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Hardware decoding of 4K 10-bit HEVC will eventually become as ubiquitous as H.264 is on hardware today.

I worry more about Apple's transition to a unified I/O port (ThunderBolt3), while excluding every other port. HDMI and DP have already advanced to support 10-bit, but these new versions are not in the ThunderBolt3 spec (obviously). So while other PC manufacturers will be able to use the latest-and-greatest port as they become available, will Mac users have to wait for the likes of ThunderBolt4, etc?

For all the convenience of ThunderBolt3, all of which i appreciate, this seems to be a major drawback for pro users IMHO. Each individual port/protocol gets to improve faster than these 'meta' ports like ThunderBolt.

A correction to my earlier posts. It turns out that Thunderbolt3 via DisplayPort 1.2, does support 4k 30-bit @ 60hz. So the late 2016 and mid 2017 MacBooks with Thunderbolt3 can theoretically output video in 10-bit color. Apologies for the incorrect information.
 
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1. My purport with "let software optimised decoding" was that let them optimise the software for HEVC decoding when there is no hardware support, and that will bring down the 650 percent to within spec. It will take a toll on battery, but please let's not go there. You want to do everything everywhere is it? ONE thing for everything? How high will your expectations go of a portable computer! Can your MBP become the shower gel for you to use? I know, Apple sucks. Still, if you really want to watch 10 bit 4K on 8 bit display, you could just keep the MBP plugged in, and not bother with battery. A portable is a compromise, always. This is not going to change. My car cannot fly, and an aircraft will have difficulty finding parking space on most streets.

2. You are right, but the question of matter is one of need. Do we need 10 bit decoding capability? Without the MBP capable of displaying it on its own display, or able to output via USB-C? 10 bit is a special requirement right now, as it seems, and might take about 2 years to become mainstream enough for people to "need" to have hardware decode.

For now, if the 2016 can handle 10 bit decode via software and 8 bit decode via hardware, I think it is sufficient for 2 years at least. No?

10 bit decoding capability is a special requirement of those who want top quality and have the means to display that top quality right now. If I were to buy a 10 bit capable TV today, I would love to have a 10 bit capable computer that can decode via hardware and output via ports. The real need for 10 bit is for those who are having displays that can see and show the 10 bit, and importantly, we need content that is 10 bit. It is trickling now, give it a year or two, right? By that time, even Apple would have caught up with 10 bit displays and output abilities. What's the fuss and rush? Why make people perfectly happy with their 2016 machines second-guess their purchase and themselves!

If 4K is here and mainstream enough to necessitate Kaby Lake today, we should start wondering about the ability or inability of Kaby to play 8K since that is just over the horizon, yes? When will we just sit and enjoy content, rather than just desire better and better quality? There was news that I heard, somewhere on the planet a photograph shot with an iPhone won an award, instead of those shot with superior quality full-frame and crop-frame DSLRs and lenses worth gazillions of dollars. Imagine the horror. The judges had to explain that composition and content of photograph matters more than technical aspects, something that today's generation of photographers seem to be out of touch with, lost in the sea of technical specifications.

Even Apple based its business on not providing technical specs, right? They were about content creation, enjoyment of said content, never to be bothered how a certain 200MHz will compete with 250MHz of the other company.

Of course, there will be things that 2015 machines won't be able to do. But the thing is, despite 2017 machines capable of hardware decoding of 10 bit, the display itself, of the machine which is proudly capable of decoding 10 bit, is incapable of displaying said 10 bit. To add insult to that injury, it can't even output that 10 bit. How much different is it from 8 bit Skylake then, in practice?

It is like giving a $100 bill to a Martian, where though the bill has value of a hundred dollars in itself, is useless because of the Martian cannot use that value anywhere. What will I do with a Kaby Lake processor thrown in a 2017 MBP if the MBP display is not 10 bit, if the MBP cannot output 10 bit to a 10 bit capable display for me to enjoy? What will I do with those 2 extra bits? Make a fuss on MacRumors?
Do you have a source that 2017 mbp can't output 10 bit color, or explain why it wouldn't? I keep reading conflicting things on this, but thunderbolt 3 apparently has two display port 1.2a streams both of which can support 4k displays at 60 hz 30-bit 4:4:4 color non chroma subsampled. It seems to me that it would work fine but I also came across something about hdr metadata and hdcp 2.2 having trouble over dp 1.2 but I cannot find any additional info on this.

Vesa.org/FAQs/#DisplayPort1.3
https://thunderbolttechnology.net/s...ggzMAE&usg=AFQjCNF5l6mbo4stNcWH_tmYUTf3toQB6g
 
Do you have a source that 2017 mbp can't output 10 bit color, or explain why it wouldn't? I keep reading conflicting things on this, but thunderbolt 3 apparently has two display port 1.2a streams both of which can support 4k displays at 60 hz 30-bit 4:4:4 color non chroma subsampled. It seems to me that it would work fine but I also came across something about hdr metadata and hdcp 2.2 having trouble over dp 1.2 but I cannot find any additional info on this.

Vesa.org/FAQs/#DisplayPort1.3
https://thunderbolttechnology.net/s...ggzMAE&usg=AFQjCNF5l6mbo4stNcWH_tmYUTf3toQB6g

I was only going by the information gleamed from the posters here who provided decent amount of evidence to the effect. :p
 
However, I remember ~12 years ago, when Apple got on board with H.264, and I compare it to today where there isnt any enthusiasm from them to incorporate H.265 into their products or to update OpenGL/Vulkan or QuickTime in macOS.... and I really feel disappointed.

Needless to say, i'm thrilled that they announced HEVC support for both macOS HS and iOS11. And from what I've read and seen of HS, it's the most 'Snow Leopard' release since..... Snow Leopard'. :D
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I was only going by the information gleamed from the posters here who provided decent amount of evidence to the effect. :p

My bad, sorry.
 
Needless to say, i'm thrilled that they announced HEVC support for both macOS HS and iOS11. And from what I've read and seen of HS, it's the most 'Snow Leopard' release since..... Snow Leopard'. :D
Indeed. That period is when I bought a 2009 MacBook Pro 2.26 GHz with nVidia GeForce 9400M, and a 2009 iMac Core i7-860 2.8 GHz with Radeon HD 4850. A prerequisite was that both could handle HD h.264 in hardware. I've been using the MBP until this year. The iMac was replaced with a 2010 model under warranty, and I've been using that until this year too.

And then this year I replaced the MBP with a Kaby Lake MacBook, and the I replaced the iMac with a Kaby Lake iMac. So it may seem to some, but my choice to choose my hardware partially based on codec support has served me quite well.
 
Indeed. That period is when I bought a 2009 MacBook Pro 2.26 GHz with nVidia GeForce 9400M, and a 2009 iMac Core i7-860 2.8 GHz with Radeon HD 4850. A prerequisite was that both could handle HD h.264 in hardware. I've been using the MBP until this year. The iMac was replaced with a 2010 model under warranty, and I've been using that until this year too.

And then this year I replaced the MBP with a Kaby Lake MacBook, and the I replaced the iMac with a Kaby Lake iMac. So it may seem to some, but my choice to choose my hardware partially based on codec support has served me quite well.

Of course, it depends on individual use cases. For me, if I am going to watch HD only, stream youtube videos at max HD quality, in effect not go beyond HD on my computer, I do not need Kaby Lake. Or am I misunderstanding it?
 
Of course, it depends on individual use cases. For me, if I am going to watch HD only, stream youtube videos at max HD quality, in effect not go beyond HD on my computer, I do not need Kaby Lake. Or am I misunderstanding it?
Everyone's different, but the main factor to consider is how everything in your media ecosystem will grow. For example, whenever I record video of even just my kids on my iPhone, I just use the best option is that is available on it. Right now, with my iPhone 7 Plus and iOS 11 beta, all my video now is 4K HEVC 8-bit. Would I downgrade to 1080p h.264 just because my other machines can't handle 4K HEVC? No, I'd rather just get machines that can play it natively.

That is completely unplayable on my old MacBook Pro. On more recent MB Air machines they can be played back for example, but they still have moderate CPU usage (and thus decreased battery life). In this instance, Skylake MacBook Pros (2016) are fine because they will decode 8-bit 4K HEVC in hardware. These will also work fine on the 2016 and 2017 MacBooks. So, in that context, would you actually recommend the MacBook Air or a refurb 2015 MacBook (which can't play it properly)?

Also, these videos don't work at all on my iPad Air 2, even with iOS 11, because the task is simply too much. My iPad Air 2 is a triple-core A8X. Overall the iPad Air 2 is great little device, and in some ways it's better than the most recent iPad, but if someone were to ask me which to buy today, I'd say the later iPad no question, simply because it has 8-bit hardware HEVC decoding built into its dual-core A9.
 
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Everyone's different, but the main factor to consider is how everything in your media ecosystem will grow. For example, whenever I record video of even just my kids on my iPhone, I just use the best option is that is available on it. Right now, with my iPhone 7 Plus and iOS 11 beta, all my video now is 4K HEVC 8-bit. Would I downgrade to 1080p h.264 just because my other machines can't handle 4K HEVC? No, I'd rather just get machines that can play it natively.

That is completely unplayable on my old MacBook Pro. On more recent MB Air machines they can be played back for example, but they still have moderate CPU usage (and thus decreased battery life). In this instance, Skylake MacBook Pros (2016) are fine because they will decode 8-bit 4K HEVC in hardware.

Also, these videos don't work at all on my iPad Air 2, even with iOS 11, because the task is simply too much. My iPad Air 2 is a triple-core A8X. Overall the iPad Air 2 is great little device, and in some ways it's better than the most recent iPad, but if someone were to ask me which to buy today, I'd say the later iPad no question, simply because it has 8-bit hardware HEVC decoding built into its dual-core A9.

Absolutely, I figured that since iOS uses 8-bit 4K HEVC, Skylake could last me for the duration, till the next lake or river or maybe an Apple chipset. :p

I have one more thing, however. A 4K TV is in the order within a year, maybe. If I download 10bit 4K content to play on it, what options would I have to play that content on my TV? USB flash drive? Will I have to output it through my MBP? In which case, I would like to have 10bit support and therefore Kaby.
 
Absolutely, I figured that since iOS uses 8-bit 4K HEVC, Skylake could last me for the duration, till the next lake or river or maybe an Apple chipset. :p

I have one more thing, however. A 4K TV is in the order within a year, maybe. If I download 10bit 4K content to play on it, what options would I have to play that content on my TV? USB flash drive? Will I have to output it through my MBP? In which case, I would like to have 10bit support and therefore Kaby.
For TVs you're better off using stuff like media boxes IMO. And many TVs are networked so they can stream stuff like Netflix 4K HDR directly.

One problem on macOS is none of the software has hardware HEVC decoding yet AFAIK, aside from High Sierra's QuickTime.
 
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For TVs you're better off using stuff like media boxes IMO. And many TVs are networked so they can stream stuff like Netflix 4K HDR directly.

One problem on macOS is none of the software has hardware HEVC decoding yet AFAIK, aside from High Sierra's QuickTime.

The only charm with me regarding 4K and Kaby is if I buy one of those 4K Super HDR TVs which are capable of showing HEVC Main 10 content so I can then watch 4K stuff on that. However, none of any TV channels I know (in Indian airspace) broadcasts in 4K. It might take some years before 4K really picks up instead of just being upscaled. TATA Sky offers a 4K set top box, but there is NO 4K stream to the best of my knowledge. So, it might just be upscaling it.
 
The only charm with me regarding 4K and Kaby is if I buy one of those 4K Super HDR TVs which are capable of showing HEVC Main 10 content so I can then watch 4K stuff on that. However, none of any TV channels I know (in Indian airspace) broadcasts in 4K. It might take some years before 4K really picks up instead of just being upscaled. TATA Sky offers a 4K set top box, but there is NO 4K stream to the best of my knowledge. So, it might just be upscaling it.
Watch Netflix direct on the TV.

Kaby Lake laptop unnecessary.
 
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The only charm with me regarding 4K and Kaby is if I buy one of those 4K Super HDR TVs which are capable of showing HEVC Main 10 content so I can then watch 4K stuff on that. However, none of any TV channels I know (in Indian airspace) broadcasts in 4K. It might take some years before 4K really picks up instead of just being upscaled. TATA Sky offers a 4K set top box, but there is NO 4K stream to the best of my knowledge. So, it might just be upscaling it.

Xbox One S or X should be a cheaper option than a Kaby-Mac. You also get a UHD BluRay drive with it.

FWIW, most of the time i prefer not to have my Mac "tied" to my TV in order to watch something.

(Note: I remember reading about 2 different HDR standards out there, so make sure everything lines up before buying into anything. This stuff is getting way more complicated than it should be.)
 
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15"
[doublepost=1498717354][/doublepost]

Interesting... my 2016 MacBook Pro runs it perfect. No skips or stutters. Yes the 10 Bit one. To compare I ran it on my i72600K Windows 10 PC via VLC and it looked and ran terrible. I'm happy with the result, I'm sure it will be even better in High Sierra.

I'm sorry, but there is NO way your 2016 MBP with 2,9 ghz could play that video with no stutters.

I have the same machine, and also AMD 460 GPU, and it stutters like hell. I've tried VLC, IINA and MPV.
 
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I'm sorry, but there is NO way your 2016 MBP with 2,9 ghz could play that video with no stutters.

I have the same machine, and also AMD 460 GPU, and it stutters like hell. I've tried VLC, IINA and MPV.

There is one way. His machine had a little divine assistance. :)
 
I'm sorry, but there is NO way your 2016 MBP with 2,9 ghz could play that video with no stutters.

I have the same machine, and also AMD 460 GPU, and it stutters like hell. I've tried VLC, IINA and MPV.
It plays mostly fine on the 2017 4.2 GHz i7 iMac with SSD in IINA but there is some stuttering and the fan is on max with very high CPU usage. So yeah, there is no way the 10-bit 4K Sony Camp video will play perfectly on a MacBook Pro in software.

I’ll be testing my lowly 2017 MacBook Core m3 with it soon though... in High Sierra, since the Public Beta came out today.
 
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It plays mostly fine on the 2017 4.2 GHz i7 iMac with SSD in IINA but there is some stuttering and the fan is on max with very high CPU usage. So yeah, there is no way the 10-bit 4K Sony Camp video will play perfectly on a MacBook Pro in software.

I’ll be testing my lowly 2017 MacBook Core m3 with it soon though... in High Sierra, since the Public Beta came out today.

Please do that and report! Your iMac is not on High Sierra?
 
Please do that and report! Your iMac is not on High Sierra?
My Core i7 iMac went back to Apple. It was mostly quiet with my usage, but occasionally it wasn't so I decided to save some money and get a cheaper and slower Kaby Lake iMac. I returned the i7 and ordered the i5-7600 iMac with 1 TB SSD. Delivery date is July 6-10 according to Apple.

The 7700K has a 91 Watt TDP CPU. It's very fast, but it can get hot very quickly. The 7600 (non-K) is a 65 Watt TDP CPU. It runs much cooler, and therefore the fan should come on much less often.

BTW, I would never run these betas as the primary OS on these Macs. Way too buggy, according to reports.
 
I'm sorry, but there is NO way your 2016 MBP with 2,9 ghz could play that video with no stutters.

I have the same machine, and also AMD 460 GPU, and it stutters like hell. I've tried VLC, IINA and MPV.

But didn't you said it was butter smooth on windows when it forced the video to be played on the AMD GPU instead of Skylake iGPU back in February? Thank you for testing out for me back then. How are you feeling now regarding the HEVC topic on the 2016 15" MBP now? I still have the same machine as yours but is so itching because I didn't imagine Apple would release Kaby Lake MBP this early.
 
But didn't you said it was butter smooth on windows when it forced the video to be played on the AMD GPU instead of Skylake iGPU back in February? Thank you for testing out for me back then. How are you feeling now regarding the HEVC topic on the 2016 15" MBP now? I still have the same machine as yours but is so itching because I didn't imagine Apple would release Kaby Lake MBP this early.

Yes, in Windows (with MPC-HC), when forced to run on the GPU. It doesn't do that in MacOS. Hopefully some improvement in High Sierra though! :)

I've given up on playing 10 bit HEVC on my laptop now, to be honest. I've bought an Nvidia Shield TV Pro and connected that to my 4K tv. It plays all videos like a champ. HDR works fine too. No Dolby Vision though, but I'll survive :)

I agree with you though.. I ordered my 2016 model at day 1, but got it in December (I live in Sweden), so 2017 coming this soon was a bit of a surprise for me. Hang in there though! High Sierra might give us some joy :)
 
Yes, in Windows (with MPC-HC), when forced to run on the GPU. It doesn't do that in MacOS. Hopefully some improvement in High Sierra though! :)

I've given up on playing 10 bit HEVC on my laptop now, to be honest. I've bought an Nvidia Shield TV Pro and connected that to my 4K tv. It plays all videos like a champ. HDR works fine too. No Dolby Vision though, but I'll survive :)

I agree with you though.. I ordered my 2016 model at day 1, but got it in December (I live in Sweden), so 2017 coming this soon was a bit of a surprise for me. Hang in there though! High Sierra might give us some joy :)

I read somewhere on one of the threads on this forum saying that in WWDC Apple did not announce that they will support the AMD GPU running 10 bit on High Sierra but instead support software decoding on Skylake running High Sierra. It makes me uncomfortable. Meaning that High Sierra might not even attempt to run the GPU for those 4k 10 bit video files but instead uses software decoding (not even hybrid decoding supported by Skylake).

I feel you bro, buyers remorse.

Want to sell and buy the 2017 one, but I have no experience in selling.
 
I read somewhere on one of the threads on this forum saying that in WWDC Apple did not announce that they will support the AMD GPU running 10 bit on High Sierra but instead support software decoding on Skylake running High Sierra. It makes me uncomfortable. Meaning that High Sierra might not even attempt to run the GPU for those 4k 10 bit video files but instead uses software decoding (not even hybrid decoding supported by Skylake).

I feel you bro, buyers remorse.

Want to sell and buy the 2017 one, but I have no experience in selling.

Yeah, indeed. We'll see what HS has in store for us, but until then, my recommendation would be to run bootcamp Windows if you want to play these videos.
 
Yeah, indeed. We'll see what HS has in store for us, but until then, my recommendation would be to run bootcamp Windows if you want to play these videos.

No bro, I don't have any 4K content and stuff yet. And I don't plan to stream anytime soon.

But, with the thought of my machine not being future proof into 5+ years of operation (when HEVC 10 bit 4k becomes mainstream) is making my OCD perfection go super crazy. I do not want to install windows on my machine too, and as High Sierra potentially might not support off loading 4k to GPU, it is also making my OCD go crazy.

hahahaha gg to my greed back in February.
 
I'm sorry, but there is NO way your 2016 MBP with 2,9 ghz could play that video with no stutters.

I have the same machine, and also AMD 460 GPU, and it stutters like hell. I've tried VLC, IINA and MPV.

Did you make sure all your other programs were shutdown? The first time I ran it was stuttered, as I had photoshop and iMovie both open with lots of files, once I shut them it was Buttery smooth. I have no reason to make that up.
 
I posted this in the MacBook forum, but it is appropriate here too:

Tested High Sierra on my lowly dual-core 1.2 GHz Core m3 MacBook (2017 Kaby Lake).
Beautiful! Playback of high bitrate 10-bit 4K HEVC is flawless. :) CPU usage 25%.

SonyCamp10HighSierra5.jpg


SonyCamp10HighSierra2.jpg
 
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Did you make sure all your other programs were shutdown? The first time I ran it was stuttered, as I had photoshop and iMovie both open with lots of files, once I shut them it was Buttery smooth. I have no reason to make that up.

Yes, I did. No apps running. Which media player did you use?

I posted this in the MacBook forum, but it is appropriate here too:

Tested High Sierra on my lowly dual-core 1.2 GHz Core m3 MacBook (2017 Kaby Lake).
Beautiful! Playback of high bitrate 10-bit 4K HEVC is flawless. :) CPU usage 25%.

Nice one!
 
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