MBP mid-2015 SSD is PCIe 3.0 or 2.0?

[DEMinSoCAL]

I just picked up a mid-2015 MBP 15" that is in Grade A+ condition, i7/16GB/256GB SSD and has 1 battery cycle count! It literally cost me only my time to help switch the owner from it to a new Dell XPS 15 and move their files and emails and set it up with a new printer. Nice trade!

In any case, I bought one of those little SSD adapters on Amazon so I could replace the 256GB SSD with my own 1TB NVMe. Cloned, installed and works great.

I did a speed test with a couple different programs (Blackmagic and Sensei) and both show speeds well over 2300MB/s which is faster than PCIe 2.0 x4. Everymac.com says the mid-2015 MBP 11,4 has PCIe 2.0 x4. Even though this MBP is a mid-2015, it shows it was manufactured in April 2017.

In any case, what's the story? Does this MBP have PCIe 3.0 x4 or PCIe 2.0x4? If the latter, how am I getting faster than 2000MB/s speeds?

 

[Audit13]

It's PICe 3.0 x 4: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/upgrading-2013-2014-macbook-pro-ssd-to-m-2-nvme.2034976/

From the link:

The Retina 15" mid 2015 supports 4x lanes PCIe 3.0 speed eg. up to 3000MB/s. The early 2015 Retina 13" supports 4x lanes PCIe 2.0 speed.
They do both natively support hibernation on NVMe SSD

• MacBook Pro Retina 13" early 2015 (MacBookPro12,1)
• MacBook Pro Retina 15" mid 2015 (MacBookPro11,4-11,5)

 

[mikzn]

Updated my rMBP mid-2015 same as you did (but with 512g) - it is probably using the NVMEespress x 4 not the PCI x 2

I had a significant speed increase when I updated with a "Samsung 970 Pro" - after the upgrade the computer ran much cooler for some reason - great updgrade

you can check in the "About this Mac" menu under "NVMExpress" - see screen shot

 

[DEMinSoCAL]

It's PICe 3.0 x 4: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/upgrading-2013-2014-macbook-pro-ssd-to-m-2-nvme.2034976/

From the link:

The Retina 15" mid 2015 supports 4x lanes PCIe 3.0 speed eg. up to 3000MB/s. The early 2015 Retina 13" supports 4x lanes PCIe 2.0 speed.
They do both natively support hibernation on NVMe SSD

• MacBook Pro Retina 13" early 2015 (MacBookPro12,1)
• MacBook Pro Retina 15" mid 2015 (MacBookPro11,4-11,5)

Well, that makes sense then. I wonder why everymac.com says it is PCIe 2.0?

 

[DEMinSoCAL]

Updated my rMBP mid-2015 same as you did (but with 512g) - it is probably using the NVMEespress x 4 not the PCI x 2

I had a significant speed increase when I updated with a "Samsung 970 Pro" - after the upgrade the computer ran much cooler for some reason - great updgrade

you can check in the "About this Mac" menu under "NVMExpress" - see screen shot

View attachment 937704

Yes, I had checked there earlier, and saw it said "x4" but not what version PCIe. I did not know how to translate the 8.0 GT/s reference.

I noticed that with the original Apple SSD installed, there was nothing under NVMe, instead it was under SATA/SATA Express, even though the Apple SSD was PCIe and was faster than SATA, so why was it listed under SATA?

Can I ask you...if you do a speed test with Blackmagic, are your results consistent? Mine start out slow with each subsequent test being faster, then it tops out in the 2300 or so read and write. Not sure if an issue with the brand of SSD I am using or that is normal behavior.

 

[mikzn]

When I click on the SATA Express I get this comment - "This computer doesn't contain any Serial ATA devices. If you installed Serial ATA devices, make sure they are connected properly and powered on."

When I click on the PCI iget a similar message - "This computer doesn’t contain any PCI cards or devices. If you installed or connected a PCI card or device, make sure it is properly installed."

my guess is that there is different controller firmware used for the NVMExpress ?

When I ran the speed test it does seem to produce consistent results - see screen shot

 

[DEMinSoCAL]

When I click on the SATA Express I get this comment - "This computer doesn't contain any Serial ATA devices. If you installed Serial ATA devices, make sure they are connected properly and powered on."

When I click on the PCI iget a similar message - "This computer doesn’t contain any PCI cards or devices. If you installed or connected a PCI card or device, make sure it is properly installed."

my guess is that there is different controller firmware used for the NVMExpress ?

When I ran the speed test it does seem to produce consistent results - see screen shot

Thanks for trying that. I might try a different brand NVMe to see if my speeds become more consistent.

"PCI" is not PCIe. PCI is an old, old interface. My confusion was why the original Apple SSD was listed under SATA/SATA Express when it was supposed to be a PCIe device, just like the NVMe sticks we put in. I believe they are the same interface.

I'm trying to search for some articles that might explain why the original Apple 256GB SSD is listed under SATA/SATA Express...

 

[herb2k]

"PCI" is not PCIe. PCI is an old, old interface. My confusion was why the original Apple SSD was listed under SATA/SATA Express when it was supposed to be a PCIe device, just like the NVMe sticks we put in. I believe they are the same interface.

I'm trying to search for some articles that might explain why the original Apple 256GB SSD is listed under SATA/SATA Express...

The majority of Apple “gumstick” SSDs are SATAexpress devices (SATA over PCIe), not NVME devices.

 

[DEMinSoCAL]

I had a Samsung 970 512GB lying around so I cloned over to it, and installed it. Ran some speed tests and it was consistently 3000/2300, unlike my 1TB Microcenter (Inland) SSD that was all over the place speed-wise.

So that's good for now, but would ultimately like to get 1TB again when I find a good deal.

The majority of Apple “gumstick” SSDs are SATAexpress devices (SATA over PCIe), not NVME devices.

So SATA over PCIe is faster than normal SATA? I thought SATA is SATA (about 550MB/s max). I'll have to read about SATAExpress. Thanks.

EDIT: AHA! SATAExpress is AHCI, I think. That makes sense. Fast like NVMe, but not NVMe.

 

[herb2k]

So SATA over PCIe is faster than normal SATA? I thought SATA is SATA (about 550MB/s max). I'll have to read about SATAExpress. Thanks.

EDIT: AHA! SATAExpress is AHCI, I think. That makes sense. Fast like NVMe, but not NVMe.

Yep, You got it!

SATAExpress has a maximum limit of about 16gb/sec but in reality comes in slower due to protocol overhead. NVMe is meant to reduce the overhead to allow for faster speeds.

 

[joevt]

The drive in the MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, Mid 2015) is PCIe 3.0 x4 (31.5 Gbps) and uses AHCI instead of NVMe.

PCIe is based on PCI (same 256 bytes of registers in the PCI config space of each device) so Apple just calls it PCI in System Information.app.

SATAExpress only supports 2 PCIe lanes (15.75 Gbps). SATAExpress can use AHCI or NVMe.

SATA 3 supports up to 6 Gbps. It can be controlled by either AHCI or IDE emulation. My MacPro3,1's SATA 2 ports (3 Gbps) use IDE emulation for Boot Camp but there's a way to make it use AHCI which is the default for macOS. AHCI is required to use the two SATA ODD ports of the MacPro3,1 (separate from the 4 drive bay SATA ports and the two PATA ports for the DVD drives).
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The drive in my MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, Mid 2015) can do 1517/2030 MB/s write/read so it is definitely PCIe 3.0 x4. PCIe 2.0 x4 could not reach 2000 MB/s since that is the max without overhead (5 GT/s * 4 * 8b/10T * 1B/8b = 2 GB/s).
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The PCI section of System Information.app only lists PCI devices that are in a PCI slot or connected via Thunderbolt. There are many built in controllers that it does not list.
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There are two types of gum-sticks : those with a PCIe controller (such as AHCI or NVMe) and those without.

M.2 key B (socket 2) devices are SATA (not PCIe). They don't have their own controller. They depend on a SATA/AHCI controller on the motherboard.

Here is a PCIe card that can connect one PCIe M.2 NVMe/AHCI drive (using the PCIe slot) and one SATA M.2 drive (using a SATA cable connection):

Dual M.2 PCIE Adapter for SATA or PCIE NVMe SSD with Advanced Heat Sink Solution,M.2 SSD NVME (m Key) and SATA (b Key) 22110 2280 2260 2242 2230 to PCI-e x 4 Host Controller Expansion Card

Dual M.2 PCIE Adapter for SATA or PCIE NVMe SSD with Advanced Heat Sink Solution,M.2 SSD NVME (m Key) and SATA (b Key) 22110 2280 2260 2242 2230 to PCI-e x 4 Host Controller Expansion Card

www.amazon.com

 

[lachi.dong3]

hello I would like to upgrade my ssd in my MacBook Pro 2015 and found this ssd online

SSD memory with ultra-fast NVMe and PCIe 3.0 technology​

• Capacity: 1 TB
• Interface: PCIe 3.0 x4, NVMe 1.4
• Model: M.2 (2280)
• Read speed: up to 3500 MB/s
• Write speed: up to 3000 MB/s
• Storage memory: Samsung V-NAND 3-bit MLC
• Dynamic heat management

will this be compatible with the Macbook I have ?

 

[harleymhs]

I just picked up a mid-2015 MBP 15" that is in Grade A+ condition, i7/16GB/256GB SSD and has 1 battery cycle count! It literally cost me only my time to help switch the owner from it to a new Dell XPS 15 and move their files and emails and set it up with a new printer. Nice trade!

In any case, I bought one of those little SSD adapters on Amazon so I could replace the 256GB SSD with my own 1TB NVMe. Cloned, installed and works great.

I did a speed test with a couple different programs (Blackmagic and Sensei) and both show speeds well over 2300MB/s which is faster than PCIe 2.0 x4. Everymac.com says the mid-2015 MBP 11,4 has PCIe 2.0 x4. Even though this MBP is a mid-2015, it shows it was manufactured in April 2017.

In any case, what's the story? Does this MBP have PCIe 3.0 x4 or PCIe 2.0x4? If the latter, how am I getting faster than 2000MB/s speeds?

What adapter did you get. I want to update my Mid 2014 MBP with a TB NVMe Like the Samsung 980 Pro .. I didnt think you can use any other SSD besides an Apple SSD. TIA