MBP 2011 Ivy v Sandy Bridge

[kamil.amersi]

Hi,

I am unsure weather to buy now or wait for the 2011 MBP. I have heard rumours around new MBP 2011 coming out Q1 2011. Do you guys think that they apple would rather wait for Ivy Bridge and rather launch in Q3/4 2011 and go for the christmas spike in sales. this also corresponds with they financial reporting period

what are your thoughts?

Kamil

 

[grahamcracker]

your crazy

 

[kamil.amersi]

your crazy

why on earth do you think that?

 

[wirelessmacuser]

your crazy

Look in the mirror.

why on earth do you think that?

Valid question. One that frankly I could debate for hours. Here's a brief summary.

I truly need (due to my work) the most resource laden laptop available, therefore I have always upgraded at each new release, over the last decade. If experience has taught me anything it's that speed, or any other "advantage" of upcoming new chips always looks better on paper than once you have the machine in front of you, in use.

I'm not saying there is no value to waiting, if you truly do not _need_ a computer in the relatively near future. But you will always pay in a variety of ways for "the latest". Sometimes in the amount of bugs present in a new model.

So, setting aside the lure of the lastest, and greatest. Ask yourself if you've not better off buying the current machine.

Cheers...

 

[Hellhammer]

Ivy Bridge - CES 2012

Just like before.

 

[StephenHuang]

Hi,

I am unsure weather to buy now or wait for the 2011 MBP. I have heard rumours around new MBP 2011 coming out Q1 2011. Do you guys think that they apple would rather wait for Ivy Bridge and rather launch in Q3/4 2011 and go for the christmas spike in sales. this also corresponds with they financial reporting period

what are your thoughts?

Kamil

you should wait until you really need a MBP

 

[kamil.amersi]

Look in the mirror.


Valid question. One that frankly I could debate for hours. Here's a brief summary.

I truly need (due to my work) the most resource laden laptop available, therefore I have always upgraded at each new release, over the last decade. If experience has taught me anything it's that speed, or any other "advantage" of upcoming new chips always looks better on paper than once you have the machine in front of you, in use.

I'm not saying there is no value to waiting, if you truly do not _need_ a computer in the relatively near future. But you will always pay in a variety of ways for "the latest". Sometimes in the amount of bugs present in a new model.

So, setting aside the lure of the lastest, and greatest. Ask yourself if you've not better off buying the current machine.

Cheers...

Thats a good point - the newest always looks better on paper and there will be a newer one after that very shortly. ultimately you settle into your new gadgets and focus on getting the most out of them and kinda zone out from the newest greatest stuff - unless you a tech journalist ofcourse and its your job to keep everyone anticipating so your work seems valuable.

 

[dusk007]

If I understand your question right, your are asking wheter Apple will update now to Sandy Brdige or wait for Ivy Bridge and update before Christmas.

There is little info about 22nm process node available today but even in the best case scenario you will have to wait for Ivy Brdige until beginning 2012.
That is too late for Christmas and even Apple cannot keep selling their highend MBPs (15, 17") without dated hardware. They will update to Sandy Bridge as soon as Intel sheds out enough chips.
Sandy Bridge also looks to be a really neat chip that should take care of all of Arrendale's shortcomings. Apple wants Sandy Bridge and they will upgrade almost everything to SB. MBA and MB will probably stay C2D but everything else will be SB in 3-4 months.

Ad sales
One could argue about the Christmas sales but I doubt that it really is that important for Apple. They sell anyway as long as they aren't way behind. But realeasing new Notebooks in spring helps to fill this sales gap and spread the sales a little better over the year.
Anyway they have little choice. They have to follow Intels schedule. Intel releases new chips at the beginning of a year and HP, Asus, Acer ... all put them into their notebooks. If Apple doesn't they will look really outdated. It is okay not to have a Gaming Notebook line but they it is bad for their reputation if they are 1 generation behind in the chips they use. In this industry 3 quarters means almost a generation.

 

[kamil.amersi]

If I understand your question right, your are asking wheter Apple will update now to Sandy Brdige or wait for Ivy Bridge and update before Christmas.

There is little info about 22nm process node available today but even in the best case scenario you will have to wait for Ivy Brdige until beginning 2012.
That is too late for Christmas and even Apple cannot keep selling their highend MBPs (15, 17") without dated hardware. They will update to Sandy Bridge as soon as Intel sheds out enough chips.
Sandy Bridge also looks to be a really neat chip that should take care of all of Arrendale's shortcomings. Apple wants Sandy Bridge and they will upgrade almost everything to SB. MBA and MB will probably stay C2D but everything else will be SB in 3-4 months.

Ad sales
One could argue about the Christmas sales but I doubt that it really is that important for Apple. They sell anyway as long as they aren't way behind. But realeasing new Notebooks in spring helps to fill this sales gap and spread the sales a little better over the year.
Anyway they have little choice. They have to follow Intels schedule. Intel releases new chips at the beginning of a year and HP, Asus, Acer ... all put them into their notebooks. If Apple doesn't they will look really outdated. It is okay not to have a Gaming Notebook line but they it is bad for their reputation if they are 1 generation behind in the chips they use. In this industry 3 quarters means almost a generation.

yeah good point - i noticed that asus alteady has an SB laptop out and by end jan HP et al should also be on the shelves. which essentially means that if apple follows their usual spring shedule, they would be a generation behind for just over 2 months.

 

[mark28]

Thats a good point - the newest always looks better on paper and there will be a newer one after that very shortly. ultimately you settle into your new gadgets and focus on getting the most out of them and kinda zone out from the newest greatest stuff - unless you a tech journalist ofcourse and its your job to keep everyone anticipating so your work seems valuable.

The low end Ivy Bridge is standard quad cores. If those Sandy Bridge CPU's are only Dual cores in the MBP, the Ivy Bridge update is a very big one. The Ivy Bridge upgrade could be as fast as the current i7 iMac. ( if it's around 2.6-2.8 ghz Quad cores i7 )

That's the update i'm waiting for. It's basically Sandy Bridge at 22nm.

 

[iamthedudeman]

No Apple will not wait for Ivy Bridge.
They will update the Mac Book line first as the SB Mobile processors will out first. The Mini will also be updated as will the Air. SB will be in Apple whole line in one form or another this year.

C2D is gone, SB GPU is on Par with nvidia 320. Less voltage, and most likely SSD's will be standard across the line of the MacBook line.
Like Steve said at the keynote all of Apples laptops will be similar to the air in the future.
Bye bye OP drive.

 

[kamil.amersi]

No Apple will not wait for Ivy Bridge.
They will update the Mac Book line first as the SB Mobile processors will out first. The Mini will also be updated as will the Air. SB will be in Apple whole line in one form or another this year.

C2D is gone, SB GPU is on Par with nvidia 320. Less voltage, and most likely SSD's will be standard across the line of the MacBook line.
Like Steve said at the keynote all of Apples laptops will be similar to the air in the future.
Bye bye OP drive.

exactly - which is why they touted MBA as "the next generation of macs"

 

[deeddawg]

the newest always looks better on paper and there will be a newer one after that very shortly.

Very good point. Another angle is to consider what specific features will be in the next release and how will you specifically benefit from them in your day to day usage? Say the CPU is 20% faster than the one I have today; will I really truly notice that in my usage? If I did video editing for a living probably so; if instead I do emails and web and light photo editing probably not so much.

The other thing is people act like when you buy a computer you're married to it until death do you part? Why? You can always sell your computer and buy a new one; the price difference is what your upgrade cost will be and thats the worst case cost to switch to the newest technology if something is released that you absolutely must have.

 

[Richard1028]

You can always sell your computer and buy a new one; the price difference is what your upgrade cost will be and thats the worst case cost to switch to the newest technology if something is released that you absolutely must have.

If you bought a MBP today AND the Optical Drive was removed in the next models... I'm guessing a lot of folks will throw a fit and your macbook would command a decent price - maybe more than you paid for it depending on what else Apple does with the new ones.

 

[kamil.amersi]

If you bought a MBP today AND the Optical Drive was removed in the next models... I'm guessing a lot of folks will throw a fit and your macbook would command a decent price - maybe more than you paid for it depending on what else Apple does with the new ones.

Haha - nice one!

 

[iamthedudeman]

The low end Ivy Bridge is standard quad cores. If those Sandy Bridge CPU's are only Dual cores in the MBP, the Ivy Bridge update is a very big one. The Ivy Bridge upgrade could be as fast as the current i7 iMac. ( if it's around 2.6-2.8 ghz Quad cores i7 )

That's the update i'm waiting for. It's basically Sandy Bridge at 22nm.

The i5 2500t SB Quad mobile processors are only 45W. That includes the integrated GPU. If the intel GPU is as good as the early tests suggest, the next MacBook pro could get quad core sooner than you think. the current core i7 dual core in the current MBP and GPU is more than 45W together. It's 35W with just the CPU.

The other mobile processors they will most likely use is the i3 2100t and the i5 2390t which scales up to 3.5ghz with a total 35w.

 

[Hellhammer]

The i5 2500t SB Quad mobile processors are only 45W. That includes the integrated GPU. If the intel GPU is as good as the early tests suggest, the next MacBook pro could get quad core sooner than you think. the current core i7 dual core in the current MBP and GPU is more than 45W together. It's 35W with just the CPU.

Apple can't use only Intel IGP in higher-end models. 330M runs circles around it and even 320M beats it. You would gain some CPU power but it would be a huge downgrade in GPU power.

 

[kamil.amersi]

Apple can't use only Intel IGP in higher-end models. 330M runs circles around it and even 320M beats it. You would gain some CPU power but it would be a huge downgrade in GPU power.

interesting. what do you guys think of the asus sb laptop in terms of the actualy processor

 

[AdamRock]

considering apple doesn't wait more then a year to update a mbp they wont be skipping sandybridge and going for ivy...after they update it to sb then they will wait a year for ivy...

 

[mark28]

The i5 2500t SB Quad mobile processors are only 45W. That includes the integrated GPU. If the intel GPU is as good as the early tests suggest, the next MacBook pro could get quad core sooner than you think. the current core i7 dual core in the current MBP and GPU is more than 45W together. It's 35W with just the CPU.

The other mobile processors they will most likely use is the i3 2100t and the i5 2390t which scales up to 3.5ghz with a total 35w.

Sandy Bridge = 32nm
Ivy Bridge = 22 nm

So Ivy Bridge is more energy efficient and produce less heat due to smaller die size, so they can produce Quad cores with a TDP of 35W. There is also a change in architecture, so they don't need to hit the same clock speeds in order to give the same performance as the current i7 iMac

Btw, it's 35W for the package ( GPU + CPU ). The integrated GPU of Nvidia has a TDP of around 11W or something like that. So for the C2D (25W) + Nvidia, it is also around 35W. The i5/i7 Dual core has probably a TDP of only 25W if Intel excluded the GPU.

 

[NickZac]

Quads in the current MBP may wait till Ivy. Some Intel people have indicated Ivy will be 2nd Q 2011. Put research into Ivy simply one the heat and energy issue.

 

[alent1234]

if intel releases ivy bridge in 2011 then only the Oregon fab will be making those CPU's for a while. and Acer/Dell/HP have priority before Apple

 

[alent1234]

interesting. what do you guys think of the asus sb laptop in terms of the actualy processor

i have a lenovo with a Core i5 and Intel HD. I run Win 7 Ultimate on it with all the eye candy maxed out. except for games it runs everything just fine

 

[altecXP]

I am defiantly waiting only till SNB comes out. the Intel GPU will be good enough for Starcraft2, and Warcraft, and the like so it will be fine for the "casual" gamer. The more hard gamer or those that need CUDA can use what ever nVidia chip Apple goes with. The air and 13in would do fine with the Intel GPU replacing the 320m. While it may be a step backwards the CPU step forwards would be a very sizable one.

If you notice the Intel GPU has beaten the ATi 5450 GPU in quite a few test, putting the Intel maybe 5% slower than the 320M.

 

[mark28]

I am defiantly waiting only till SNB comes out. the Intel GPU will be good enough for Starcraft2, and Warcraft, and the like so it will be fine for the "casual" gamer. The more hard gamer or those that need CUDA can use what ever nVidia chip Apple goes with. The air and 13in would do fine with the Intel GPU replacing the 320m. While it may be a step backwards the CPU step forwards would be a very sizable one.

If you notice the Intel GPU has beaten the ATi 5450 GPU in quite a few test, putting the Intel maybe 5% slower than the 320M.

You got a link for a benchmark where the Intel GPU "beats" the ATI 5450?

The one I saw, the Intel GPU doesn't really beat it, it performs at the same level. And when comparing the same fps from those games with the 320m, the 320m destroys the ATI 5450 and the Intel GPU as it is twice as fast.

edit: However rumors are that ATI is coming with a new integrated GPU that is much faster than the ATI 5450 for it's new CPU architecture in 2011 also.