Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

timelessbeing

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Oct 15, 2009
447
131
I'm on the market for a used 15" Macbook Pro, in the neighborhood of 2015 to 2017. What are the stingers I should watch out for? Such as...

For example, my 2014 has the notorious and unfixable 'random shutdown' issue. There were also peeling displays.

Things I've heard of:

- keyboard recalls (jamming keys)
- exploding battery recalls
- Something about Thunderbolt charging on one side causing overheating and slowdown.

Thanks.
 
The 2016-17 models have major keyboard issues, arguably even worse than the later generation butterfly versions. Have you considered one of the $1,500 refurbished 16-inch MacBook Pros? That's a much newer system than the models you are considering, and doesn't have the butterfly keyboard issues of the previous gen.
 
How bad is the keyboard issue? Can it be fixed with compressed air or something? I heard that Apple will fix some keyboards for free.

The refurb deal sounds excellent. Where do I get that?
 
How bad is the keyboard issue?
The butterfly keyboard issue is so bad that Apple abandoned the design and instituted a broad and fairly comprehensive replacement program.

My guess is that the latter was done to minimize the impact of an eventual class action settlement.

Apple will likely have to eventually pay out millions to anyone who owned a Mac with a butterfly keyboard. Not tomorrow, not next week but probably some time about 5-7 years from today by the time this case works its way through the serpentine US legal system.

I just received my $24 settlement check from Shamrell et al. v. Apple, the class action suit related to defective power buttons on several generations of iPhones. In my case, my iPhone 4S was eligible, thus circa 2011.

That is what Apple is trying to avoid. By discontinuing its deployment Apple has already conceded that the basic butterfly keyboard design was defective despite at least one revision. The last thing Apple wants is for the butterfly keyboard class action suit to go to a jury trial because Apple will be on the hook for big bucks (plus lose goodwill).

The newly instituted AirPods Pro replacement program (due to static, etc.) is likely another attempt to minimize the eventual class action settlement.

There's a good chance I stand to receive settlement payments from Apple from both the keyboard and APP class action suits since I have owned both products. Naturally, I have no desire for such payouts when I make the original purchase.

The problem lies in Apple's propensity in misrepresenting marginal designs as product advancements and -- this is key -- stubbornly sticking with those misrepresentations for years despite a plethora of contradictory evidence.

These payouts are buried in Apple's SEC filings since they don't affect Apple's gross margins and aren't part of COGS. They are probably somewhere in SG&A.
 
Last edited:
I found a good summary on the subject here:
and here
 
How bad is the keyboard issue? Can it be fixed with compressed air or something? I heard that Apple will fix some keyboards for free.

The refurb deal sounds excellent. Where do I get that?

It's pretty bad. There is a replacement program but IIRC it only applies for 4 years from initial purchase, and it replaces it with another (defective) butterfly model. If it fails out of warranty (and it likely will), you have to pay for an entirely new top case. Whatever money you save on one of these might be completely cancelled out by the out of pocket replacement costs, the downtime, and the stress. It's a hot mess of a design that a company as powerful and as capable as Apple was unable to make reliable and eventually abandoned. Far from Apple's finest moment, it's not one I recommend spending money to be a part of.

Micro Center was selling the base 16-inch for $1,500 as a refurb. You may want to check stores near you to see if they still have stock.
 
Well thanks for the heads up guys.

Unfortunately the refurb deal is in-store only, and Microcenter is East coast USA. I live on the West coast Canada. The best deal I can get up here is $2500 for the bare bones one from Apple store.
 
What about a new 13-inch? The CPUs in them are faster than the CPUs in the MacBook Pros from the 2015-2017 timeframe. Even the base model 13-inch has a CPU that benchmarks better than the flagship CPU in the 2017 15-inch. It would not have quite the same level of graphics performance, but it would be new with a warranty, a good keyboard, and a solid CPU, and you could always add an eGPU down the road if you found yourself needing more graphics performance?

Edit - If you prefer the 15 inch form factor, in the US, there are a hand full of big companies that buy and sell Macs, and offer their own warranty service. I've never purchased from one but have read about them. In Canada, they also might have some companies that do this same sort of thing?
 
Last edited:
Nah. I don't think I could live with a 13" :)
I'll either find a good craigslist deal on a 2015, or pony up the $2500 for the 16". Or find someone to ship me the Microcenter one.
 
When i look in this tread it looks like that any mbp apple released is bad...hmm
Any other manufacturers have such issues?
 
@GumaRodak
Let me put it this way.... Despite Apple's arrogance, and obsession with form over function, I would still rather use a Mac than the raging dumpster fire that is Windows. It's still the lesser of evils. The Japanese make good stuff, but they sold Thinkpad to the Chinese.
 
  • Like
Reactions: throAU
Ok but do their expensivemodels have hardware flaws like pink edges on imacs, keyboard failures, stain gates etc..
I do understand that osx is better, but if you have machine for 3,5k€ and after 3 years your screen is pink, that sux
 
My advice would be to avoid '16 - '19 butterfly keyboard models altogether. It's just not worth the headache, especially with a used/refurb machine.

Either get a fully specced 2015 15" or one of the 2019 16" refurb models.

Or go with 2020 13" + external monitor setup if you can live with a smaller screen size and don't need dGPU.
 
  • Like
Reactions: throAU
@GumaRodak keep in mind that Macrumors is a small sample of Apple's customers, and usually those that have a problem as they're looking to find a solution or complain about their issue.

Was the keyboard issue on the 2016-early 2019 models an issue? Absolutely was and it's certainly reason enough to avoid one of those.

@timelessbeing The only place I'd buy a "refurbished" Apple device is direct from Apple. Those get the full 1 year Apple warranty, from when YOU purchase it, and are eligible for AppleCare purchase for 3 years of coverage.
 
My '18 MBP is currently with Apple, hopefully getting a new improved keyboard. I'm currently using my previous '12 rMBP which has two non functioning keys (self inflicted) but mitigated with the use of a key remap utility.
 
@hallux
Good point. Apparently Microcenter is an authorized Apple reseller. The listing says "Not On Display. Located In Apple", so it could be one of those store-in-stores. So you COULD be getting the standard Apple warranty. However the web page only states the vendor 90 days warranty. Definitely worth checking before buying.
 
I just noticed that the Microcenter one has the newer Core i9 processor and 5600 GPU. The Apple store one is i7/5300
 
I just noticed that the Microcenter one has the newer Core i9 processor and 5600 GPU. The Apple store one is i7/5300
I am not a fan of the I9 since it is still form over function, it will heat up pretty quick and maybe shorter life. I have 2015 15" as well and it works nice, but I think it will be getting dated soon and kind of hard to recommend it unless you can get it for <$900.
 
@hallux
Good point. Apparently Microcenter is an authorized Apple reseller. The listing says "Not On Display. Located In Apple", so it could be one of those store-in-stores. So you COULD be getting the standard Apple warranty. However the web page only states the vendor 90 days warranty. Definitely worth checking before buying.
The $1499 base model is sold out in many locations. The i9 5500m 1TB SSD model is $1899 and while they are actual Apple refurbs in the Apple white box, Apple has specifically precluded the sale of AppleCare on these, hence the low price. I bought the $1499 for my friend's early Christmas present but we had to buy the $149 Microcenter 3 year warranty extension that is only valid at Microcenter so shipping one to Canada will be a risk. My person experience with Apple has been outstanding so it shouldn't be an issue but one never knows.
 
The problem lies in Apple's propensity in misrepresenting marginal designs as product advancements and -- this is key -- stubbornly sticking with those misrepresentations for years despite a plethora of contradictory evidence.
Very accurate.

I had a realization a while ago, that just how many of the great qualities of Steve Jobs are woven into the fabric of Apple, one of the not so great ones is his arrogance.

On the whole, Apple is not acting maliciously. They have a meticulous and rigorous process for designing products, down to the finest details, and so when they arrive at their decisions, they believe very strongly in them. Sometimes they seem to stick to those decisions for far longer than they should, despite the public's anger and a plethora of evidence to the contrary, as you put it. That's Apple's arrogance.

Sometimes they turn out to be right, despite the public's anger. I for one don't miss the headphone jack on my iPhone, for example. Sometimes they are dead wrong.

The butterfly keyboard was a decision they were dead wrong about. And not only that, but they dug themselves deeper with further decisions to keep the flawed design for far longer than they should have. It's possibly Apple's worst design choice ever for the Mac, and certainly so since the return of Steve Jobs.

But again, it was not malicious. They were not trying to screw over their customers. Unfortunately sometimes they will have to pay a high price, with expensive recall/repair programs and litigation. That's the nature of the business.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Christopher Kim
lol nobody thinks they're being malicious. Everyone believes they're doing the right thing. But the end result is the same .... it's just not what's right for everyone else.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.