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MBP AppleCare SUSPENDED Due To Scratch!

computer works fine other than the fan. i doubt the logic board is affected at all by the dent. if it was there would be a lot more problems than a fan malfunction.

just take the computer to a non-apple owned establishment that is certified in making applecare repairs. Done and done.

or just buy the fan on ebay for 20 bucks and do it yourself. Not hard at all.

i got an idea, how about apple listen to the customer, and replace the fan. 5 dollar fan..he's not asking for a new hard drive (which then the dent excuse would work), or a new logic board, or a new LCD. If it's a can of worms and the computer stops working after the replacement then so be it. void the warranty and be done with it. they still made a 235 dollar profit on the guy's Apple Care purchase. they just can't get over even opening the computer, as if they'll break it just by removing the top case. The only physical connection to the logic board is the cable in the center of the computer. After that, it is held on by 4 screws on the bottom and by tabs/screws on the sides. Since the DVI dent is at the very edge, not even bending in the corners of the case or where the screws are mounted (i.e. no abnormal pulling/pushing of the bottom case), the Top case damaging the logic board argument is null.

The Apple genius refusal to even open it to diagnose the issue without buying a new bottom case is plain wrong.
 
THX1139 said:
Interesting thread. I have an old G4 laptop I bought in 2001 that has seen its share of abuse and it doesn't look half as bad as those photos. Of course, it hasn't been dropped either.

And I'm also curious as to why the OP thinks it's normal to "drop" his laptop on a desk even it's only a few centimeters? I've never had to drop mine when I set it down, why do you have to slide your fingers out and let it plop onto the surface? I just take mine out of the bag, set one edge down and then gently set the other edge down. If you're plopping it down, then you have no concept of how to treat a laptop. It's not built for the kind of treatment you have been giving (even though you think it's normal wear and tear) it so no wonder your having problems. Even though it's a laptop, it is still a sensitive electronic instrument.
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Agreed. The OP is stating that it's common to have dings and slight damage after owning it for a meezly 1.5 years. I've had my G4 Alu Powerbook for 4+ years before selling it. I got top dollar for it because I had no dents, scratches or damage to the casing. It was pristine and I used it every single day.
You can keep anything looking new for 10+ years if you take good care of it.
 
Luftwaffles said:
That said, I'm disappointed that the Genius didn't stop and think and at least say "Well, we could send it in and have the machine inspected before we make any decisions as to who should pay what."

Sure, when you're in a setting like a retail store you have to assume some things for the sake of time management, but immediately jumping to the conclusion that the customer is at fault and that he should pay an exorbitant amount of money before even sending the machine in is a horrible business practice and reflects very negatively on AppleCare's claims of "Long-term peace of mind" and "world-class support".
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I actually agree with you on the top paragraph to an extent. As a customer I would've thought the genius would just send it in and let Apple determine if the warranty will be void based on the external damage. The problem with this is you are only looking at this from a customer standpoint. It's most likely his job as the genius to make those determinations. The company may not accept the geniuses just passing the buck, companies want the employees in customer service to take responsibility for their job.

The second part of your paragraph is flawed. It is in fact your fault and the genius is rightfully in order to say it was your fault. It was brought into the store with damage that was not created by Apple.
NOW, IF, the Macbook was defective and showed no damage THEN, the genius would be out of line blaming the customer.
 
HLdan said:
I actually agree with you on the top paragraph to an extent. As a customer I would've thought the genius would just send it in and let Apple determine if the warranty will be void based on the external damage. The problem with this is you are only looking at this from a customer standpoint. It's most likely his job as the genius to make those determinations. The company may not accept the geniuses just passing the buck, companies want the employees in customer service to take responsibility for their job.

The second part of your paragraph is flawed. It is in fact your fault and the genius is rightfully in order to say it was your fault. It was brought into the store with damage that was not created by Apple.
NOW, IF, the Macbook was defective and showed no damage THEN, the genius would be out of line blaming the customer.
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I didn't imply that the Genius was wrong to blame me for the damage, what I was getting at was that the Genius was wrong to just assume that the fan failing was entirely a result of the damage. Blaming me exclusively for the failed fan was unacceptable given his knowledge (or lack thereof) of the functionality of the internals of the laptop. Yes, he should assume that it *could* have caused it, but without opening the machine he has no right to say so definitively.
 
Luftwaffles said:
I didn't imply that the Genius was wrong to blame me for the damage, what I was getting at was that the Genius was wrong to just assume that the fan failing was entirely a result of the damage. Blaming me exclusively for the failed fan was unacceptable given his knowledge (or lack thereof) of the functionality of the internals of the laptop. Yes, he should assume that it *could* have caused it, but without opening the machine he has no right to say so definitively.
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Oh, my apologies on this one but I was only going by what you wrote in your original post. You should take a quick look at it again. You didn't state anywhere that the genius stated that the fan not working was a direct result from the damage on the case. Here's what you said;

After being led to believe that my fan would be taken care of, he gave me the verdict... instead of acknowledging that the non-functioning fan is a manufacturer defect, he opted to suspend my AppleCare warranty until I paid $650 to have the top and bottom cases replaced.


The Genius never did explain to me why a small bow on the top of the superdrive would affect a fan on the exact-opposite corner.

So based on this I am assuming that the genius is voiding the repair due to general overall damage to the casing. Doesn't sound like he was saying that the fan was defective due to the damage.

In any event, I hope you get your machine repaired and Apple comps the case replacement but I would highly recommend that you take better care of your computer in the future. Allowing a $2000+ machine to just plop around in your backpack and banged around is not showing much care for your money my man.
 
HLdan said:
In any event, I hope you get your machine repaired and Apple comps the case replacement but I would highly recommend that you take better care of your computer in the future. Allowing a $2000+ machine to just plop around in your backpack and banged around is not showing much care for your money my man.
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Indeed, as soon as I get the machine back it's going in a $40 InCase plastic shell (especially if Apple comps the case replacement... although I'm not expecting them to given their current stinginess). Regardless of what happened and who's right or wrong, this whole mess has taught me that AppleCare's warranty isn't at all what I thought it would be, and that even though it's a legally-binding contract, the human interaction involved means there are no real guarantees.
 
Luftwaffles said:
I didn't imply that the Genius was wrong to blame me for the damage, what I was getting at was that the Genius was wrong to just assume that the fan failing was entirely a result of the damage. Blaming me exclusively for the failed fan was unacceptable given his knowledge (or lack thereof) of the functionality of the internals of the laptop. Yes, he should assume that it *could* have caused it, but without opening the machine he has no right to say so definitively.
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I completely agree that the assumption that a fan failure is the result of some damage on the exterior is incorrect. Without opening up the computer, how can they say that any damage is the direct result of a drop (or knocking it against something whatever may have caused the dent).

I had an issue with my car yesterday and took it in to the dealer. Was involved in an accident about a month ago where a truck hit the side of my car (his insurance paid for all the damage). At no point did they assume that any issues with the car currently were the result of the incident.

I ended up needing: right axle seal replacement to resolve leaking, trans pan gasket replacement due to leaking, replacement of a torn upper right engine mount, replacement of the crank sensor due to failure (which was the only reason I brought it in). All this cost me only the $50 deductible because it was covered under my extended warranty.

That's how it should be and I don't understand why Apple would see it any other way - unless they can show that any repairs required were the direct result of customer misuse/abuse or anything out of the manufacturer's control.
 
Semiopaque said:
I had an issue with my car yesterday and took it in to the dealer. Was involved in an accident about a month ago where a truck hit the side of my car (his insurance paid for all the damage). At no point did they assume that any issues with the car currently were the result of the incident.

I ended up needing: right axle seal replacement to resolve leaking, trans pan gasket replacement due to leaking, replacement of a torn upper right engine mount, replacement of the crank sensor due to failure (which was the only reason I brought it in). All this cost me only the $50 deductible because it was covered under my extended warranty.

That's how it should be and I don't understand why Apple would see it any other way - unless they can show that any repairs required were the direct result of customer misuse/abuse or anything out of the manufacturer's control.
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You are completely missing the point and your example is quite flawed. Apple's warranty does not cover physical damage and as a result could void the warranty all together based on the situation.
Car insurance covers physical damage so there's no point in the insurance company associating current issues with the car with the accident in question. Most people take the opportunity to get past issues with their car fixed when a recent accident happens and the insurance or their warranty will cover it.
 
HLdan said:
You are completely missing the point and your example is quite flawed. Apple's warranty does not cover physical damage and as a result could void the warranty all together based on the situation.
Car insurance covers physical damage so there's no point in the insurance company associating current issues with the car with the accident in question. Most people take the opportunity to get past issues with their car fixed when a recent accident happens and the insurance or their warranty will cover it.
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I'm not sure I really understand what you are trying to say. To clarify my post, there was an accident - the physical damage caused was covered by the other driver's insurance. Later, there were the issues I listed in my previous post. Those issues were covered by the extended warranty.

It seems like the same type of situation to me. Just because the car had incurred some physical damage previously did not invalidate the warranty I had purchased on the components of the vehicle.

Unless there is a clear association between the physical damage on the exterior of the OPs computer, I do not see how the warranty can be invalidated based on the information I have seen so far. It is possible that the exterior damage caused some internal issues but not certain by any means at this point (how can that be determined without even opening the computer?).

I also don't see any clear information (at least from the pictures provided) that would make me think that just opening it up and taking a look at it would be anymore difficult with the current damages than without - so...why would they not at least make the effort to pop it open and see what the problem is? At that point, sure they may say it has been dropped and it's not covered, but until you can say for sure that the current problem (the fan) is user caused, there is no reason to invalidate the warranty.
 
Let's say YOU buy a MBP today and in a month's time cause a slight dent, similar to the one under discussion. And let's say for the next two years, the machine operates flawlessly.
Then, one day a fan goes. Are some of you actually saying that upon looking at the case of your MBP, the apple Genius can conclude the damage to the fan was caused by the action that caused the dent? Because a machine has a slight dent, does it mean Apple is entitled to assume any future fault is a result of that????
 
Luftwaffles said:
Indeed, as soon as I get the machine back it's going in a $40 InCase plastic shell (especially if Apple comps the case replacement... although I'm not expecting them to given their current stinginess). Regardless of what happened and who's right or wrong, this whole mess has taught me that AppleCare's warranty isn't at all what I thought it would be, and that even though it's a legally-binding contract, the human interaction involved means there are no real guarantees.
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you mite not think they will replace the cover, but you'd be suprised. if you include a post it saying that there is a slight scratch that you would like fixed they MIGHT. they did with "There is a piece missing from the trackpad, can you try to fix it?" when i sent it in 4 the drive
 
I'd call Apple and ask them if they think its reasonable and for advice what to do. Has the OP tried this?
 
I agree with the OP. Damage looks cosmetic and very unlikely to be directly linked to to the fan failure.

The genius is being overly picky especially considering the amount of work that is being asked. It's not a logic board, its a $5 fan.

With regards to Apple not being able to put it back together you have to be joking me. What kind of weak ass excuse is that? You can easily bend the DVI port back into shape. I'm sure the OP will agree that if some bending needs to be done to get the case back together this is acceptable given the original dent.
 
Luftwaffles said:
...Regardless of what happened and who's right or wrong, this whole mess has taught me that AppleCare's warranty isn't at all what I thought it would be, and that even though it's a legally-binding contract, the human interaction involved means there are no real guarantees.
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Therein lies your problem. You think that Applecare is a guarantee to repair a computer that YOU broke or caused to malfunction. You say that it has "normal" wear and tear, but according to the photos and age of the machine, it's clear that it's been abused beyond "normal" treatment. If a computer is mistreated (and yours certainly was), then why should Apple be responsible to repair anything that may have been a direct result of that? The warranty should cover anything that breaks or stops working due to malfunction - not caused due to mistreatment. The only thing I will give you is that I agree that the Genius should have just sent the laptop in for an estimate and not got into it with you. However, the red flag was the condition of your computer and they decided that it was abused.

However, if you press them they will probably make it right even though you probably don't deserve it. Good luck with that.
 
Chris F said:
With regards to Apple not being able to put it back together you have to be joking me. What kind of weak ass excuse is that? You can easily bend the DVI port back into shape. I'm sure the OP will agree that if some bending needs to be done to get the case back together this is acceptable given the original dent.
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Why should Apple take the risk of bending the computer back into shape without compensation? What if, by trying to fix the fan, they make the computer worse? Then they are stuck with having to replace the whole machine because they became part of the problem. Why do you think Apple should even have to bother when it's beyond doing a simple replacement or repair of a part? Applecare is not intended for fixing stuff that the user caused... and that's what happened here.

Here, let me give you another way for you to look at it. What if you sold your car to some dude who asked if everything was okay with it? Since you know that the car is reliable and in great shape you give him a 3 day "you'll fix anything that is broke" guarantee. Two days later the guy comes back with the car and complains that the steering pulls to the right and it vibrates at 60MPH. Well, you look at the car and notice mud and scratches all over it. It's clear that he's mistreated the car by taking it off-road. How do you feel about doing the repairs? Did the scratches cause the car to go out of alignment or bend the axle? No, it was the treatment that probably caused it - the scratches are the symptom of the problem. Same thing with the laptop in this thread. I rest my case.
 
THX1139 said:
Therein lies your problem. You think that Applecare is a guarantee to repair a computer that YOU broke or caused to malfunction. You say that it has "normal" wear and tear, but according to the photos and age of the machine, it's clear that it's been abused beyond "normal" treatment. If a computer is mistreated (and yours certainly was), then why should Apple be responsible to repair anything that may have been a direct result of that? The warranty should cover anything that breaks or stops working due to malfunction - not caused due to mistreatment. The only thing I will give you is that I agree that the Genius should have just sent the laptop in for an estimate and not got into it with you. However, the red flag was the condition of your computer and they decided that it was abused.

However, if you press them they will probably make it right even though you probably don't deserve it. Good luck with that.
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THX1139 said:
Why should Apple take the risk of bending the computer back into shape without compensation? What if, by trying to fix the fan, they make the computer worse? Then they are stuck with having to replace the whole machine because they became part of the problem. Why do you think Apple should even have to bother when it's beyond doing a simple replacement or repair of a part? Applecare is not intended for fixing stuff that the user caused... and that's what happened here.

Here, let me give you another way for you to look at it. What if you sold your car to some dude who asked if everything was okay with it? Since you know that the car is reliable and in great shape you give him a 3 day "you'll fix anything that is broke" guarantee. Two days later the guy comes back with the car and complains that the steering pulls to the right and it vibrates at 60MPH. Well, you look at the car and notice mud and scratches all over it. It's clear that he's mistreated the car by taking it off-road. How do you feel about doing the repairs? Did the scratches cause the car to go out of alignment or bend the axle? No, it was the treatment that probably caused it - the scratches are the symptom of the problem. Same thing with the laptop in this thread. I rest my case.
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So you're perfectly fine with saying that everybody who has the slightest bit of damage on their laptop doesn't deserve to have ANYTHING on their computer repaired under warranty?

You're going to sit there and tell us that if there's a dent on one side of the machine, perhaps from a light impact with something else on a desk, that a $300 warranty plan should be suspended immediately and a fan on the other side that stopped working prior to that incident should not be replaced?

Well, then thank God your name isn't Steve. God knows how long you'd be in business. Read this entire thread and count how many times people have mentioned worse laptops being repaired with no questions asked. I think you'll need more than one hand.

Not all of us leave our laptops sitting on a desk for its entire operational life. I'm sorry, but I really hate the fact that Apple puts forth this image of "Everything is perfect, la-de-da, crisp and clean and untouched". It looks like that image has rubbed off on the customers and it is now an expectation that a machine should be absolutely pristine at the end of its 3 year warranty. Looks like the Steve Jobs RDF goes way beyond trade shows and product releases. This is the real world. Even beautiful machines can get scratched up. As much as some people think Steve Jobs is the Second Coming, I think it's necessary to stress the point that these machines are anything but invincible.
 
THX1139 said:
Why should Apple take the risk of bending the computer back into shape without compensation? What if, by trying to fix the fan, they make the computer worse? Then they are stuck with having to replace the whole machine because they became part of the problem. Why do you think Apple should even have to bother when it's beyond doing a simple replacement or repair of a part? Applecare is not intended for fixing stuff that the user caused... and that's what happened here.

Here, let me give you another way for you to look at it. What if you sold your car to some dude who asked if everything was okay with it? Since you know that the car is reliable and in great shape you give him a 3 day "you'll fix anything that is broke" guarantee. Two days later the guy comes back with the car and complains that the steering pulls to the right and it vibrates at 60MPH. Well, you look at the car and notice mud and scratches all over it. It's clear that he's mistreated the car by taking it off-road. How do you feel about doing the repairs? Did the scratches cause the car to go out of alignment or bend the axle? No, it was the treatment that probably caused it - the scratches are the symptom of the problem. Same thing with the laptop in this thread. I rest my case.
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Your car scenario would be more simlar to this case if you charged him extra money for the 3 day guarantee, the car had one scratch on the roof, a dent in one door and the problem he was having was that the radio didn't work. Sure it could have been something he had done, but you don't know that and, without further investigation, it's really impossible to say with any degree of certainty.
 
This thread is rife with the most odious Apple apologists. Apparently if I call them out directly my post will be "edited" by a helpful moderator, presumably because MacRumors can't tolerate that level of honesty.
 
love it

Im so excited to find out what happens, I check this thread every day when I get home. This is like an apple nerd soap opera!
 
I completely agree! This thread is better than prime time television! We should start making bets...

Seriously though, I'm surprised Apple is being so strict with this. How long has this feud been going on? In all likelihood, it would have cost Apple less if they just repaired the cheap fan... even with the risk of a damaged logic board!

For the record, even if the computer was dropped, I'm rooting for the OP. I always want the underdog to win!
 
Beyond all the back and forth I would still like to know what exactly is going on between this guy and apple. Has he called Customer Care instead of dealing with the corporate guys? (believe it or not they sometimes do more).

What's the timeline of events? We can argue until the cows come home about who did what and what constitutes damage. Ultimately the record is the only thing that apple will care about when it comes to fixing this thing. What is the previous repair history on this computer? has it had similar lower case repairs? Has this fan been a continuos problem?

Was it literally a genius on a bad day spitting venom at a customer who didn't deserve it? If so you have a consumer case against apple. Truthfully if you want action you should not expect apple to do something just because you feel they have to do it for you, you should expect apple (or any corporation) to move to do the right thing only if they expect to have bad press or legal action against them. Have you mentioned that you have this thread? perhaps you should find a blog to write up your story to. Apple does not like to have people tell there sob stories and are much more likely to help you in the end. It might seem cruel or unfair but honestly these companies have a lot more money than we do right now and they wont let it go as easily as one expects.

In the end after reading this guys stories and seeing how he has responded to our "attacks" but not to give us updates with what is happening with apple im willing to believe he probably dropped this thing a couple times and tried to get it fixed, and by some extraordinary set of circumstances he got a REALLY angry genius who decided that today just wouldn't be this customers day.


Shake it off man, make some calls. Raise the alarms, make a HELL of a lot of noise and you will be surprised by how quickly your problems will be resolved. This is not just for Apple, but for any corporation that is not fulfilling its customer promise.
 
That really sucks. My mom's old Macbook had water damage, and they still replaced the logic board, and Apple Care is still in efect.
 
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