Masimo CEO on Looming Apple Watch Ban: 'These Guys Have Been Caught With Their Hands in the Cookie Jar'

[MacRumors]

Masimo CEO Joe Kiani does not believe that Apple will be able to solve its patent infringement issues with software, reports Bloomberg. In an interview with Bloomberg TV, Kiani said that a software solution won't work because Masimo patents cover hardware, not software. "I don't think that could work -- it shouldn't -- because our patents are not about the software," said Kiani.

Apple is reportedly working to change the algorithms used for the blood oxygen sensor in the Apple Watch to skirt Masimo patents, with engineers aiming to adjust how oxygen saturation is determined and how the data is provided to customers. An Apple spokesperson said yesterday that Apple is planning to submit a workaround to the US Customs agency to determine whether a software change is enough to avoid an import ban.

Masimo would be open to settling its dispute with Apple to prevent the Apple Watch import ban that Apple is facing, but Apple so far has not expressed interest. "They haven't called," Kiani told Bloomberg. "It takes two to tango." Kiani did not mention the amount of money that Masimo would accept to settle, but he said the company would be willing to "work with them to improve their product."

According to Kiani, he has not spoken with Apple since 2013, which is when Apple considered purchasing Masimo or getting Masimo's help to develop the blood oxygen sensors in the Apple Watch. Masimo has accused Apple of employee poaching and patent infringement, and the U.S. International Trade Commission in October agreed that Apple has violated Masimo patents with the Apple Watch.

As a result, Apple is facing an import ban on the Apple Watch Series 9 and Apple Watch Ultra 2, with sales set to stop starting on December 21. "These guys have been caught with their hands in the cookie jar," Kiani said. Masimo wants an apology and an "honest dialogue" as part of any settlement discussion.

Apple's announcement that Apple Watch sales will stop in the U.S. on Christmas Eve is a "stunt" that is meant to pressure the Biden administration, according to Kiani. Apple did not have control over the timing of the import ban.

Apple for its part said yesterday that it "strongly disagrees" with the ITC's order and import ban decision, and that it is "pursuing a range of legal and technical options" to keep the Apple Watch available to customers.

It is possible that Apple will avoid an import ban and a pause in sales if the Biden administration vetoes the ban by December 25. It is not clear if the White House will step in, as presidential vetoes of ITC bans are rare.

While Apple will not be able to continue selling the Apple Watch in the U.S. without a veto, third-party retailers like Best Buy and Target can continue to offer it as long as supplies are available. The import ban will prevent Apple from importing components and assembled devices from countries like China.

The ITC's decision will not impact sales of the Apple Watch outside of the United States.

Article Link: Masimo CEO on Looming Apple Watch Ban: 'These Guys Have Been Caught With Their Hands in the Cookie Jar'

 

[Motawa]

“Bad artists copy. Good artists steal.”

 

[thealkimist]

No patent trolling here at all. Pay up Apple.

 

[onenorth]

Kiani keeps trying to negotiate with Apple through the media.

How serious is he if he hasn't spoken to Apple in 10 years?

 

[Apple_Robert]

I think we are in for a long ride with this drama.

 

[timborama]

“Bad artists copy. Good artists steal.”

If you’re going to throw out colloquialisms get them right…

‘Good artists copy, great artists steal’

A new exhibition at MoMA features meticulous copies of famous artworks. It raises the question: is originality really that important? Jason Farago investigates.

www.bbc.com

 

[zach-coleman]

I think we are in for a long ride with this drama.

Beeper and Masimo have discovered a powerful strategy for news cycle relevance.

 

[Motawa]

If you’re going to throw out colloquialisms get them right…

‘Good artists copy, great artists steal’

A new exhibition at MoMA features meticulous copies of famous artworks. It raises the question: is originality really that important? Jason Farago investigates.

www.bbc.com

 

[erikkfi]

The way this has been described -- Apple pays Masimo a visit, talks about a partnership, then suddenly several key Masimo employees are working at Apple reinventing Masimo's wheel -- feels absolutely like something our Apple would do. Apple is so addicted to high margins that it's practically allergic to paying up for things it wants. Remember how they pay ARM thirty cents per chip?

 

[DarthDon]

I think we are in for a long ride with this drama.

I don't think so. It's pretty easy to get control of a company with money. In the end, Apple will make a move and the story will be over.

 

[Larabee119]

Next news: Masimo is going out of business.

 

[timborama]

Sorry, Motawa, but that is NOT what Picasso said. Do your homework. LOL

 

[magicschoolbus]

Apple is what.. a 3 Trillion dollar company? You would assume they would have something up their sleeve to avoid this - it would be a pretty big failure on a lot of different parts of Apple (lawyers, lobbyists, business teams, etc) to just let this ban go into effect.

 

[genovelle]

Sorry, Motawa, but that is NOT what Picasso said. Do your homework. LOL

It’s what Steve Jobs said

 

[maxoakland]

Good to see the law applying to giant companies like Apple

 

[MLVC]

Problem is easily solved by buying Masimo.

 

[coolfactor]

The way this has been described -- Apple pays Masimo a visit, talks about a partnership, then suddenly several key Masimo employees are working at Apple reinventing Masimo's wheel -- feels absolutely like something our Apple would do. Apple is so addicted to high margins that it's practically allergic to paying up for things it wants. Remember how they pay ARM thirty cents per chip?

I'm not sure if the ARM comparison is applicable. ARM was started by Apple after an investment into Acorn...

In the late 1980s, that combination caught the attention of Apple, and it began working with ARM. on November 27, 1990, Apple, Acorn and VLSI Technologies jointly formed a new firm called Advanced RISC Machines Limited.

Apple invested $3 million to own 43% of the company. That investment was specifically to fund the design and development of the ARM processor for what would become the Apple Newton MessagePad.

Reference:

How Apple and ARM have always been vital for each other's very survival

Apple investing in ARM shares is a good buy for the company, but it's bought before. When it did so in the 1980s, ARM proved to be Apple's life saver.

appleinsider.com

Normally, I side with Apple on these issues, but this definitely seems like a case of poaching and patent abuse. It's my opinion, but Apple should pay up, based on what I'm reading. Did they knowingly use another company's tech and portray it as their own? If so, not cool.

 

[femike]

Good. Give Apple a taste of their own medicine.

 

[onenorth]

Normally, I side with Apple on these issues, but this definitely seems like a case of poaching and patent abuse. It's my opinion, but Apple should pay up, based on what I'm reading. Did they knowingly use another company's tech and portray it as their own? If so, not cool.

If so, not cool but if Apple had a good faith belief that Masimo's patents were no good, then I dunno.

 

[jvchappy]

Masimo getting a ton of free press for this... I hope apple continues to skirt them

 

[Robert.Walter]

The way this has been described -- Apple pays Masimo a visit, talks about a partnership, then suddenly several key Masimo employees are working at Apple reinventing Masimo's wheel -- feels absolutely like something our Apple would do. Apple is so addicted to high margins that it's practically allergic to paying up for things it wants. Remember how they pay ARM thirty cents per chip?

There absolutely nothing wrong in the scenario you described.

If the employees violated a non disclosure agreement that’s on them.

If Apple violated a patent that’s on Apple.

Employee poaching is not an illegal thing. And is prevented by paying employees competitive market prices for their individual value to stay.

 

[ectospheno]

Masimo CEO Joe Kiani does not believe that Apple will be able to solve its patent infringement issues with software, reports Bloomberg. In an interview with Bloomberg TV, Kiani said that a software solution won't work because Masimo patents cover hardware, not software. "I don't think that could work -- it shouldn't -- because our patents are not about the software," said Kiani.

Apple is reportedly working to change the algorithms used for the blood oxygen sensor in the Apple Watch to skirt Masimo patents, with engineers aiming to adjust how oxygen saturation is determined and how the data is provided to customers. An Apple spokesperson said yesterday that Apple is planning to submit a workaround to the US Customs agency to determine whether a software change is enough to avoid an import ban.

Masimo would be open to settling its dispute with Apple to prevent the Apple Watch import ban that Apple is facing, but Apple so far has not expressed interest. "They haven't called," Kiani told Bloomberg. "It takes two to tango." Kiani did not mention the amount of money that Masimo would accept to settle, but he said the company would be willing to "work with them to improve their product."

According to Kiani, he has not spoken with Apple since 2013, which is when Apple considered purchasing Masimo or getting Masimo's help to develop the blood oxygen sensors in the Apple Watch. Masimo has accused Apple of employee poaching and patent infringement, and the U.S. International Trade Commission in October agreed that Apple has violated Masimo patents with the Apple Watch.

As a result, Apple is facing an import ban on the Apple Watch Series 9 and Apple Watch Ultra 2, with sales set to stop starting on December 21. "These guys have been caught with their hands in the cookie jar," Kiani said. Masimo wants an apology and an "honest dialogue" as part of any settlement discussion.

Apple's announcement that Apple Watch sales will stop in the U.S. on Christmas Eve is a "stunt" that is meant to pressure the Biden administration, according to Kiani. Apple did not have control over the timing of the import ban.

Apple for its part said yesterday that it "strongly disagrees" with the ITC's order and import ban decision, and that it is "pursuing a range of legal and technical options" to keep the Apple Watch available to customers.

It is possible that Apple will avoid an import ban and a pause in sales if the Biden administration vetoes the ban by December 25. It is not clear if the White House will step in, as presidential vetoes of ITC bans are rare.

While Apple will not be able to continue selling the Apple Watch in the U.S. without a veto, third-party retailers like Best Buy and Target can continue to offer it as long as supplies are available. The import ban will prevent Apple from importing components and assembled devices from countries like China.

The ITC's decision will not impact sales of the Apple Watch outside of the United States.

Article Link: Masimo CEO on Looming Apple Watch Ban: 'These Guys Have Been Caught With Their Hands in the Cookie Jar

Good to see the law applying to giant companies like Apple

Patent infringement is certainly bad. Poaching is legal except in specific instances such as solely to obtain trade secrets. If the poached employees have worked on anything else at all while at Apple then the poaching would not be relevant. Interesting to see where it goes.

 

[dannyyankou]

So they're willing to settle. Just get it over with, Apple. You were already ruled against.

 

[com.B]

Beeper and Masimo have discovered a powerful strategy for news cycle relevance.

If only the creator of Beeper had figured out a relevance strategy back when he was creating the Pebble, instead.

 

[Sorinut]

Next news: Masimo is going out of business.

The amount of Masimo products that my company (hospital) buys could keep them afloat.

They aren't going anywhere.