insecure.
 
A case of old versus new business models.

Both are driven by profits.
Apple's is probably just more transparent.
 
is so dire and has become so large that probably some well-crafted regulation is necessary
No, can you please just leave the stuff I use alone? And if you don't like it, don't use it? The only "well-crafted regulation" you need is a mega fine on FB for introducing literal spyware into Messenger on Android. I thought that was already illegal.

But anyway, I believe Tim Cook for once. The incentives are there for Apple to collect user data like Google does, but they don't, and I can't explain why.
 
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A case of old versus new business models.

Both are driven by profits.
Apple's is probably just more transparent.
Old versus new? They’re entirely different.

One is a manufactured good, one is intangible code. Both are *different*, but it’s not like algorithms are somehow the only business model going forward (as implied by “new”).
 
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I would say Tim Cook / Apple are indirectly getting money from people's data.

My iTunes account is tied to my profile. They know what I buy and where I live. They also can typecast my persona based on my iTunes store spending habits. In return, they will know what type of a) buyer I am and b) what type of interests I have. It's already happening in the App Store on my phone as they know what games/apps to target me with. They will also know what types of services and products to market next iteration assuming I fall under their targeted umbrella.

The difference in this case is just 1st party vs 3rd party. Apple can freely mine your data for 1st party activities.

Although I think Facebook is at a worse position here, let's not beta stubborn in thinking Apple isn't getting money from people's data.

That's quite a difference. Companies marketing their own customers for future company sales based on their interests has been going on for a loooong time. Far before the "computer" age.
 
Zuckerberg made his fortune off of exploitation from the beginning up to today.

Very Evil what it all ended up becoming - I'm sure it didn't start out being THAT evil, but he sure did not steer away from exploiting user data - he willingly worked along with the amoral sharks and the intelligence agencies because it made a lot of MONEY.
 
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One of the reasons they charge more because they don't sell your data to make up the difference. Take Amazon, they often sell hardware at cost or at a lost because they know they can make it up selling you other stuff by using the data they collect.
So are you saying before Amazon, Google, Facebook et al came along selling adverts/data Apple was as cheap as any other computer company? When there was no market for data Apple didn't charge more "to make up the difference"?
 
Zuckerberg made his fortune off of exploitation from the beginning up to today.

Very Evil what it all ended up becoming - I'm sure it didn't start out being THAT evil, but he sure did not steer away from exploiting user data - he willingly worked along with the amoral sharks and the intelligence agencies because it made a lot of MONEY.
It’s teally telling that Zuck has had to publicly apologize for data/privacy issues every year going back to his days at college. Every time he says they’ll try harder, yet somehow enforcement of their legally binding privacy settlements in 2011 never happens. Why? BECAUSE FACEBOOK HAS ALWAYS BEEN A SURVEILLANCE PLATFORM USED BY THE US’S INTELLIGENCE SERVICES. You’re not going to take action against a program you use every day.
 
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Oh snap! Shots fired y’all.
Get him Timmy!!!! Get him!

But in all seriousness. People should know better. If you put it on the Internet, it’s there.

If you haven’t figured out they’re all doing the same thing one way or another than I’m sorry to be the one to break it to ya.
Trust No One. The Truth is out there.
 
the-more-of-your-data-i-gather-the-more-i-21522864.png
 
Oh snap! Shots fired y’all.
Get him Timmy!!!! Get him!

But in all seriousness. People should know better. If you put it on the Internet, it’s there.

If you haven’t figured out they’re all doing the same thing one way or another than I’m sorry to be the one to break it to ya.
Trust No One. The Truth is out there.
Social media is extremely new. Yes people who are technically literate or have an inkling of how surveillance works knows this, but we live in a world where the vast majority of people have no idea how a computer, let alone the internet, work. To put the onus on the average citizen to not fall for a data collection platform fronting as a place to see your grandkids pictures is entirely unfair.
 
Companies that charge you typically se the data internally and don't sell it because they see value in it themselves by selling you goods and services.

Facebook has a business model where YOU ARE THE PRODUCT thEY ARE SELLING!!!
Apple has not monetized your data because they don't want other people selling you what they can sell you.
Same with Google and Amazon. They don't want others selling you the goods and services they can. It runs completely counter to Amazon, Google and Apple's business models to sell your data to someone else.
 
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Each company exists for one reason - to get as much money from their customers are possible.

Haven't read the entire thread yet, so forgive me if this point has already been made. But imo, what's wrong with capitalism today is that this premise is accepted by so many. Companies exist to make money, yes. But the expectation should be to make a reasonable amount of money, not "as much money as possible." The "as much as possible" mentality leads to companies prioritizing maximum profits above anything else. They can minimize employee pay and benefits, destroy the environment, and run competitors out of business, and society accepts that behavior because "that's what companies do." We need to deny the premise that companies exist to maximize profit, and insist that companies have a responsibility to do good, or at the least, not cause harm, and their profit-seeking behavior must always be constrained by the common good.
 
To be clear, neither Zuckerberg or Cook are humanitarians when it comes to business.

At least Mr. Cook seems to have some regard for customer privacy. When it comes to the Zuck, piracy comes to mind.
 
"The reality here is that if you want to build a service that helps connect everyone in the world, then there are a lot of people who can't afford to pay. And therefore, as with a lot of media, having an advertising-supported model is the only rational model that can support building this service to reach people."
The reality here is that advertisers don't care about reaching people who can't afford to pay.

It's not the only rational model, it's a stealth Robin Hood model where the rich surrender personal details of their friends rather than pay a service fee. In truth, most people probably wouldn't choose the subscription because they undervalue their personal data and especially undervalue the data of their "friends".

I've nothing against subsidizing services to the poor, but be upfront about what you're doing.
 
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If you're so stupid as to click on a "which celebrity do you look like the most" link that asks for all of your Facebook data, you deserve to be taken advantage of. In fact, all of the money should be immediately sucked out of all your bank accounts. People are pathetic and stupid. Darwinism at work.
 
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Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg has countered the argument that companies without an ad-supported business model are better off.

tim-cook-mark-zuckerberg.jpg

"You know, I find that argument, that if you're not paying that somehow we can't care about you, to be extremely glib," said Zuckerberg, in an interview with Vox's Ezra Klein. "And not at all aligned with the truth."

"The reality here is that if you want to build a service that helps connect everyone in the world, then there are a lot of people who can't afford to pay. And therefore, as with a lot of media, having an advertising-supported model is the only rational model that can support building this service to reach people."

Last week, Apple CEO Tim Cook told Recode's Kara Swisher and MSNBC's Chris Hayes that his company "could make a ton of money if we monetized our customer," but added "we've elected not to do that."

Apple's business model is primarily focused on selling products like iPhones and iPads to customers, rather than targeting users with advertisements based on their personal information. Facebook, on the other hand, is a free service that relies on ads for a significant portion of its revenue.

Cook, who said Apple views privacy as a "human right," believes that Facebook shouldn't have the ability to collect as much information as it does.

"The ability of anyone to know what you've been browsing about for years, who your contacts are, who their contacts are, things you like and dislike and every intimate detail of your life -- from my own point of view it shouldn't exist," said Cook, speaking at the annual China Development Forum last week.

Zuckerberg argued that while Facebook is "squarely in the camp of the companies that work hard to charge you less and provide a free service that everyone can use," it doesn't mean the company doesn't care about people.

"I don't think at all that that means that we don't care about people. To the contrary, I think it's important that we don't all get Stockholm Syndrome and let the companies that work hard to charge you more convince you that they actually care more about you. Because that sounds ridiculous to me."

Zuckerberg's comments follow last month's revelation that data firm Cambridge Analytica used personal information harvested from more than 50 million Facebook profiles without permission to build a system that could target U.S. voters with personalized political ads based on their psychological profile.

Cook said the situation "is so dire and has become so large that probably some well-crafted regulation is necessary." He also made the mic-drop comment that he "wouldn't be in this situation" if he were Zuckerberg.

The entire question and answer is embedded below.

Click here to read rest of article...

Article Link: Mark Zuckerberg Rebuts Tim Cook: Companies That Charge You More Don't Necessarily Care About You More
Those that care about you give you options to choose from. The ones that only care about themselves want you to buy a smartphone with Facebook built into the operating system where you can not uninstall it. Thankfully for Apple we do not have to worry about stuff like this from Facebook. Facebook pays companies who are struggling financially like HTC to sell their smartphones with Facebook built into the operating system of which can not be uninstalled from smartphone.
 
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I think both these people are reprehensible, and Tim Cook runs on a PR campaign of privacy that may or may not be BS.

Especially in light of iCloud servers in China using govt servers, and using google servers for iCloud data. Coupled with his obvious political bias indicated by having Michelle Obama at WWDC, hosting Hillary fundraisers to suck money out of naive rich people in the Bay Area, and captured in photographs meeting with John Pedosta, looking all too complacent. All while sending out internal memos to employees to make Apple a safe space from an administration half the country actually approves of, every time Trump waves his bill legislation signing pen.


I love to see reprehensible people get in pissing contests. It’s a win-win regardless

Obviously Zuckerberg is a more despicable public figure, dude thought he was gonna run for 2020 he should be more worried about trying to keep his turd FB afloat right now and not turning into another MySpace, which it very well could.

But Tim is a disgusting virtue signaling globalist, and has his own demons in the closet. Constantly going to Chinese Economic Forum’s and kissing butt of Chinese gov elites.

Let the hunger games of Silicon Valley elites begin!
 
What's funny is that user data is, for the most part, useless. People in the industry want to make it sound like user data is inherently valuable. It isn't. Most of it isn't really actionable.

The cambridge analytica thing is another example of the hype. What are really the goals of a political campaign? There are only two:
  • get out the vote for your candidate
  • suppress the vote for the other candidate
Now really, you can post stuff to rile people up and get them to the polls, or you can discourage them from getting out. That's about it. You don't need a lot of data to do that. If you listen to the hucksters they'll promise the moon and starts. But really, it's BS.

If you believe the Democrats the Russians did that with a few contractors and a couple of hundred thousand dollars.

But really, there are other, better channels than Facebook for grass-roots like stuff. Most of the activists want to be manipulated, which makes things easier.
Some of what you say is true, but the Trump campaign had zero grassroots, get out the vote, etc. None of that existed. All of it was based on rallies, Twitter, Facebook and free TV news/press coverage. Now you can say that none of the Facebook-Cambridge Analytica and/or Russia activity was enough to flip the 70K votes needed to win Wisconsin, Pennsylvania and Michigan thus winning the EC, but with a 70K difference in three states it is hard to prove or disprove what made the difference
 
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Some of what you say is true, but the Trump campaign had zero grassroots, get out the vote, etc. None of that existed. All of it was based on rallies, Twitter, Facebook and free TV news/press coverage. Now you can say that none of the Facebook-Cambridge Analytica and/or Russia activity was enough to flip the 70K votes needed to win Wisconsin, Pennsylvania and Michigan thus winning the EC, but with a 70K difference in three states it is hard to prove or disprove what made the difference

If Hillary showed up even one time during her campaign to the state, maybe Wisconsin would feel differently. But she didnt so they dont. She thought they were dumb and obedient — she underestimated them.

The political climate flipped a switch for the first time in seriously, forever, in blue dominant WI.

Due to the ineptitude and arrogance of the liar liar pantsuit dumpster fire. Not some cooked up Russia conspiracies that still remain ineffective to the base, despite media trying so hard 24/7.

Stormy Daniels is pathetic too. Pussygrabbing shade was ineffective at not getting him elected despite all of Colber’ts crocodile tears and moaning.

What makes any sane person think a guy having sex with aN adult porn star, consensually no less, would make any difference whatsoever? Democratic run media is sick and obsessed with losing.

What would make a difference, but that media spends no time covering or caring about, is John Podesta, Hillary’s close campaign advisor, being a pedo. That, and Weiner, who is Abedin’s husband, and Abedin who is Hillary’s aide, is a pedo too. Hillary’s close friends are literally pedos. But she is such a virtuous character, despite that, right? Her husband literally has raped women, not just from some fringe accusations and unnamed people, but actually raped. Ever heard of Juanita Broderick? Bill is a serial rapist. How’s that for being a feminist and standing up for women’s rights and human rights in the case of the pedos?

Democrats dont care at all!
 
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A bunch of strawman arguments if you ask me. Those three bullets - who has made those arguments as you've stated them. I'm guessing little to no one.

They are made countless times on MR. In the case of Facebook and Apple people are saying since they both are out to make money they are essentially the same. They’re not.
 
They are made countless times on MR. In the case of Facebook and Apple people are saying since they both are out to make money they are essentially the same. They’re not.

Well I'm not arguing that. Neither are most. I think many are arguing that when it comes to data and privacy - how it's handled is essentially the same. Only Apple isn't as successful. Not from a lack of trying though.
 
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