MBP 16" - Love it but hate some things.

[Alex W.]

Firstly, I need a laptop to contiune my work.

This 16" is great but it has a couple big things hurting me - Coil wine giving me headaches, and the display ghosting making me motion sick.
Now paying $3400 - I dont want to get stuck with a lemon.

Does applecare / apple give good enough support that if their product is continues to be a problem for me (after the return window) are they kind enough to replace their unit with one that potentially fixes these issues (2020 16" for example).

Its such a hard position to be put in. But id im sure there are some people out here who have had an experience with dealing with apple.

 

[MrGimper]

You won’t get a replacement for a newer model, and tbh Apple haven’t even acknowledged what you mention as faults so probably wouldn’t even sanction a repair. If those “issues” you mention are intolerable, don’t order, or return if you have the device already and are in the return period.

 

[Smoothie]

Would you rather take the gamble that Apple will replace your MBP based upon complaints you had from the start or would you rather have the certainty that you could return it now? It's a simple choice.

 

[hvfsl]

Coil wine can be caused because you are using a power supply which isn't grounded. The display ghosting is going to be a limitation of the display Apple are using, so if you find it that bad, your only choice is going to be to wait until Christmas for the next model or get a PC laptop with a 144hz screen. I personally don't have an issue with the screen.

My only complaint with it is the popping when playing sounds through the speakers when doing CPU intensive stuff (games). But I mainly use with Bluetooth headphones (Sony MDR1000x3), so it doesn't really affect me that much.

 

[Malus120]

Coil whine and ghosting. I'm sorry you're having those issues, that sucks
If you're within the return window return it, get another one (if that's what you want) and see if it has similar issues. If it's a BTO, order another one, wait until it arrives (otherwise you'll be stuck without a machine for a good bit), and then make your return decisions.
Coil whine is something I've never seen on a Mac, and especially on a notebook IMHO it's unacceptable.

If you're outside the return window, do you have AppleCare(+)? If so, give them a call, and insist that they address these issues for you. Being unwilling to take no for an answer can be an effective way of getting what Apple euphemistically calls a "customer satisfaction," (or some such terminology) repair, even if it's not normally something they consider a "defect" (like keyboard marks on the screen apparently!).

If you don't have AppleCare yet, buy it (you can always cancel for a full refund up until I believe the one year mark) and attempt the above.

Hope you get this resolved!

 

[njean777]

I would return it if it really is doing all that, you won't be happy with it especially if you know those issues are there. Maybe get a windows laptop that offers the same performance or more. Or wait for the update to the 16in.

 

[Alex W.]

Im hearing conflicted views on this - I have not had much of a chance to use the laptop during the 14 day return window and now that its expired (but the apples stores are closed) im unsure what to do.

Also, I have a company i run and using OSX is important as i built hundred of templates in iwork for my apps.
I got rid of my 13" MBP so now i really dont have a choice.

The screen is making me sick, where im taking motion sickness pills to lessen the effect. The coil whine im extremely sensitive to where its taking my focus away from my work, where i need to play audio or music to drown it out.

I dont think im being unresonable if apple has downgraded important aspects of their design when its effecting my health. If these issues are corrected in the newer units - I dont think its unresonable to request a swamp for same specs. I'm not looking to take advantage of Apple, just trying to have a 3500 dollar laptop that isnt destorying my workflow.

I havent gotten apple care yet, as my credit card gives me 4 years total -- Can i still use this in such a manner or do i need applecare to get higher tier service?
[automerge]1588458413[/automerge]

Coil whine and ghosting. I'm sorry you're having those issues, that sucks
If you're within the return window return it, get another one (if that's what you want) and see if it has similar issues. If it's a BTO, order another one, wait until it arrives (otherwise you'll be stuck without a machine for a good bit), and then make your return decisions.
Coil whine is something I've never seen on a Mac, and especially on a notebook IMHO it's unacceptable.

If you're outside the return window, do you have AppleCare(+)? If so, give them a call, and insist that they address these issues for you. Being unwilling to take no for an answer can be an effective way of getting what Apple euphemistically calls a "customer satisfaction," (or some such terminology) repair, even if it's not normally something they consider a "defect" (like keyboard marks on the screen apparently!).

If you don't have AppleCare yet, buy it (you can always cancel for a full refund up until I believe the one year mark) and attempt the above.

Hope you get this resolved!

Thank you for this, I was considering sending Tim Cook a letter and emailing all his staff to express my concerns with being stuck with a 3500 dollar laptop that is making me sick, while i can deal with it for a short while - I would hope this gets corrected so i can fully enjoy the unit.

 

[MrGimper]

If you didn’t test it during the 14 day window then unless there’s mitigating circumstances I think you’re screwed. What you describe I wouldn’t see Apple confirming as faults.

 

[bill-p]

So my 16" has no coil whine. I should know because I do acoustic measurements of my speakers and headphones sometimes and if the MacBook was interfering, it would have shown up. So I'm guessing yours may indeed be a lemon in that regard.

Also the screen doesn't ghost significantly worse than my 13", which I still have. There could be a difference in screen quality... because I vaguely recall that when we first got the Retina MacBooks, people were getting a mix of LG versus Samsung displays, which were markedly different in how they rendered colors.

 

[maflynn]

coil whine is a crap shoot, some have it others don't. Ghosting is not a gamble, its due to apple cutting corners and using an inferior display

If I was spending over 3k, I would expect perfection.

 

[MrGimper]

coil whine is a crap shoot, some have it others don't. Ghosting is not a gamble, its due to apple cutting corners and using an inferior display

If I was spending over 3k, I would expect perfection.

Unfortunately you'll never get perfection on a mass-produced consumer item.

 

[trusso]

Unfortunately you'll never get perfection on a mass-produced consumer item.

Ergo, we must simply accept these flaws?

 

[MrGimper]

Ergo, we must simply accept these flaws?

No, that's not what I said, and I'm pretty sure you know that.

 

[jerryk]

If Ghosting bothers you then likely the only fix is to get a different computer. . Maybe someday Apple will use a higher refresh rate display, but for now the display is what it is.

 

[maflynn]

Unfortunately you'll never get perfection on a mass-produced consumer item.

I disagree, Apple promotes and prices their laptops as a premium product, and as such you should expect a premium experience. Ghosting and display issues on a 3,000+ laptop is totally unacceptable.

 

[MrGimper]

I disagree, Apple promotes and prices their laptops as a premium product, and as such you should expect a premium experience. Ghosting and display issues on a 3,000+ laptop is totally unacceptable.

I agree, but they still won't be perfect.

 

[trusso]

No, that's not what I said, and I'm pretty sure you know that.

Just clarifying. I've seen plenty of folks make the "world's not perfect" argument as an excuse for poor products, poor infrastructure, poor education... as if we can't or shouldn't do better.

 

[maflynn]

I agree, but they still won't be perfect.

Maybe its semantics, but there's a difference between accepting a product with a minor annoyance vs a screen not functioning to a level that is expected for such a premium device or telling someone to accept the coil whine just because.

For 3000 dollars its not unreasonable to expect a machine free of any sort of coil whine, speaker crackle, sticky keys, or ghosting in the display.

 

[bill-p]

While I personally can agree that one should expect a display free of ghosting and other issues, I feel like... it's overblown.

I don't try to read texts while I'm scrolling.

And my main day job is literally to read thousands of lines of texts a day. Font rendering and screen sharpness is far more of a problem for me.

Also I did not price this machine above $3000. I know from experience that it makes more sense to get a machine now and expect to upgrade from it 2-3 years down the line, instead of trying to spec it so that it'll be "future-proof" for the next 5 years. If talks of a transition to ARM are true, it's even more reason for me to not try and get any Intel Mac with high specifications.

But I guess... YMMV.

Having said that, coil whine, being unable to reach full CPU performance when operating the computer with the lid open with an external monitor attached, or speaker popping (I don't get this with mine either), etc... are indeed legitimate issues that should not exist with a machine at this caliber.

But then... I have also used some other Windows machines in recent years, and let's just say... the constant ThrottleStop ritual, constant Windows updates bogging eGPU support, constant driver issues, or the fact that Thunderbolt 3 implementation is not equal across them all (either it's 20gbps, or I can't charge via Thunderbolt 3, or the computer needs a specific wattage or can't charge at all)... even for computers upwards of $2K, like... say... the Dell XPS 15. I can go on and on, but you get the idea. The grass is truly not greener on the other side.

The 16" MacBook is not perfect, but I honestly haven't seen anything on the Windows side as "complete" as it is.

P.S.: here's one small thing that a MacBook does that I haven't been able to get from any Windows laptop, but please feel free to correct me: in clamshell mode (meaning, the MacBook is already asleep), if I plug in a Thunderbolt 3 display and tap a key on an external keyboard (connected either via Bluetooth or USB), the MacBook will wake up with the Thunderbolt 3 display attached. This works both on the Mac OS side and with Bootcamp.

It's simple but honestly, I have pulled my hairs out trying to configure my Dell XPS 15 to do this for a long time, and I just gave up eventually.

 

[maflynn]

I feel like... it's overblown.

Maybe it is, maybe it isn't but one thing is sure, many people are unhappy with the 16" display

I don't try to read texts while I'm scrolling

I don't think people are using the 16" model any different than prior models,

constant Windows updates bogging eGPU support, constant driver issues,

Maybe its the egpu you picked because I found my Razer Core X to be problem free. I slapped a RTX 2060 Super in that bad boy, and I was off to the races. I'd have to say egpu support in windows far exceeds that in macOS.

It's simple but honestly, I have pulled my hairs out trying to configure my Dell XPS 15 to do this for a long time, and I just gave up eventually.

That's too bad, and I don't think your experience is typical - For instance, I was able to get up and running on my ThinkPad and now Razer Blade within minutes.

 

[Falhófnir]

Unfortunately you'll never get perfection on a mass-produced consumer item.

Yes as far as random production imperfections goes - and those could be solved by changing the unit, but the ghosting is an inherent property of the display panel (poor response time) which won't change until Apple changes the panel (hopefully at the end of this year with mini LED). While I'm not sure about 'cutting corners' (it's likely that was the best panel they could obtain that had all the properties they wanted at the time) it's really not ideal to have to make this sort of compromise on a computer that can cost over £6k, and at least £2,400.

 

[bill-p]

Maybe it is, maybe it isn't but one thing is sure, many people are unhappy with the 16" display

Agreed. That's why I said YMMV.

I don't think people are using the 16" model any different than prior models,

I'm not using the 16" any differently. Neither the 16" nor the 13" can hold a candle to my external monitor in response time. Both ghost exactly the same way to me. From notebookcheck's measurements, the 13" is only fractionally (like 3ms) faster than the 16" so... yeah, maybe I'm just not sensitive to that 3ms difference.

Again, both ghost exactly the same way to me.

Maybe its the egpu you picked because I found my Razer Core X to be problem free. I slapped a RTX 2060 Super in that bad boy, and I was off to the races. I'd have to say egpu support in windows far exceeds that in macOS.

Windows 10 May 1903 update breaks thunderbolt drivers installation

Hi, 1903 Win update breaks thunderbolt full functionality for me. EGPU Aorus Gaming Box GF 1070 is no longer recognized by the system. In Win 10 1809 everything works ok. I guess there are two reasons Thunderbolt firmware update...

h30434.www3.hp.com

It's great that you're not seeing issues, but that doesn't mean others haven't. Bootcamp is especially unforgiving to eGPU. Let's say. It got worse after 1903, which is why I'm with the 16" now instead of continuing on with the 13" + eGPU setup.

That's too bad, and I don't think your experience is typical - For instance, I was able to get up and running on my ThinkPad and now Razer Blade within minutes.

Which Razer Blade is this?

I did try this with a Razer Blade 15" 2018 and it did not work for this use case with the monitor directly (edit: sorry wrong reddit link). Couldn't be bothered to try a dock:

https://www.reddit.com/r/razer/comments/991a1p

What the use case is:
1. Laptop must already be asleep with the lid closed.
2. Plug Thunderbolt 3 cable into laptop.
3. Tap a key on external keyboard. The external monitor wakes up here.

I couldn't do this with the Razer Blade 15" 2018 or the Dell XPS 15" 9570 or my work-issued HP ZBook G3 15". I had to open the lid with all of them then close the lid. The MacBook Pro 16" and my MacBook Pro 13" from 2018 works this way even with Bootcamp. I don't think I'm going crazy?

 

[tothemoonsands]

Thank you for posting this (and sorry to hear about these issues!). I was on the fence for a 16" but now I will firmly wait to see what the 2020 13/14" brings. Hopefully these issues are resolved.

 

[maflynn]

Bootcamp is especially unforgiving to eGPU.

Again that points back to Apple's tepid support of windows and its drivers. I'd say a PC will have better luck with a egpu.

I did try this with a Razer Blade 15" 2018 and it did not work for this use case with the monitor directly (edit: sorry wrong reddit link). Couldn't be bothered to try a dock:

I have a 2019 15" Razer blade and I currently have it hooked up to my Core X egpu and an ancient Apple LED Cinema display (24") I was using the RB, on a 34" LG ultrawide display but I gave that monitor (temporarily) to my wife while she works at home.

Let me also say I had zero issues with the egpu with my Thinkpad X1 Extreme, both PCs were setup in mere minutes and I had no egpu headaches.

I think if you do your homework on computers and egpus, you'll have good luck and I found egpu.io to be an invaluable resource.

 

[bill-p]

I have a 2019 15" Razer blade and I currently have it hooked up to my Core X egpu and an ancient Apple LED Cinema display (24") I was using the RB, on a 34" LG ultrawide display but I gave that monitor (temporarily) to my wife while she works at home.

Let me also say I had zero issues with the egpu with my Thinkpad X1 Extreme, both PCs were setup in mere minutes and I had no egpu headaches.

I think if you do your homework on computers and egpus, you'll have good luck and I found egpu.io to be an invaluable resource.

I have had to RMA my NUC6 twice due to Thunderbolt 3 issues.

Dell XPS 15 9570 only has 20gbps Thunderbolt 3, which prompted me to try the Razer Blade 15", which also didn't fare much better (disconnect issues).

And egpu.io literally warns against updating Windows 10 past 1903 if eGPU is to be used with a Bootcamp Mac. The only fix is a firmware hack.

Let's just say my experience has been nothing but bad with eGPU. And Thunderbolt 3 support on Windows PC does not allow the wake mechanism I outlined above, so it's a bit more inconvenient than a Mac for me. But I still do have Windows 10 computers, and that's how I know about these issues.

If these Windows computers are as luxurious as you say, they should not be "picky" with regards to what docks and what GPUs I can use, and everything should just "work" as intended. i.e.: your same argument against the 16" MacBook: it should just work. I should not have to do my "homework" per se.