Mavericks still living up to it's Vista-like reputation

[Manic Harmonic]

I always felt like Snow Leopard was equivalent to XP, Lion was more like Vista, and Mountain Lion was like Windows 7. I'm hesitant to compare Mavericks to Windows 8 but I guess that comparison sort of fits.

I've been running Mavericks on my MBP8,1 and my Asus Vivobook since it was released with very few problems. Sure, there were bugs and some things that had to be worked around and adapted to, but nothing was a deal-breaker for me. I don't use those computers for serious work very often, aside from a few Ableton performances I had to do recently (I didn't experience any issues), so it was sort of a test to see how stable the OS was before I installed it on my hackintosh desktop, which I do use for serious work, often.

I've decided it's stable enough to install on my desktop. I did a fresh fusion drive setup and install and migration assistant is now restoring all my data.

Every OS has bugs when it first starts out. I'm pretty happy with 10.9.3 right now, and I'm sure it will be even better by the time the next version of OS X comes out.

 

[einmusiker]

it is a pretty awful OS. Worst problem has been some kind of bug that caused me to reinstall OS and lose all files. Annoying ongoing problems have to do with .mail

 

[cocky jeremy]

It's been pretty close to perfect for me.

 

[cynics]

Mavericks is my first run at OSX. I've been satisfied. After reading threads about how bad Mavericks is it has me wondering how good Mountain Lion must have been?

 

[Gochugogi]

Other than a Firewire glitch--FW drives won't spin down during sleep--Mavericks has been 100% stable, fast and feature rich on my 2013 Mini, 2009 MacPro and 2014 iMac. Lion, on the other hand, crushed daily while running Adobe Suite and Aperture.

 

[KoolAid-Drink]

I always felt like Snow Leopard was equivalent to XP, Lion was more like Vista, and Mountain Lion was like Windows 7. I'm hesitant to compare Mavericks to Windows 8 but I guess that comparison sort of fits.

I agree. I hope 10.10 to Mavericks will be what ML was to Lion.

 

[crjackson2134]

I agree. I hope 10.10 to Mavericks will be what ML was to Lion.

I hope so to for your sake especially. Mavericks has been and continues to be near flawless for me personally, but I know it's been a problem for you. Here's to 10.10 being the best version yet!

 

[827538]

I agree, unable to fault Mavericks so please by all means post your issues just don't say 'living up to it's vista like reputation' as that's simply nonsense. The vast majority don't experience issues or these forums would be drowning in threads. I'm not denying a minority have problems but like I said it's a minority. For me it's been one of the most stable OS's I've ever used.

 

[Felasco]

but all these endless, whiny posts! EVERY new os has it's share of issues, so...discuss them. ask for help. focus on the issue itself.

The issue itself is that every new OS has it's share of issues. To focus the issue itself we have to address the bigger picture, which will inevitably get one labeled a whiner.

The reason this pattern you don't like continues endlessly is that....

1) Apple has built a user base of a great many non-technical customers via it's "point and click simple" ad campaigns.

2) Apple then releases beta software proclaimed to be finished and ready for the general public.

3) Apple then refuses to teach that user base how to safely test a new OS in a separate partition or drive.

 

[Sky Blue]

I've installed near every version of OS X since 10.0. Pretty sure I've run every 10.x.0 release at launch if not on it.

Personally, Mavericks has been the most stable and reliable of any OS X.

 

[fisherking]

The issue itself is that every new OS has it's share of issues. To focus the issue itself we have to address the bigger picture, which will inevitably get one labeled a whiner.

The reason this pattern you don't like continues endlessly is that....

1) Apple has built a user base of a great many non-technical customers via it's "point and click simple" ad campaigns.

2) Apple then releases beta software proclaimed to be finished and ready for the general public.

3) Apple then refuses to teach that user base how to safely test a new OS in a separate partition or drive.

you're kidding right? we should TEST each new OS on 'a separate partition or drive'...instead of, say, installing the new OS and then focusing on our REAL work? that we should all find the time to do this?

the whole idea (i believe) is to make an OS that anyone can use...but that POWER users can do even more with. and, while certainly not perfect, OS X does that.

are you saying that the mac should be for the hardcore techies only?

 

[Felasco]

we should TEST each new OS on 'a separate partition or drive'...

You and everybody else should do whatever they want to do, it's your Mac.

instead of, say, installing the new OS and then focusing on our REAL work?

The problem, especially for non-technical general public type users, is that installing a new OS on top of an old OS destroys the old OS. That's fine if the new OS works better for the user than the old OS, but that's not always the case, as about a zillion Mavericks calamity threads illustrate.

So if one wants to focus on one's real work, it might be a good idea not to trash one's current OS before one knows whether the new OS will work.

It's not that complicated to test a new OS in a separate partition or drive, and it doesn't take that much time, unless one wishes to sit there and watch the progress bar.

that we should all find the time to do this?

If you were thinking for yourself, instead of just slamming down on the reply button to react in outrage, you'd already realize it doesn't take that much time. It does take some time, that's the unavoidable price tag for ensuring one doesn't have a calamity.

the whole idea (i believe) is to make an OS that anyone can use...

Yes, that's the idea. It's a good idea. It doesn't work yet. Most people won't know in advance if a new OS will be an improvement for them.

are you saying that the mac should be for the hardcore techies only?

No, I'm not saying that. I'm saying the reality is that new OS's (from any company) can sometimes be problematic, and that this problem can be solved by the OS maker teaching it's user base how to install and test a new OS safely.

All of these Mavericks calamity threads are caused by Apple trying to maintain the fantasy you spoke of above, that a new version of OSX will always be something that anyone can use, so just click the install button, destroy your existing setup, and everything will be wonderful.

Further, a lot of people are upgrading without even knowing why they are doing it, they just get sucked in to Apple's marketing machine and assume new equals better, which isn't always the case. Education would help here too.

You and I can provide such education in settings like this, but it would go a lot faster and better if Apple took the lead instead.

 

[Gochugogi]

10.93 is getting surprisingly close to perfection: stable, fast and glitch-free, at least on my 2014 iMac, 2013 mini and 2009 Mac Pro. And I mostly run "legacy" apps like Adobe Suite 5.5, Office 2006, Bias Peak Pro and Quicken 2007. If Apple would fix the spin down/sleep issue with FW drives if will be 100%. The worse OS I've used was 10.7x: daily crashes and flaky behavior and that autosave drove me nuts and killed Pages and Preview for me.

I'd characterize 10.93 as one of the most stable, thoughtful and feature rich renditions of OS X.

 

[willgreene99]

Hey Manic, that's an assessment I can agree with. Snow Leopard was rock solid, had great features and ran both new code and old code apps. But alas, Apple and everyone else was moving to the cloud so the OS had to follow suit. The following iterations of the Mac OS had some growing pains as it moved to a cloud-centric architecture.

I would have remained on SL but the cloud features were too much of a benefit for my needs and I followed suit with Apple.

Now as we get new features, we also get some unwanted baggage that requires an OS fix afterwards. I don't see an end to this cycle as Apple determines how our use of its products should be.

I always felt like Snow Leopard was equivalent to XP, Lion was more like Vista, and Mountain Lion was like Windows 7. I'm hesitant to compare Mavericks to Windows 8 but I guess that comparison sort of fits.

I've been running Mavericks on my MBP8,1 and my Asus Vivobook since it was released with very few problems. Sure, there were bugs and some things that had to be worked around and adapted to, but nothing was a deal-breaker for me. I don't use those computers for serious work very often, aside from a few Ableton performances I had to do recently (I didn't experience any issues), so it was sort of a test to see how stable the OS was before I installed it on my hackintosh desktop, which I do use for serious work, often.

I've decided it's stable enough to install on my desktop. I did a fresh fusion drive setup and install and migration assistant is now restoring all my data.

Every OS has bugs when it first starts out. I'm pretty happy with 10.9.3 right now, and I'm sure it will be even better by the time the next version of OS X comes out.

 

[mateus]

Finally upgraded to Mavericks last night. Having read so many complaints, I decided to wait until 10.9.3 was out and confirmed stable before upgrading from Mountain Lion.

Before upgrading I updated all programs/drivers, ran EtreCheck and removed any highlighted problem launch daemons, ran a disk permission repair and finally backed up using Time Machine.

Then, with some degree of trepidation, I ran the Mavericks install which took about 1 hour to complete (on a 2011 MacBook Pro).

I'm very happy to report that everything appears to have gone smoothly

I ran EtreCheck again and it highlighted a few 'failed' non-essential third party launch daemons (e.g. from Adobe & Google), so I deleted them.

Other than the usual programs, I also use Eclipse (Android Dev), VMWare Fusion 4, CrossOver and Outlook 2011 (for work). Everything seems to work. I read that VMware Fusion 4 is not fully Mavericks compatible and it's recommend to disable App Nap on this app, but I've not had any problems.

 

[klogg]

Please return old color scheme for files, please APPLE!

 

[r0k]

I upgraded to Mavericks and noticed beachballs and other nonsense going on. I took two steps to smooth things out.

1) I archived 140,000 of my 160,000 emails. This was crashing every email client I tried and was probably the sole reason for the dozens of mail.app crash reports I was sending to Apple, often adding my own comments like: "Can I go back to Snow Leopard?" This made a huge difference.

2) I installed an SSD drive and part of the procedure was to install Mavericks fresh (using a USB installer stick I made) then use Migration Assistant to bring everything over.

I have enjoyed stability ever since. As an OSX user since Tiger, IMHO there is nothing wrong with Mavericks that a clean install can't cure.

 

[dmccloud]

Some people who claim they have no issues must be delusional apple fan boys, have memory problems, or are simply noobies to the world with no experience with what was once the norm, that being, stability and efficiency. Snow Leopard comes to mind and that was some time ago.

The days when Apple used to focus on stability, simplicity, and common sense are long gone. The reality for me is that Mavericks has taken a back seat to my Windows 7 install. Pretty sad but true.

So what you're saying is that because you have issues, everyone else must have them too? Then why are Apple's reliability ratings trending upwards? Sorry, but your experience is NOT representative of the majority of Apple users, no matter how how hard you try to convince yourself otherwise.

----------

The issue itself is that every new OS has it's share of issues. To focus the issue itself we have to address the bigger picture, which will inevitably get one labeled a whiner.

The reason this pattern you don't like continues endlessly is that....

1) Apple has built a user base of a great many non-technical customers via it's "point and click simple" ad campaigns.

2) Apple then releases beta software proclaimed to be finished and ready for the general public.

3) Apple then refuses to teach that user base how to safely test a new OS in a separate partition or drive.

Just stop this meaningless crusade. Your "justifications" are based on weak, strawman arguments, ignore every bit of factual evidence that proves you wrong, and goes against Apple's philosophy. You might call Mavericks "beta", but it's far from beta software. Not sure why you have such a hard time accepting the truth on this one.

----------

you're kidding right? we should TEST each new OS on 'a separate partition or drive'...instead of, say, installing the new OS and then focusing on our REAL work? that we should all find the time to do this?

the whole idea (i believe) is to make an OS that anyone can use...but that POWER users can do even more with. and, while certainly not perfect, OS X does that.

are you saying that the mac should be for the hardcore techies only?

Felasco jumps on these forums, spams threads with this "mission" of his, then ignores all arguments proving him wrong before disappearing for a couple of weeks. Then he returns and starts the process all over again.

 

[fisherking]

So what you're saying is that because you have issues, everyone else must have them too? Then why are Apple's reliability ratings trending upwards? Sorry, but your experience is NOT representative of the majority of Apple users, no matter how how hard you try to convince yourself otherwise.

----------



Just stop this meaningless crusade. Your "justifications" are based on weak, strawman arguments, ignore every bit of factual evidence that proves you wrong, and goes against Apple's philosophy. You might call Mavericks "beta", but it's far from beta software. Not sure why you have such a hard time accepting the truth on this one.

----------



Felasco jumps on these forums, spams threads with this "mission" of his, then ignores all arguments proving him wrong before disappearing for a couple of weeks. Then he returns and starts the process all over again.

ah...got it.

here's an idea: when a new OS comes out, we buy another mac, and test it there first. simple. or, TWO new macs, so we can also compare the new OS on BOTH macs...just for balance. or THREE new macs, so we can average out our test experiences... or....

 

[bigpoppamac31]

I upgraded to Mavericks and noticed beachballs and other nonsense going on. I took two steps to smooth things out.

1) I archived 140,000 of my 160,000 emails. This was crashing every email client I tried and was probably the sole reason for the dozens of mail.app crash reports I was sending to Apple, often adding my own comments like: "Can I go back to Snow Leopard?" This made a huge difference.

2) I installed an SSD drive and part of the procedure was to install Mavericks fresh (using a USB installer stick I made) then use Migration Assistant to bring everything over.

I have enjoyed stability ever since. As an OSX user since Tiger, IMHO there is nothing wrong with Mavericks that a clean install can't cure.

Well I finally installed Mavericks once 10.9.3 came out. Everything seems fine for me. But does a "clean install" differ from installing it direct from the App store? To my knowledge I've never done a clean install before. I have an SSD and 8GB of Ram in a 2011 MBP.

 

[Weaselboy]

Well I finally installed Mavericks once 10.9.3 came out. Everything seems fine for me. But does a "clean install" differ from installing it direct from the App store? To my knowledge I've never done a clean install before. I have an SSD and 8GB of Ram in a 2011 MBP.

It is different. A clean install involves completely erasing the drive then reinstalling the OS, then manually reinstalling all your apps and settings and manually moving your data back. It can be a lot of work if you have many apps and custom configurations and don't know exactly what you are doing.

If your system is running okay now, there is little to be gained by a clean install.

 

[bigpoppamac31]

It is different. A clean install involves completely erasing the drive then reinstalling the OS, then manually reinstalling all your apps and settings and manually moving your data back. It can be a lot of work if you have many apps and custom configurations and don't know exactly what you are doing.

If your system is running okay now, there is little to be gained by a clean install.

Hmm okay. I have 52 Apps all together. Plus my music, videos and photos. But doing a clean install would eliminate any "junk" on my hard drive? Is there a tutorial on this?

 

[Weaselboy]

Hmm okay. I have 52 Apps all together. Plus my music, videos and photos. But doing a clean install would eliminate any "junk" on my hard drive?

The way OS X is installed/updated now is it moves aside the old OS version and installs the new version, so the OS part of things is essentially a clean install. Where you run into trouble is if you have utilities running that conflict with the new OS version. For example, when Mavs came out there were some conflicts with utilities that modified the way the menu looks and the way the dock looks. So a true "clean install" would fix those conflicts if one was unable to figure out how to uninstall those utilities.

Any "junk files" would be in the user space under your user name typically in the user ~/Library/Application Support folder or ~/Library/Preferences. Even then the only junk in there would be from apps you installed then later removed without deleting all associated files. And even those just sit there taking a little disk space.

Is there a tutorial on this?

Doing the clean install is as easy as a command-r boot to recovery then use Disk Util to erase Macintosh HD and reinstall the OS. The real work is getting everything manually back afterwards and that varies so much from system to system depending on what you have installed, I have never seen a comprehensive tutorial.

If you have a very very simple setup you could just reinstall your apps from the App Store then drag documents, music, videos etc back and turn iCloud back on to resync contacts and calendar.

I mean no offense by this next statement and I hope you take it in the spirit intended )), but IMO a clean install is one of those that if you have to ask how to do it, maybe you should not be doing it. I have seen so many people on here try a clean install then come back here sad because now they can't find their bookmarks or address book contents etc.

 

[bigpoppamac31]

The way OS X is installed/updated now is it moves aside the old OS version and installs the new version, so the OS part of things is essentially a clean install. Where you run into trouble is if you have utilities running that conflict with the new OS version. For example, when Mavs came out there were some conflicts with utilities that modified the way the menu looks and the way the dock looks. So a true "clean install" would fix those conflicts if one was unable to figure out how to uninstall those utilities.

Any "junk files" would be in the user space under your user name typically in the user ~/Library/Application Support folder or ~/Library/Preferences. Even then the only junk in there would be from apps you installed then later removed without deleting all associated files. And even those just sit there taking a little disk space.



Doing the clean install is as easy as a command-r boot to recovery then use Disk Util to erase Macintosh HD and reinstall the OS. The real work is getting everything manually back afterwards and that varies so much from system to system depending on what you have installed, I have never seen a comprehensive tutorial.

If you have a very very simple setup you could just reinstall your apps from the App Store then drag documents, music, videos etc back and turn iCloud back on to resync contacts and calendar.

I mean no offense by this next statement and I hope you take it in the spirit intended )), but IMO a clean install is one of those that if you have to ask how to do it, maybe you should not be doing it. I have seen so many people on here try a clean install then come back here sad because now they can't find their bookmarks or address book contents etc.

Well this is a tutorial I found. It says that once I've done a "clean install" of Mavericks I can transfer everything back using either a Time Machine backup or Migration Assistant.

 

[Weaselboy]

Well this is a tutorial I found. It says that once I've done a "clean install" of Mavericks I can transfer everything back using either a Time Machine backup or Migration Assistant.

Your link did not come though, but that tutorial is incorrect. Using Migration Assistant to automatically move everything back is not a true clean install. For example, if you have junk accumulated in ~/Library/Application Support, Migration Assistant puts it right back there.

The only way to do a true clean install is a fresh OS install and a manual move of all settings, apps, and data back.

You could use a Time Machine backup as the source to manually copy files back from though. But it is still a manual process.

Are you having some problem that makes you want to do this?