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MBP traps

mattyjoe said:
But again, it was not malicious. They were not trying to screw over their customers.
Click to expand...
K well, there's "everyone has an opinion," and then there's qualitative relativism run amok.

Every year they reenact the 07 iPhone unveil and dazzle the crowd with how vastly improved they just made the product. What happens when the product can't be vastly improved anymore? What happens as soon as the product is perfect? Do they stop trying to dazzle us?

No. Tim Cook comes on stage and says taking away your headphone jack, home button, fingerprint unlock, and adding a hideous rectangle to the top of your screen, all things that get between you and your information, is a vast improvement to what is meant to be an information access device.
 
OP:

THE WORST MAC BUYING MISTAKE OF YOUR LIFE would be to buy a 2016, 2017, 2018, or 2019 MacBook Pro 13" or MacBook Pro 15".

ALL of them have the disastrous "butterfly" keyboards, and are very likely to cause you grief as the computer ages.

Want something with the newer "scissors" keyboard (which is a lot like the 2015-and-earlier scissors keyboard that were reliable)?
Your choices:
2020 MacBook Pro 13"
or
2019 MacBook Pro 16".

If you can't afford a new 16", consider the base model from Apple's refurbished page.
If that's too much, then I'd suggest the 13" size.

BUT... as you've been warned... if you buy one of those listed above with a butterfly keyboard, you could end up very unhappy with your purchase...
 
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I've heard enough. I'm not buying a butterfly kb MBP. I don't need that kind of headache in my life.

I'm probably going to buy a low-end refurb 16" from the online Apple store today.

Fishrrman said:
Your choices:
2020 MacBook Pro 13"
or
2019 MacBook Pro 16".
Click to expand...

I believe that there was also a 16" MBP released in June 2020 with the scissor kb.
 
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timelessbeing said:
lol nobody thinks they're being malicious. Everyone believes they're doing the right thing. But the end result is the same .... it's just not what's right for everyone else.
Click to expand...

This is somewhat true. But there are plenty of instances of companies acting maliciously or unethically, with full awareness, and it's allowed to happen because of tremendous pressure from shareholders or in the interest of greed.

brianmowrey said:
K well, there's "everyone has an opinion," and then there's qualitative relativism run amok.

Every year they reenact the 07 iPhone unveil and dazzle the crowd with how vastly improved they just made the product. What happens when the product can't be vastly improved anymore? What happens as soon as the product is perfect? Do they stop trying to dazzle us?

No. Tim Cook comes on stage and says taking away your headphone jack, home button, fingerprint unlock, and adding a hideous rectangle to the top of your screen, all things that get between you and your information, is a vast improvement to what is meant to be an information access device.
Click to expand...

Product design is all qualitative relativism. Your opinion that iPhones are no longer vastly improved over previous ones is YOUR relative observation, just like it's MINE that there has been a vast improvement. I actually just went to the Apple Store to see the iPhone 12 for myself, and as I held it in my hand and played with it, it struck me as being possibly my favorite iPhone design of all time.

It's not me buying into the sales pitch from Apple. I watched the keynote, I thought it was cool. But that thought only came to me after holding it and using it myself. It's an amazing design.

But it's all relative. Some people hate it. That comes with every design humans have ever developed. Apple is simply betting that what they believe is an elegant design will be believed by a lot of the population as well, once they see it and use it. We are all free to disagree with them at anytime and not buy that product.
 
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mattyjoe said:
Your opinion that iPhones are no longer vastly improved over previous ones is YOUR relative observation, just like it's MINE that there has been a vast improvement. I actually just went to the Apple Store to see the iPhone 12 for myself, and as I held it in my hand and played with it, it struck me as being possibly my favorite iPhone design of all time.
Click to expand...
Great. Unlock it without looking at it while driving. Oh wait...
 
my brand new 2019 16" is here

It's nice and thin. Around the same weight as my 2014. The edges are a bit too sharp. It's uncomfortable on my wrists as I type this laying on the couch. I wish they were more rounded.

The kb is decent. Key pressure and travel are good. But it's a little bit rattly and loud. It could stand to be more muffled.

The force touch trackpad is pretty good too. I like that the click pressure is consistent across the entire area. Palm detection is quite good. Loudness is perfect. The click pressure is a bit stiffer than I'd like. I see that force-click pressure can be adjusted, but not the regular click. I have pretty good manual dexterity so I set pressure to light. I hope that over time the trackpad doesn't become too polished, like on previous models. I don't like the artificial click. I think that a button which physically moves still feels better. But I understand that this haptic stuff is more versatile.

FINALLY, we get a DC charging cord that can be replaced without buying a new $100 power brick. I also like that you can plug it into either side. BUT, the tradeoff is that we lost magsafe. And I miss the charging light already.

The display is nice and sharp, but the UI text is too small. I hope there's a way to make it bigger without changing resolution.

The speakers are massively improved. They have much better low end and just sound fuller and louder overall. Love it.
 
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timelessbeing said:
Things I've heard of:
- Something about Thunderbolt charging on one side causing overheating and slowdown.
Click to expand...

This is the charging issue I was thinking of
eshop.macsales.com

Power Your MacBook Pro From The Right Side USB-C Ports: Here's Why

Recent MacBook Pros have USB-C / Thunderbolt 3 ports on both sides, but you should only charge your MacBook Pro using the ports on the right side. Here's why.
eshop.macsales.com eshop.macsales.com

Kinda sucks because the right side is the most inconvenient for me.
 
timelessbeing said:
This is the charging issue I was thinking of
eshop.macsales.com

Power Your MacBook Pro From The Right Side USB-C Ports: Here's Why

Recent MacBook Pros have USB-C / Thunderbolt 3 ports on both sides, but you should only charge your MacBook Pro using the ports on the right side. Here's why.
eshop.macsales.com eshop.macsales.com

Kinda sucks because the right side is the most inconvenient for me.
Click to expand...

" - Something about Thunderbolt charging on one side causing overheating and slowdown."

That is an extreme over-exaggeration of the problem. This is not accurate at all.

Charging from the right side CAN help it run slightly cooler. In my experience, I don't actually notice a very big difference. In fact, I'm using a CalDigit TS3+ with power delivery on the left side, and my fans have been quieter than they were when I was using USB C hubs and charging with the stock power adapter on the right side.
 
I'm curious what made you decide against a sturdy 2015, in the end. But you don't have to answer
 
@brianmowrey
Mostly peace of mind. The 2015 wouldn't last me as long. Buying used gear can be a gamble. Once in a while you get burned. No warranty. As I get older, I am less willing to deal with problems, so I try to minimize and prevent headaches. One would hope that Apple learns from past mistakes (esp power & heat related) and makes design improvements in their new stuff. This 2019 has been out for a year now, so the major issues should be mostly known by now.

I did end up spending more than I'd like but still manageable. I got a sensible deal from Costco which includes Applecare and a good return policy. I should see performance improvements in my photo and video editing from the 6 core cpu and dedicated gpu.

My old 2014 still has some value ($510 trade-in according to Apple quote) so maybe I can use that to get a phone, tablet or something.
 
timelessbeing said:
246 pages

MacBook 16-inch Fan Noise - Apple Community

discussions.apple.com discussions.apple.com
Click to expand...

Take with a grain of salt. YMMV. In my own personal experience, spending a lot of time reading about other users' woes online can make you imagine or over obsess about problems with your own machine.

I have the 16inch, and fan noise has never been a problem for me, nor have I ever had the high kernel task CPU usage. The latter often occurs when manually adjusting the fan curve with Macs Fan Control or other utilities.
 
@mattyjoe
Don't worry I have a healthy sense of skepticism. I don't obsess over hearsay or look for problems that aren't there. I will judge for myself if the computer suits me. I just share things that I come across and try to get different points of view about them.
 
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