Mavericks DP4 = Snow Leopard

[HenryDJP]

I have to say that I'm a little disappointed that this discussion turned to Tiger and confused as to why it did. Yes it was a good release but you can't run it anymore so what's the point? Snow Leopard on the other hand can still be loaded onto most new Macs, still supports a good deal of software, still gets security updates, and by most reports still accounts for over 30% of the Mac's install base. I think this discussion should be about the merits of running 10.6.8 vs the merits of running 10.9 for those of us who have pointedly stayed with 10.6.8 until now.

The reason the discussion (obviously my posts included) turned to Tiger is because some people make Snow Leopard out to be the holy grail of OS X and truthfully it wasn't. In fact it wasn't good until 10.6.3. Many of us had lots of problems with Snow Leopard and until 10.6.3 and people were referencing it to Windows Vista, which was a stretch of course. Problem is too many of the Snow Leopard apologists are either conveniently ignoring it or forgot about it. Snow Leopard IS a very good OS, I loved it but it wasn't good out of the box upon release. Tiger was good and solid on the day of release and Tiger was the true milestone of OS X.
You have to realize that discussions do get a bit off topic but as long as we're talking about Mac OS X I don't see the problem of referring to other versions especially since the OP suggests that Mavericks is the best version of OS X since Snow Leopard. I do agree that Mavericks is the best version of OS X but not since Snow Leopard, since Tiger, IMO.

On a side note, from my understanding Snow Leopard will not install on the latest Mac hardware (without hacks and I don't support that) because it won't have the drivers to support the newer technologies.

 

[chrfr]

On a side note, from my understanding Snow Leopard will not install on the latest Mac hardware (without hacks and I don't support that) because it won't have the drivers to support the newer technologies.

Snow Leopard won't install or run, period, on the latest hardware. There are no "hacks" around that aside from running it in a virtual machine.

 

[Eithanius]

The reason the discussion (obviously my posts included) turned to Tiger is because people make Snow Leopard out to be the holy grail of OS X and truthfully it wasn't. In fact it wasn't good until 10.6.3. People had lots of problems with Snow Leopard and until 10.6.3 people were referencing it to Windows Vista. Problem is too many of the Snow Leopard apologists are either conveniently ignoring it or forgot about it. Snow Leopard IS a very good OS, I loved it but it wasn't good out of the box upon release. Tiger was good and solid on the day of release and Tiger was the true milestone of OS X.
You have to realize that discussions do get a bit off topic but as long as we're talking about Mac OS X I don't see the problem of referring to other versions especially since the OP suggests that Mavericks is the best version of OS X since Snow Leopard. I do agree that Mavericks is the best version of OS X not since Snow Leopard, since Tiger, IMO.

On a side note, from my understanding Snow Leopard will not install on the latest Mac hardware (without hacks and I don't support that) because it won't have the drivers to support the newer technologies.

Like someone said here, Tiger is too far off and too little user-base to be compared with Mavericks.

Putting it in another perspective, Tiger was the best in terms of stability and performance. But when Leopard was introduced, it was feature-riched but riddled with instability in the beginning and poor performance (especially multi-threaded CPU) through-out. To be fair, there was a slightly improvement on 10.5.7. By the time I hit 10.6, it was of little issue but a vast improvement over Leopard. Lion was a drastic change from the conventional OS X, lots of people don't like it, I myself skipped it entirely. Since you wouldn't want to equate Lion with Vista, I'll equate it with Leopard then - bloated and poor in performance. Mountain Lion is supposed to improved on Lion no...? We're at 10.8.4, and still there's not much improvements. In fact when I had 10.8.2, it was far worse off than a GM copy. I still see graphics corruption in 10.8.4 down to the Dock.

It may be premature to judge on Mavericks, but to emphasise on graphics corruption issue alone, it is more of a frequent occurrence than in Mountain Lion. But I myself and indeed some of the so-called SL apologists here see the trend Apple is heading. Apple no longer cares about stability or performance or anything like that. All they want is to brag about smooth scrolling and everybody goes hoo-hah about it and at the same time, get more market share on it with dumbed-down features from iOS. Try something else like Mission Control graphics fluidity. Or "killall Dock" on Terminal and see what happens on both SL and Mv. These kinda graphical "discontinuity" (pardon my poor vocab) will probably explain why there were serious VRAM leaks somewhere starting off with Lion onwards, and it is still not plugged on Mv. By the way, DP4 had just killed CUDA, and sadly Apple will most probably ignore it.

 

[HenryDJP]

Like someone said here, Tiger is too far off and too little user-base to be compared with Mavericks.

Putting it in another perspective, Tiger was the best in terms of stability and performance. But when Leopard was introduced, it was feature-riched but riddled with instability in the beginning and poor performance (especially multi-threaded CPU) through-out. To be fair, there was a slightly improvement on 10.5.7. By the time I hit 10.6, it was of little issue but a vast improvement over Leopard. Lion was a drastic change from the conventional OS X, lots of people don't like it, I myself skipped it entirely. Since you wouldn't want to equate Lion with Vista, I'll equate it with Leopard then - bloated and poor in performance. Mountain Lion is supposed to improved on Lion no...? We're at 10.8.4, and still there's not much improvements. In fact when I had 10.8.2, it was far worse off than a GM copy. I still see graphics corruption in 10.8.4 down to the Dock.

It may be premature to judge on Mavericks, but to emphasise on graphics corruption issue alone, it is more of a frequent occurrence than in Mountain Lion. But I myself and indeed some of the so-called SL apologists here see the trend Apple is heading. Apple no longer cares about stability or performance or anything like that. All they want is to brag about smooth scrolling and everybody goes hoo-hah about it and at the same time, get more market share on it with dumbed-down features from iOS. Try something else like Mission Control graphics fluidity. Or "killall Dock" on Terminal and see what happens on both SL and Mv. These kinda graphical "discontinuity" (pardon my poor vocab) will probably explain why there were serious VRAM leaks somewhere starting off with Lion onwards, and it is still not plugged on Mv. By the way, DP4 had just killed CUDA, and sadly Apple will most probably ignore it.

Nope, Tiger is not too far off to compare to Mavericks. What this shows is that Apple had the capability to produce a rock solid OS on first release. Can't say that at all about Snow Leopard and it's especially sad because it was an "under the hood" upgrade so it's should've been just as solid and stable as Tiger on first release and it wasn't. It doesn't matter if it was 10.1 being compared to 10.8, the point is how much effort Apple is putting forth in their OS to make it great upon first release and Tiger was spot on and Mavericks looks to be following suit.
I consider myself a power user and I've never once experienced any graphics corruption in the Dock. Care to elaborate on that so I can understand better what you're referring to? I have 4 Macs in my household and have witnessed none of what you're saying about Mountain Lion. ML has been a vast improvement over Lion and it's gotten very good reviews so you're either having some issues with your own setup or you're over exaggerating.

 

[Lolito]

Mavericks still has lots of things to polish, and SL is so well considered cause it was a ery polished OS. that been said, 10.9 still have lots of bugs and apps not updated, but so far i like how it handles the ram, and the sleep image size is way smaller; great for SSD. Much faster than 10.8 and 10.7, that is great.

power button new behaviour sucks big time. hope it can be disabled.

finder is better, but still sucks reaaaallly a lot. hope total finder is updated fast.

iCloud sucks big time. itunes is good... Not as polished as SL but perhaps best OSX ever, i think...

 

[Eithanius]

Nope, Tiger is not too far off to compare to Mavericks. What this shows is that Apple had the capability to produce a rock solid OS on first release. Can't say that at all about Snow Leopard and it's especially sad because it was an "under the hood" upgrade so it's should've been just as solid and stable as Tiger on first release and it wasn't. It doesn't matter if it was 10.1 being compared to 10.8, the point is how much effort Apple is putting forth in their OS to make it great upon first release and Tiger was spot on and Mavericks looks to be following suit.
I consider myself a power user and I've never once experienced any graphics corruption in the Dock. Care to elaborate on that so I can understand better what you're referring to? I have 4 Macs in my household and have witnessed none of what you're saying about Mountain Lion. ML has been a vast improvement over Lion and it's gotten very good reviews so you're either having some issues with your own setup or you're over exaggerating.

I wished I own these, but they weren't mine. Just say I have access to these enough to grab stills of messed up Docks in transition from a full-screen presentation exiting to Desktop. Pictures are capture using my ancient camera, pardon the blurry images. Anti-clockwise from top right:

Mid-2013 MBA 13" - Custom build 10.8.4
Mid-2013 MBA 11" - Custom build 10.8.4
Mid-2012 rMBP 15" - 10.8.3
Late-2012 rMBP 13" - 10.8.3
Mid-2012 cMBP 15" - 10.8.3


I think Lolito has got the right word - polished.

 

[HenryDJP]

Mavericks still has lots of things to polish, and SL is so well considered cause it was a ery polished OS. that been said, 10.9 still have lots of bugs and apps not updated, but so far i like how it handles the ram, and the sleep image size is way smaller; great for SSD. Much faster than 10.8 and 10.7, that is great.

power button new behaviour sucks big time. hope it can be disabled.

finder is better, but still sucks reaaaallly a lot. hope total finder is updated fast.

iCloud sucks big time. itunes is good... Not as polished as SL but perhaps best OSX ever, i think...

How does the Mavericks Finder suck reaaaallly a lot? Please give a better reason than it's not as good as Explorer on Windows because there's plenty wrong with Windows that could certainly take cues from OS X.

Also what's wrong with iCloud? You guys kill me with making blanket statements without explaining it.

On a side note, SL is "polished" because it's been out for years and it certainly was a mess upon release. Mavericks isn't even out yet. Comparing it to the current SL is ridiculous.

 

[Eithanius]

How does the Mavericks Finder suck reaaaallly a lot? Please give a better reason than it's not as good as Explorer on Windows because there's plenty wrong with Windows that could certainly take cues from OS X.

Also what's wrong with iCloud? You guys kill me with making blanket statements without explaining it.

On a side note, SL is "polished" because it's been out for years and it certainly was a mess upon release. Mavericks isn't even out yet. Comparing it to the current SL is ridiculous.

That shows something about Apple's current sped-up roadmap isn't it...? Snow Leopard had 2 years of maintenance updates before being relegated to only security updates, while we see Lion and Mountain Lion with only a year each. Currently we have ML which is only a year old still laced with bugs and practically "unpolished", and Mavericks is on the way. I would tend to believe Mountain Lion would be more polished had they follow the old 2-year cycle and push Mavericks for introduction next year.

 

[HenryDJP]

I wished I own these, but they weren't mine. Just say I have access to these enough to grab stills of messed up Docks in transition from a full-screen presentation exiting to Desktop. Pictures are capture using my ancient camera, pardon the blurry images. Anti-clockwise from top right:

Mid-2013 MBA 13" - Custom build 10.8.4
Mid-2013 MBA 11" - Custom build 10.8.4
Mid-2012 rMBP 15" - 10.8.3
Late-2012 rMBP 13" - 10.8.3
Mid-2012 cMBP 15" - 10.8.3

I've never seen this. I tried the Killall Dock Terminal command as you mentioned and never saw this on any my Macs. There are no issues with my Dock coming from a full screen presentation to the desktop. I'm on 10.8.4. I played videogames in OS X and upon returning to the desktop I saw no issues with the Dock. In fact I've tried a lot of things that might affect the Dock and nothing has happened. That's not a problem with OS X. If it was everybody (including me) would have that problem. That's either the person's setup is messed up, their computer is messed up, they have haxies installed or various software with corrupted files.
Why didn't you just use your own pictures since you said you're having this problem?

 

[Eithanius]

I've never seen this. I tried the Killall Dock Terminal command as you mentioned and never saw this on any my Macs. There are no issues with my Dock coming from a full screen presentation to the desktop. I'm on 10.8.4. I played videogames in OS X and upon returning to the desktop I saw no issues with the Dock. In fact I've tried a lot of things that might affect the Dock and nothing has happened. That's not a problem with OS X. If it was everybody (including me) would have that problem. That's either the person's setup is messed up, their computer is messed up, they have haxies installed or various software with corrupted files.
Why didn't you just use your own pictures since you said you're having this problem?

The killall Dock Terminal command will not get you these as shown on my pictures. If you want to find out what this command does, then I suggest comparing the results with Snow Leopard and Mountain Lion. See what happens to your desktop wallpaper when you trigger the command.

FYI, the pictures are mine, just the Macs are not, and since I've downgraded to Snow Leopard, there's no point showing mine. My point is, since you assumed it could be my own setup that is giving problems, I've given you 5 Macs in my workplace that exhibited this problem.

 

[HenryDJP]

That shows something about Apple's current sped-up roadmap isn't it...? Snow Leopard had 2 years of maintenance updates before being relegated to only security updates, while we see Lion and Mountain Lion with only a year each. Currently we have ML which is only a year old still laced with bugs and practically "unpolished", and Mavericks is on the way. I would tend to believe Mountain Lion would be more polished had they follow the old 2-year cycle and push Mavericks for introduction next year.

Our version of comparing the OS's are totally different. I don't go by how many years support in terms of "polish" I go by how solid the product is at release. If it's very solid at release such as Tiger was then not much in the way of maintenance updates is really necessary. For the record I am having zero issues with ML. Just as that other poster was saying there are major problems with the Dock and posted pictures someone else's setup not his own , I am not experiencing any of that on either of the 4 Macs I own running ML.

----------

.

The killall Dock Terminal command will not get you these as shown on my pictures. If you want to find out what this command does, then I suggest comparing the results with Snow Leopard and Mountain Lion. See what happens to your desktop wallpaper when you trigger the command.

FYI, the pictures are mine, just the Macs are not, and since I've downgraded to Snow Leopard, there's no point showing mine. My point is, since you assumed it could be my own setup that is giving problems, I've given you 5 Macs in my workplace that exhibited this problem.

If you're referring to the desktop wallpaper flashing to grey for a micro-second during the Killall Dock action how do you know that's a glitch and not designed that way by Apple? Just because it doesn't affect the wallpaper in SL doesn't mean that it's graphics glitch.

Also I have 4 Macs without Dock issues like those pics and you snapped photos of 5 Macs with those issues. Think about it, if one of us with 4 Macs isn't having that issue and the other with 5 Macs does then the probability that there's an issue with the setup or a corrupt file is very high.

 

[Eithanius]

If you're referring to the desktop wallpaper flashing to grey for a micro-second during the Killall Dock action how do you know that's a glitch and not designed that way by Apple? Just because it doesn't affect the wallpaper in SL doesn't mean that it's graphics glitch.

Also I have 4 Macs without Dock issues like those pics and you snapped photos of 5 Macs with those issues. Think about it, if one of us with 4 Macs isn't having that issue and the other with 5 Macs does then the probability that there's an issue with the setup or a corrupt file is very high.

Precisely...!

Because the full-screen presentation that I mentioned earlier is a product presentation made by Apple themselves. So isn't this Apple's problem..? How could there be such an oversight on such minor details...? If they can flop on such details at such a scale that it involves their retail floor showcasing their products to the public, why wouldn't they actually flop on having the current OS "polished". Was it because Bertrand Serlet and his predecessors left and all that came with them - went with them as well...?

People complained about the 20-sec shutdown time since 10.8.2. And now we even have people claimed Apple did that on purpose - but why were there no improvements...? We're on the 3rd major revision post-SL. SL shuts down in 3 seconds flat on my SSDed MBP. Are ML/Mv so bloated in a way that it require so many processes to be shutdown sequentially...? SL = Lightweight

I gave you the killall Dock comparison in SL and ML, and you said it's could be an intentional feature. Why isn't this fixed...? I don't think the word "continuity" is alien to Apple. They did a good job on Tiger and SL. Graphics were fluid and continuous, but the same cannot be said on L or ML. If they had, I don't think Apple will need to boast smooth scrolling on Mavericks in the first place. And yet they did, and still there are so many holes to plug when it comes to graphical fluidity and continuity. So SL = Fluidity and Continuity

It is the attention to details that made Apple standout in the first place, a trait that sadly has recently been blinded by SJ's obsession to conquer the market share and placed quality software to insignificance.

Now, are you going to bank on the notion that this full-screen presentation is made by some entity outsourced and approved by Apple..?

PS: Don't get me started on why do I need to shutdown my Mac - I don't.

 

[HenryDJP]

Precisely...!

Because the full-screen presentation that I mentioned earlier is a product presentation made by Apple themselves. So isn't this Apple's problem..? How could there be such an oversight on such minor details...? If they can flop on such details at such a scale that it involves their retail floor showcasing their products to the public, why wouldn't they actually flop on having the current OS "polished". Was it because Bertrand Serlet and his predecessors left and all that came with them - went with them as well...?

People complained about the 20-sec shutdown time since 10.8.2. And now we even have people claimed Apple did that on purpose - but why were there no improvements...? We're on the 3rd major revision post-SL. SL shuts down in 3 seconds flat on my SSDed MBP. Are ML/Mv so bloated in a way that it require so many processes to be shutdown sequentially...? SL = Lightweight

I gave you the killall Dock comparison in SL and ML, and you said it's could be an intentional feature. Why isn't this fixed...? I don't think the word "continuity" is alien to Apple. They did a good job on Tiger and SL. Graphics were fluid and continuous, but the same cannot be said on L or ML. If they had, I don't think Apple will need to boast smooth scrolling on Mavericks in the first place. And yet they did, and still there are so many holes to plug when it comes to graphical fluidity and continuity. So SL = Fluidity and Continuity

It is the attention to details that made Apple standout in the first place, a trait that sadly has recently been blinded by SJ's obsession to conquer the market share and placed quality software to insignificance.

Now, are you going to bank on the notion that this full-screen presentation is made by some entity outsourced and approved by Apple..?

PS: Don't get me started on why do I need to shutdown my Mac - I don't.

No disrespect meant, honestly, but you're babbling a lot here and some of it isn't making sense. First of all, what Full Screen presentation made by Apple are you referring to? And just so we can shorten this discussion a bit please respond with a complete answer as to what you are talking about with Apple's Full Screen Presentation from start to finish on what I should expect to see. I want to see if I can duplicate this because honestly, right now I have no idea what you're talking about.

Secondly, you didn't even answer my question when I asked if you were referring to the flashing of the gray wallpaper when using the Killall Dock command in Terminal? Just say if that was what you were referring to and my response was that it could've been an intentional design (not feature ) of the OS, then why would you ask me why isn't it being fixed? Hello? If something was possibly an intentional design, why would it need fixing? See, you're running around with your sentences and it's not making sense.

In terms of Snow Leopard shutting down in 3 seconds, once again you a few others conveniently ignore how SL was in 10.6.0-10.6.2. You're giving it way too much credit. People had so many issues installing SL upon release, then Apple started changing the transparency in the menu bar drop downs because it too transparent and those were just the aesthetic issues. See, at least when I mention problems with the OS I can pinpoint exactly what and where the problem is. You keep making blanket statements without saying exactly what is going on.
And lastly could you please leave your favorite superstar out of this Mr. Bertrand Serlet. He has no bearing on our lives or this to discussion to be honest. Kinda done with seeing his name come up.
I don't seem to have any issues with ML, especially with slow shut downs. You greatly misunderstood my post when I said those graphics issues in those pictures were perhaps from corrupted files. I wasn't referring to corrupted files OF ML, I was referring to corrupted softwares that are installed in ML.
Just think about it, this forum is made up of a lot of people who are vocal but they don't represent even 1/10th of a percent of Apple's installed base, especially now that it "appears" that MR has so many paid Apple haters registered here now. When people have complaints here it doesn't represent as a whole. You'll know when it's widespread because nobody here should be saying their system is perfect when everyone else's isn't.

I'm not backing Apple up here because I personally have had my own issues with some of their design and coding choices in OS X but all too often people give a pass to the 3rd party software they install as if it just couldn't be faulty or causing instability with the OS and it's also very possible that the software they install wasn't coded to work well with the latest OS.

All I am saying is check every avenue before placing the blame on the OS especially when it's not everybody complaining about the same problem.

P.S. I just noticed your sig, it's really hard to take anything you're saying seriously about ML when you say, "M/Lion Sucks! ".

 

[Eithanius]

No disrespect meant, honestly, but you're babbling a lot here and some of it isn't making sense. First of all, what Full Screen presentation made by Apple are you referring to? And just so we can shorten this discussion a bit please respond with a complete answer as to what you are talking about with Apple's Full Screen Presentation from start to finish on what I should expect to see. I want to see if I can duplicate this because honestly, right now I have no idea what you're talking about.

When was the last time you visit your local Apple store...? If you haven't been for quite a while, now is the time. Apple's Premium Reseller preferable of course. Go and find one of their Mac demo units and molest around. Oh and if the Apple Store/Reseller's traffic's high, make sure you hog the unit and leave it idle until the timed presentation (Apple nicked it Mountain Lion Demo Content) chimes in. Stare at it, poke fun at the screen, whatever you can think of as long as the unit remains idle. When it comes, strike a key or touch the pad to exit back into Desktop, that's where you get the graphics corruption. Is my instructions clear to you now...? Or my England still sucks...?

Secondly, you didn't even answer my question when I asked if you were referring to the flashing of the gray wallpaper when using the Killall Dock command in Terminal? Just say if that was what you were referring to and my response was that it could've been an intentional design (not feature ) of the OS, then why would you ask me why isn't it being fixed? Hello? If something was possibly an intentional design, why would it need fixing? See, you're running around with your sentences and it's not making sense.

Seems like Apple's found a new meaning for discontinuity for its latest venture into intentional design. What an eyesore every time I see that being setup. Or do I have to answer a big YES to your little question. Man, there really isn't a Sherlock Holmes inside you, no...?

In terms of Snow Leopard shutting down in 3 seconds, once again you a few others conveniently ignore how SL was in 10.6.0-10.6.2. You're giving it way too much credit. People had so many issues installing SL upon release, then Apple started changing the transparency in the menu bar drop downs because it too transparent and those were just the aesthetic issues. See, at least when I mention problems with the OS I can pinpoint exactly what and where the problem is. You keep making blanket statements without saying exactly what is going on.

Poor Snowy's not going to get any comparable benchmark from all the successors ahead of her. All post-SL major revisions just couldn't get to the 10.x.8 mark. If you want me to pinpoint one exact problem SL vs ML, I'll give you 10.6.3 auto-login screen into Desktop, where you get that nice little transition effect from blue screen to Desktop, while 10.8.4 gets the little zoom in effect from the Apple logo to the Desktop. Guess what, SL transition is more smooth and fluid than ML's choppy zoom-in effect. Is my England still clear…? Or are you going to play the notion that my MacBook Pro's integrated GPU ain't powerful enough to handle OS X animations post-SL…? Or anything that is post-SL is graphically bloated...?

I don't seem to have any issues with ML, especially with slow shut downs. You greatly misunderstood my post when I said those graphics issues in those pictures were perhaps from corrupted files. I wasn't referring to corrupted files OF ML, I was referring to corrupted softwares that are installed in ML.

I'm not backing Apple up here because I personally have had my own issues with some of their design and coding choices in OS X but all too often people give a pass to the 3rd party software they install as if it just couldn't be faulty or causing instability with the OS and it's also very possible that the software they install wasn't coded to work well with the latest OS.

I never misunderstood that statement. You were correct in pointing out possible file corruption from the software side, not ML. But as I pinpointed earlier, this little presentation (once again Mountain Lion Demo Content) is PROVIDED BY Apple for Premium Resellers. Call it 3rd party software if you like, it is still done by Apple, no…? (I would love to be corrected but) If it's done by Apple how can a Mountain Lion Demo Content meant to illustrate the benefits of Mountain Lion, could cause instability within Mountain Lion, or be incompatible with Mountain Lion. How can Apple deploy a merchandising software that wasn't coded to work well with its parent product..? If that were to happen, doesn't that mean Mountain Lion IN ITSELF is not coded well and causing all these graphically glitches. I've not even delved in on those other non-graphically related bugs, but those MacRumorians (I'm sure that's plenty) who dislike ML for whatever reasons, they know why.

So that's why I asked and now re-quoted, "do you want to bank in the notion that this full-screen presentation (again Mountain Lion Demo Content) is made by some entity outsourced and approved by Apple and it is beyond Apple's quality control…?"

Just think about it, this forum is made up of a lot of people who are vocal but they don't represent even 1/10th of a percent of Apple's installed base, especially now that it "appears" that MR has so many paid Apple haters registered here now. When people have complaints here it doesn't represent as a whole. You'll know when it's widespread because nobody here should be saying their system is perfect when everyone else's isn't.

Interesting…? How can I sign up for one…?

P.S. I just noticed your sig, it's really hard to take anything you're saying seriously about ML when you say, "M/Lion Sucks! ".

P.S. Maybe I should just add another sentence on my sig that reads "M/Lion Sucks and HenryDJP is Apple's new mascot." No offense of course, just a little siggy pun so that you don't take that seriously...

 

[HenryDJP]

When was the last time you visit your local Apple store...? If you haven't been for quite a while, now is the time. Apple's Premium Reseller preferable of course. Go and find one of their Mac demo units and molest around. Oh and if the Apple Store/Reseller's traffic's high, make sure you hog the unit and leave it idle until the timed presentation (Apple nicked it Mountain Lion Demo Content) chimes in. Stare at it, poke fun at the screen, whatever you can think of as long as the unit remains idle. When it comes, strike a key or touch the pad to exit back into Desktop, that's where you get the graphics corruption. Is my instructions clear to you now...? Or my England still sucks...?

Since you're going down the road breaking down my posts piece by piece.......(Oy Vey)..I'll join your party....I live near 5 Apple stores all within about 20 minutes from me. Last time I was there was a month ago. But tell me, why couldn't I just do this same test on my 27" i7 iMac? Hmm? If it's a problem with ML (as you say) then I should able to do this on my machine right?
Oh and yes, your ENGLAND still sucks because the word is "ENGLISH". England is a country, not a language. And to you or anyone reading this please don't go out of your way and report me for correcting someone's grammar, I was asked a question and I answered it.

Or do I have to answer a big YES to your little question. Man, there really isn't a Sherlock Holmes inside you, no...?

Unlike you I try to make myself very clear in my posts, you should too since you've made it clear that english is not your first language.

Poor Snowy's not going to get any comparable benchmark from all the successors ahead of her. All post-SL major revisions just couldn't get to the 10.x.8 mark. If you want me to pinpoint one exact problem SL vs ML, I'll give you 10.6.3 auto-login screen into Desktop, where you get that nice little transition effect from blue screen to Desktop, while 10.8.4 gets the little zoom in effect from the Apple logo to the Desktop. Guess what, SL transition is more smooth and fluid than ML's choppy zoom-in effect. Is my England still clear…? Or are you going to play the notion that my MacBook Pro's integrated GPU ain't powerful enough to handle OS X animations post-SL…? Or anything that is post-SL is graphically bloated...?

You sound a bit angry. But I will say my iMac has no issues with the zoom animation when logging in to the desktop. Why don't YOU tell me why is that? Or is it something wrong with MY machine because the animations AREN'T choppy when logging in?

(I would love to be corrected but) If it's done by Apple how can a Mountain Lion Demo Content meant to illustrate the benefits of Mountain Lion, could cause instability within Mountain Lion, or be incompatible with Mountain Lion.

I already corrected you. I did multiple presentations on my iMac last night. My work involves making Keynote presentations and PPT's with very complex animated screens. Each time I came out of the presentations I had zero glitches. I also played a couple of very graphic intensive games last night that can have a big affect on the system upon quitting them. Once again zero issues. Funny that I have to go to the Apple store, hang out on their computers for a long while, play their presentation just so you can prove your point though.

P.S. Maybe I should just add another sentence on my sig that reads "M/Lion Sucks and HenryDJP is Apple's new mascot." No offense of course, just a little siggy pun so that you don't take that seriously...

Regardless of you saying no offense, please don't lower the maturity of this discussion with childish name calling. I never insulted you, even in jest...

 

[Eithanius]

Oh and yes, your ENGLAND still sucks because the word is "ENGLISH". England is a country, not a language. And to you or anyone reading this please don't go out of your way and report me for correcting someone's grammar, I was asked a question and I answered it.

You didn't get the pun, you'll be glad I didn't spell it "Engrand" with a local dialect... but never mind...

No wonder the Western world is on a decline...

 

[Krazy Bill]

If you want me to pinpoint one exact problem SL vs ML, I'll give you 10.6.3 auto-login screen into Desktop, where you get that nice little transition effect from blue screen to Desktop,

Ha Ha, this comment made me go strolling down memory lane...

I keep a copy of SL on a 5400rpm external right alongside Mavrix. Forgot how much I miss the smooth boot graphics and generally fast loading (and shutdowns) of SL

To load the same configurations on Log in (MS Office and lots of other crap) from a cold boot:

SL=2 min 10 sec
10.9=5 min 45 sec

Yeah, not Apples to Oranges I know but the bloat in Mavrix is apparent. As processors get faster and SSD's become more mainstream I guess there's really no need to optimize code anymore.

That said, I've gone back to SL twice before. The simplicity and elegance is amazing. I need a distraction before I attempt this a third time.

 

[Bokito]

This would've come close to Snow Leopard if they didn't mess up the Activity Viewer. Aside from not working (they'll fix it) the new interface is a complete mess.

 

[DarwinOSX]

I know it's like beta software or something....
The similarity between Snow Leopard and Mavericks is both had a lot of under the hood work done to optimize the OS and more efficiently use hardware resources. This is going to be a great release.

As a Snow Leopard user, no it isn't. Snow Leopard was fast and polished. Mavericks is fast but that is it. There is still a ridiculous amount of dust swept under the carpet.

Display extra still does nothing.

Still no mail activity indicator.

Still can't view both annotations and page list at once in Preview like you could on Snow Leopard -- can only view annotations OR page list.

In OS X you have always been able to use context menus with one click instead of 2 clicks like in Windows. That is, you hold the right-click button to open the menu, and then release the button to select an option. One click. I love doing that. Yet the new-style context menus in Mavericks, such as the tags button in the Finder toolbar, can't do this. It opens on mouse release instead on mouse down and forces you to use a minimum of 2 clicks.

Or, for example, with Expose in Snow Leopard and before, if you had one hot corner set up for Expose and one hot corner set up for Show Desktop, you could move the mouse from corner to corner and instantly switch between Expose and Show Desktop. With Mission Control, including Mavericks, you can't switch from Mission Control to Show Desktop and vice versa like that. If you're in Mission Control hitting the Show Desktop hot corner only dismisses Mission Control, so you have to hit the corner twice to switch to Show Desktop.

It's little bits of polish like that that have been missing all over the operating system ever since Lion, and it all adds up to a very clunky experience if you've been accustomed to better with Snow Leopard. Apple will have to try even harder if they want my upgrade custom.

 

[throAU]

This would've come close to Snow Leopard if they didn't mess up the Activity Viewer. Aside from not working (they'll fix it) the new interface is a complete mess.

What's wrong with it? The info is provided in a more relevant form wtih more relevant metrics.

 

[Bokito]

In some ways there is indeed more information in AV. Networking information is only session-based unfortunately and while there is much more info I have the idea I'm missing information. The UI is just not as clean as the previous. It's a bit Windows-like. You have a whole lot of information, but the information you're actually looking for is in between the mess.

 

[HenryDJP]

This would've come close to Snow Leopard if they didn't mess up the Activity Viewer. Aside from not working (they'll fix it) the new interface is a complete mess.

Well in terms of something being a "complete mess" that's gonna be subjective. Mavericks is already better than SL, hands down.