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If you think Meta and Epic and for that matter, the EU, are in the right here, consider this: Apple is providing the infrastructure that makes their businesses function. Do you want solid infrastructure that's well-maintained or do you want ****** infrastructure that falls apart, has potholes, and is covered with billboards?
I'd want an infrastructure where I am allowed to make either a left or right turn, rather than having to swing along the only road. And saying Apple makes (near) flawless software is laughable. Android (or one of its privacy-oriented alternatives) looks really good today, but also gives one the option to finetune it to ones liking.
 
Do no want and would not use if it was available. Additionally, my friends and family are a mix of Apple and Android, and some (like myself) only social media on the web via a computer. I doubt Apple would make it cross-platform.

Apple is already too far into services, which they aren't great at. Get back to focusing on the various OS(s) and on Hardware.
Fair point but some Apple services are cross-platform so I don’t see why they couldn’t do the same here.

Unfortunately there are very few companies that have the resources to build a platform that could genuinely compete with Facebook. Apple is one of those companies.

Facebook will continue to get away with their antics unless they have some genuine competition.
 
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Yeah, Zuck … cry me a river!!

He & Meta are the scourge of the internet but now his empire of stealing users data and monetizing it to support his fiefdom … Do the world a favor; shut down Meta and move to one of your “Private Islands,” never to be heard from again!

What A Thief!
 
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Fair point but some Apple services are cross-platform so I don’t see why they couldn’t do the same here.

Unfortunately there are very companies that have the resources to build a platform that could genuinely compete with Facebook. Apple is one of those companies.

Facebook will continue to get away with their antics unless they have some genuine competition.

Facebook is barely used to post day-to-day things anymore, and Facebook have said as much. Zuck, more-or-less, said the timeline is dead during the antitrust depositions; few post and even less view and read. They go straight into Groups and Marketplace now. Craigslist is all but dead here unless you're looking for a used car or boat, so that's the only option.

I would say half my friends on FB haven't posted a single thing in a couple years, but they are still active on Marketplace and I chat with them in Messenger. I last posted in 2023.
 
I don't hate this idea! Especially given how Instagram lost the plot by trying to chase TikTok.

I'm curious what Apple could do that was different than Flickr, however. Integrate more of a social aspect? Flickr is more like semi-public photo storage. The social aspects are very Inside Baseball™ for photo nerds. I wonder if Apple could create something like that that was more social at its core.

But then again, they tried that with Music and Ping and... well (burningpileofgarbage.gif)
Privacy and Sharing just don’t go together. Apple would never be able to do anything “social” as you can’t have a successful social network for free without the kind of compromises that lead to low engagement.

None of the current networks are good with privacy. That’s not because they’re bad at privacy, it’s because privacy is bad for the creation of a network.
 
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I'm not even sure there is a market for this sort of thing right now.

People seem to have really soured on the old social network concepts.

I know that for me I have zero interest in it.
I've realized over the years that I don't get much out of random updates from afar.

Relationships need in person time to truly maintain, at least for me.
Fair point. I have never used Facebook because I’m concerned about their privacy policies. There doesn’t seem to any real alternatives.
 
I'd want an infrastructure where I am allowed to make either a left or right turn, rather than having to swing along on the only road. And saying Apple makes (near) flawless software is laughable. Android (or one of its privacy-oriented alternatives) looks really good today, but also gives one the option to finetune it to ones liking.
And THAT is the correct answer. If Apple doesn’t provide an experience one likes, they should obtain a device that DOES provide the experience they like. If they can’t find a device that provides the experience they like, they should design their own and sell it. However, I’m under the impression that the largest group of people that can’t find a device that provides the experience they like is because the experience they like is not profitable. And, unless someone can convince a government to fund the devices, it’s got to be profitable.
 
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I’m torn because I don’t like Apple’s strict rules but anything that hurts Facebook sounds like a good thing. It’s a pox on society, causing only harm
 
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I made this post to just say this..... Look at what META charges people, the chunk they take of profits.....

Meta's sales fees for VR game sales, primarily through the Meta Quest Store and Horizon Worlds, can be up to 47.5%. This includes a 30% "hardware platform fee" for the Meta Quest Store and an additional 17.5% fee for Horizon Worlds
 
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Last time I looked you could type "facebook.com" into the address bar of any web browser and doomscroll to your, er, doom (or until the browser crashed because Meta think that endless scrolling of self-playing videos is a good idea). Any problems or limitations on that are down to Meta. No App Store restrictions in sight...

Meanwhile, if people weren't happy with the Facebook experience on iPhone they'd have dumped iPhone, if only someone offered something better. I know they're too small to have their own space program yet, but Meta are big enough and ugly enough to have developed their own platform (esp. as Google/Android/Linux have done a lot of the hard work for them).
 
Social apps—Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, X, Threads, and others like them—remain the most popular apps in the App Store for Android and iOS, year after year. They represent the primary purpose why many people even own and use a smartphone. That may not be true for you, it certainly isn't for me, but don't think for a second the anti-Facebook white knighting on here or elsewhere represents anything like a majority opinion. People may think Zuckerberg is a sniveling rat-weasel of a human being, but they use his products in spades.

Perhaps that's sad. Perhaps that's the reality of narcissism as a way of life. We all should be responsible for our own choices, however, and not abdicate that responsibility to a multinational corporation to "protect" us from anything.

Count me as one who NEVER HAS / NEVER WILL have a Meta product on any of my devices / in any of my OS’s!

I was Always too old to ever see any value in FaceCrook. I worked with a Software Engineer when FaceCrook released the iOS App. He found all the hooks that allowed Zuck to Hoover up data without the users knowledge … which the thief then monetized to build his fiefdom. Meta is the scourge of the internet.
 
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Boo hoo little princess! Take your cancerous company & do one. Create your own phone & compete with Apple if u have big enough cahones! If not stdu!
 
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I'm of firm belief that iOS (and iPadOS) should allow app installation aside from just the App Store. I understand the risks — but everyone needs to understand the risks.
Dude, everyone doesn't even understand how to properly charge their phones without having battery health going down 10% within the first year, do you really think they can handle security risks? And I agree with you that everyone needs to, but they don't and they won't.
 
Cry me a river Zuck, I'm sure there are tens of dozens of companies that continue to be hurt by Facebook.
 
They tried and failed. :) If you read stories about that time, people were writing that it was going to be the next big thing! What software companies ALL around the world have found, is that hardware is hard. Not only just getting all the pieces and parts required and putting them together in a people pleasing fashion, but developing the OS level software to work in a way that’s performant AND provides proper hooks for developers to do the last yard of effort and put their little cherry on top.

Plus, with software you just go cheap until you squeeze out all competitors, like Facebook did, then raise your prices until profit. Hardware doesn’t work that way. The reason why Meta and App developers formed a “coalition” to complain about Apple is ALLL of them know that, if they put their entire might to the problem, focused on it and tried to build hardware OS platform that could compete against Apple/Google, they couldn’t. They’re incapable. Not because it’s impossible, and I’m certain someone someday WILL challenge them, it’s because they can’t see past the fence posts of the house they’ve built on SOMEONE ELSE’s hill!
I know, right? It's as if it is easy to create an App Store and an ecosystem. Apple worked hard for it, and (I would argue) the rules made it the success it is. I also believe there is a need for some regulation when companies and their offerings become too big, but I hate freeloaders like Meta and Epic...
 
but they don't and they won't.
Not my problem. Not Apple's problem. Stupid is its own reward. I'm tired of my rights being restricted because someone can't be arsed to take responsibility (and suffer the consequences) for their own actions. I expect government to set a baseline of responsibility and restriction, within boundaries defined by the constitution. When corporations play nanny state, the desire to shape those restrictions toward their own profit motives is too great for even the most pious among them to avoid—as Apple has clearly demonstrated time and time again.

What's lost in MacRumor's analysis is that Apple won almost the entire case against it. The only thing it lost was the anti-steering provisions, and even then they were given a broad latitude to still charge a commission, among other restrictions. But there was apparently zero cost/benefit analysis on their part to consider what further might be lost if they fixated on that one piece in an endless quest for profit. How's the phrase go? F--- around and find out.
 
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Having a belief is completely fine, as long as we let people with other beliefs create different platforms. Many of us like the iPhone, among other things, because of the effects of the App Store exclusive distribution model. I’m not going to ask Google to forbid sideloading on Android — I just ask that governments/other companies don’t forbid Apple and their users from creating and buying products we like.
The existence of a duopoly is not enough to shield companies from Apple's anti competitive practices. Yes, companies can protest (for example like Epic did with Fortnite) by leaving iOS but they lose half their revenue. There needs to be much more real competition before we can rely on solely on market forces without government intervention. On iOS Apple acts as a defacto government accountable to no one but shareholders, controlling speech and taking a large proportion of every dollar that flows through their ecosystem. This limits consumer choice, stymies innovation, and raises prices. It also makes the experience of using the platform much worse. Have you ever wondered for example why Amazon's Kindle app does not actually allow you to buy eBooks? It's because Apple demands a 30% cut of the revenue and forbids Amazon from even explaining this to consumers in the app or directing them to the web. This is not something that would be possible with real competition.
 
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With Apple's privacy policy, Meta definitely stands to lose. User privacy should be protected. Will be good if Meta respects that.
 
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Not my problem. Not Apple's problem. Stupid is its own reward. I'm tired of my rights being restricted because someone can't be arsed to take responsibility (and suffer the consequences) for their own actions. I expect government to set a baseline of responsibility and restriction, within boundaries defined by the constitution. When corporations play nanny state, the desire to shape those restrictions toward their own profit motives is too great for even the most pious among them to avoid—as Apple has clearly demonstrated time and time again.

What's lost in MacRumor's analysis is that Apple won almost the entire case against it. The only thing it lost was the anti-steering provisions, and even then they were given a broad latitude to still charge a commission, among other restrictions. But there was apparently zero cost/benefit analysis on their part to consider what further might be lost if they fixated on that one piece in an endless quest for profit. How's the phrase go? F--- around and find out.
Yea... but Apple doesn't want this, so saying it's not Apple's problem is rather strange. I mean you're right — it's not Apple's problem because they aren't doing it, except where they are forced to.
 
And THAT is the correct answer. If Apple doesn’t provide an experience one likes, they should obtain a device that DOES provide the experience they like. If they can’t find a device that provides the experience they like, they should design their own and sell it. However, I’m under the impression that the largest group of people that can’t find a device that provides the experience they like is because the experience they like is not profitable. And, unless someone can convince a government to fund the devices, it’s got to be profitable.
I think you misinterpreted my post. I was solely speaking about Apple/iOS. I think generally analogies make no point, but I went along with the infrastructure one about iOS. In a way it works, as for a lot of people you can't just change infrastructure without having to make vast investments (moving to another country). But again, there are so many obstacles here, like the complexity and the inability to simply compare to other situations that analogies – although widely used here on MR – make no sense.

And just chosing Android over iOS is not choice. There is not enough competition to provide a proper choice. So I am not saying if you don't like Apple's repulsive behaviour, you must not complain and just chose Android. I am saying that Apple should be held accountable for using its power (together with Google), to limit users ability to use their device in a way that provides choice, both for users and third party device makers, developers etc.

It is easy to ignore the difficulties of a market if one blindly follows a company.
 
I’m sure Facebook abuse of customer’s private data, and censorship didn’t have anything to do with the decline of Facebook
That's the thing. It's in their incentive to push the envelope, legal or not, to increase revenue per user or revenue per thousand views.

It's hard to see any pushback against such privacy invasive measures. Europe has kind of done it with cookies, but not sure how fully effective it is. And Apple is trying to do it, but again, they can only protect users from within their ecosystem.

Apple is okay doing it because they have less at stake because they actually make money selling devices and services that aren't subsidized by advertising revenues. Facebook isn't because they know it's a negative - really straight forward.

In this specific example, I'm quite okay with Apple enforcing more privacy requirements.
 
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