So...better to go for the iGPU even if I have to do 3d modelling and video editing? I don't have computer right know, so I need one to work. Putting the same processor and 512GB is almost the same price than the one with dGPU...
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MBP W/ M370X
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So...better to go for the iGPU even if I have to do 3d modelling and video editing? I don't have computer right know, so I need one to work. Putting the same processor and 512GB is almost the same price than the one with dGPU...
Ok good I'll add that to my case number; I wasn't aware of a way to test OSX for throttling, thanks for the info.
I've got an open case with engineering about this issue and I'm waiting on an official response. My hope is that an EFI update will correct the heavy throttling.
However as you stated if it is throttling due to power there is no fix and I have folks like you to thank for my free upgrade to Skylake
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Unfortunately you'd want the dGPU and the ATI version no less. If you need it now and it MUST an Apple just be prepared to deal with the issues listed.
If it can't be fixed you'll get a free full replacement to skylake just be sure to buy AppleCare before that first year is out
I'm currently waiting for Skylake to roll out.
Hoping the iGPU is powerful enough so that I won't have to consider a dGPU.
If you want to do proper 3D work, I advice you wait for a refresh if you can.
If they update the dGPU to something decent, get that. If not, hopefully Skylake has enough power.
But if certain rumors are to be believed, we might not see 15" Skylake models before the second half of 2016.
So if you need a machine now, man.
I don't know.
I mean the M370X is much better than the integrated GPU, problem is that it doesn't deliver constant, stable performance.
-you get regular, highly frustrating dips in performance.
As long as it only throttles down from 800 MHz to 675 MHz you're probably fine.
But once things really heat up it throttles down to 300MHz and things really turn sour.
But again, it's better that the iGPU.
So, hard call.
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I actually contacted Apple about it.
I emailed mr. Cook directly and a week later a service rep called me.
Sadly they had very little understanding for the issue.
In the end they concluded it was "intended and expected behaviour" for the computer and we parted ways.
Dismayed, I wrote mr. Cook again to explain in detail the problem. And a couple of days later I was again contacted by Apple.
This time they wondered if I was willing to send them my computer so they could look at it, in return I got a new computer.
-which I sold, brand new in box.
Hopefully those who have this computer get a fix down the line. I desperately hope so, because as it stands this is a sad state of affairs.
I'm currently waiting for Skylake to roll out.
Hoping the iGPU is powerful enough so that I won't have to consider a dGPU.
If you want to do proper 3D work, I advice you wait for a refresh if you can.
If they update the dGPU to something decent, get that. If not, hopefully Skylake has enough power.
But if certain rumors are to be believed, we might not see 15" Skylake models before the second half of 2016.
So if you need a machine now, man.
I don't know.
I mean the M370X is much better than the integrated GPU, problem is that it doesn't deliver constant, stable performance.
-you get regular, highly frustrating dips in performance.
As long as it only throttles down from 800 MHz to 675 MHz you're probably fine.
But once things really heat up it throttles down to 300MHz and things really turn sour.
But again, it's better that the iGPU.
So, hard call.
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I actually contacted Apple about it.
I emailed mr. Cook directly and a week later a service rep called me.
Sadly they had very little understanding for the issue.
In the end they concluded it was "intended and expected behaviour" for the computer and we parted ways.
Dismayed, I wrote mr. Cook again to explain in detail the problem. And a couple of days later I was again contacted by Apple.
This time they wondered if I was willing to send them my computer so they could look at it, in return I got a new computer.
-which I sold, brand new in box.
Hopefully those who have this computer get a fix down the line. I desperately hope so, because as it stands this is a sad state of affairs.
So it sounds like you got a full replacement. In my case I'm willing to deal with this until September and get the updated one as a replacement. Hopefully I'll get somewhere
Lets say that I buy the machine and Apple Care and it fails:
It has to be something that they admit that is a problem to get a replacement for a Skylake machine. If that is the case, the new machine value, is the same I spent on the faulty one?
Bought mine on release week and I'm using it daily for work archicad 3d modelling and 3d rendering. Also occasional gaming in windows with bootcamp. Haven't had a single problem with my machine, except it getting a bit hotter when playing a game for extended period of time. I think people who buy computers for work and don't expect them to perform as high end gaming devices are happy with theirs and aren't complaining on these forums as they don't encounter all these problems you read here. Pretty sure all these horror stories you can read on these forums are under 1% of total users who are using bmp with dgpu.
my 2 cents, if you need a machine for work go and get it, you will make enough money while using it before a new one comes out, to be able to sell current and buy new one if you wish to do so.
my 2 cents, if you need a machine for work go and get it, you will make enough money while using it before a new one comes out, to be able to sell current and buy new one if you wish to do so.
I've got this machine, run it hard and it's been nothing but great. That's been with heavy After Effects, Davinci Resolve, Premiere Pro/sharpen filter/FilmConvert/RAW video use.
It's awesome, and I can't imagine using just the integrated graphics that are sure to come with the next Macbook Pro. Wanted to buy this version before they stripped out the discrete gfx/ports/ etc. just to make it a micron thinner
That said, wait a month until the new ones are announced, then buy this model for 300 bucks less!
It's awesome, and I can't imagine using just the integrated graphics that are sure to come with the next Macbook Pro. Wanted to buy this version before they stripped out the discrete gfx/ports/ etc. just to make it a micron thinner
That said, wait a month until the new ones are announced, then buy this model for 300 bucks less!
The terms of warranty say like for like irregardless of cost. So if you chose the route I am and it cannot be repaired and you force Apple to replace it you'd get a 15" MBP with a dGPU. If an exact unit either cannot be found or has been deemed unsatisfactory you will get whatever current generation is available.
Example you purchased a mid 2012 and bought Apple care. Because this unit was part of the repair extension if by early 2015 just prior to the warranty's end if the unit fails and cannot be repaired you'd get a new early 2015 like the one I have now.
I have enough documented evidence and enough unsuccessful repairs (4x) that come September once the late-'16s arrive Apple has agreed to replace it fully with one from that generation.
Now I'd lose some of my Apple coverage and I'd have to repurchase it for the new unit however losing $1-200 is a hell of a lot cheaper than $1200 if I sold it and repurchased.
Here essentially are the facts:
#1 The unit does throttle and it is especially bad when using an external display and extended use with this configuration can cause the performance drop anywhere from 1/3 to 1/2 (i.e. 625mhz-400mhz instead of 800)
#2 Throttling on the internal display is no where near as bad and can be argued as being negligent (725 when near 90C)
#3 The "Skylake" MBP will likely use AMD's Polaris chipset which is an enormous update. Demos at IDC showed it on par with the 970M at half the power. Polaris would be almost 2x as good as the current GPU and will likely be on a redesigned chassis that uses a 100W USB-C brick for charging (up from 85W)
#4 The "Skylake" MBP will launch no sooner than September along side the IPhone 7. I wish it'd come sooner but The chips simply won't be in production until July/August at the earliest.
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Stop spreading FUD. Mine doesn't throttle. I get consistent benchmark and FPS scores in games. Yes, the card doesn't like high temperatures, so a cooling pad helps. But nothing there that can be qualified as 'excessive throttling'.
Some people have had problems, have you???!
If it's working fine for you as it is for millions of others then just don't worry about it.
If you are having problems take it back to Apple and get it checked out then make a decision.
Are you using an external monitor? If not that's likely why. I've spent quite a bit of time working to fix this issue with Apple and I can tell you most likely it is and you aren't noticing. I've had 4 different logic boards and all of them throttled. I too use a cooling pad and it makes no difference.
I'm happy to show my logs as proof.
The issue with the throttling appears to be that the EFI isn't properly detecting what is a 3D application and what isn't. If you're exclusively using steam that's likely why. I haven't seen this behavior using steam however other applications including futuremark do indeed throttle
Just because someone has a different experience to you doesn't make their opinion or experience any less valid or yours any less dogmatic maybe get over yourself a little eh....
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The poster clearly has a laptop that works fine for them why would they want to create problems where they don't have any????
Throttling is clearly happening and that's due to the dGPU they used it was a design choice they made and having 4 different ones is not going to change that, the definition of stupid is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome. The current MacBook Pro with dGPU is clearly not for you, never mind, buy something else....
The issue is that Apple wants to sweep this under the rug and say it's a select number of users. I too was in this camp until I started using non-steam applications and immediately saw issues. By putting folks like us on the margins saying its a rare occurance doesn't do anyone any favors nor does it get fixed.
At some point you will find an application that shows this behavior and you'll be just as pissed as the rest of us so please try and be understanding.
It is a real problem and sooner or later it will happen to you as it's clearly a bug within EFI that needs fixing for all of our units including yours
Not really me with the understanding issues..... That's you guys who seem incapable of understanding that for most people the computer works just fine and does all they want to do.
If that is not the case for you return it for refund and get something else, what's not understanding about that???
I understand that the throttling is an issue for your use case, I also understand that you are in the minority, I further understand that you having the wrong tools for the job is a bad thing and that your best option is a different machine. Finally I understand that you just want to bitch and moan rather than just put it down to experience and get on with life as any sensible person would do, that is of course your prerogative and you can use these boards to do it but you really have to accept criticism of it as that is the point of forums.
Returning to the OP, the poster has no issues with the computer but many people are suggesting that they get rid of it because of problems they have, not the OP, does that seem sensible advice to you??? It's like me saying my car broke down so everyone with a 1 series BMW should sell theirs as quickly as possible to avoid the same thing.....
Now if you were suggesting to someone looking at buying a 15 inch rMBP, that they may experience throttling issues, provide the information, and recommend that they wait for the next version in order to avoid them then fair enough. But recommending that someone sell something they have no personal problem with is a bit much just because you are pissed off that the computer was not what you needed.
I'd love to have a MBP with a Polaris 10 and some stacked VRAM
Ok, I might have misunderstood the dimension of the problem. I thought that people (like our manner-lacking chap Ovedius here) argue that the cooling system is unable to support the GPU and so that it throttles under normal operation. Now, I'd say that — most — laptops throttle if you really go out of your way to load them up, but that doesn't have much to do with real-world operation. I didn't see any evidence of any severe throttling of GPU either under OS X nor in Windows (I did notice that the GPU prefers cooler temps, so there is some sort of firmware limiter in play). I also didn't observe any throttling with my own Metal and OpenGL code. The throttling that you speak of is interesting. Sorry that I missed it. Could you pm me a link to your testing methodology so I can check it on my machine?
Nice try, but no
Honestly I don't mind and it's not so much bitching about it but rather trying to get a fix. I honestly do love the laptop and had it not been for my good friend's desire to play blade and soul I wouldn't be having these kinds of problems as steam was trouble free. But that said since I am and especially now that I'm using an external monitor we do deserve to have a fully functioning laptop.
I do think this is 100% fixable with an EFI or driver update and I managed to get the Kernel Panics fixed from 10.11.2 so I'm confident the folks I've been working with at Apple should fix this as well.
I'd love to have a MBP with a Polaris 10 and some stacked VRAM
Ok, I might have misunderstood the dimension of the problem. I thought that people (like our manner-lacking chap Ovedius here) argue that the cooling system is unable to support the GPU and so that it throttles under normal operation. Now, I'd say that — most — laptops throttle if you really go out of your way to load them up, but that doesn't have much to do with real-world operation. I didn't see any evidence of any severe throttling of GPU either under OS X nor in Windows (I did notice that the GPU prefers cooler temps, so there is some sort of firmware limiter in play). I also didn't observe any throttling with my own Metal and OpenGL code. The throttling that you speak of is interesting. Sorry that I missed it. Could you pm me a link to your testing methodology so I can check it on my machine?
Nice try, but no
It's not the cooling that much I can guarantee you. Now granted I did have cooling issues with one of my logic boards and quite comically it melted the keyboard but that was a one-off issue as my current one runs about mid 70C* after being re-pasted by the service rep here locally. If it is hardware related it would be some kind of power limitation which is something I've also brought up with Apple. This Laptop really needs a 120W brick not the 85W one we have which is why the apple m370x is clocked at 800mhz instead of the usual 1.1ghz. After I submitted my safety incident report the impression I got was that they were not interested in addressing the issue because future models would be charged in a different manor (like USB-C 100W charger)
As for the throttling Ive been testing it over the last couple days and the easiest way for me to reproduce the issue is with an external monitor. I have not yet been able to duplicate the issue with the internal display. As for how I am testing it I am in bootcamp using both GPUz for logging and monitoring in addition to MSI afterburner. I sent apple a couple hours of logs both using the internal display and external showing the difference in behavior and I'm waiting back on an answer from them. The logs are on another partition and given how easy it is to reproduce I won't post those here but I will the screenshots from MSI afterburner and GPUz
If you look at the pictures you'll see both the clock and GPU voltage shifting as if it was overheating but by comparison the current GPU temperature is in no danger whatsoever
Normal clock speed is 850 / 1125 but as you can see that changes anywhere from 400 to 625 on full load
[doublepost=1454947100][/doublepost]Also I'd like to add that I think OP should roll the dice.
Best case: Apple patches the issue with EFI update
Worst case: He bitches to Apple and gets a free full replacement to Skylake at the end of the year
The issues with the laptop are legit and annoying but I believe barring some power issue are totally fixable. If it's not then I'll be first in line for a replacement which I secretly hope happens lol
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Is It truly unreasonable to ask for stable, powerful performance from a computer as expensive as a 15" MacBook Pro?
No.
One does not buy a computer like this and accept that it limps through anything more demanding than the most basic of tasks.
One does not buy this computer to apply half arsed "fixes" to a glaring fault like this.
Accept only premium performance from a premium price tag.
Don't buy this crap.
No.
One does not buy a computer like this and accept that it limps through anything more demanding than the most basic of tasks.
One does not buy this computer to apply half arsed "fixes" to a glaring fault like this.
Accept only premium performance from a premium price tag.
Don't buy this crap.
I completely agree but to be fair this is likely a bug within EFI and should be very fixable. There's a precident for this kind of thing happening both with Apple and other vendors so I'm not too worried about it.
I am more concerned about how hot the brick gets and there is a possibility it is power related and if true then everyone deserves a full replacement to the revised version. We'll know soon enough
That's the thing.
It doesn't get hot.
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Apple-MacBook-Pro-Retina-15-Mid-2015-Review.144402.0.html
"...seem to be caused by thermal throttling when the core temperature reaches around 74 °C (~165 °F)."
"The 85-watt power adaptor is hardly adequate and limits the consumption to around 90 watts – which means that the MacBook cannot maintain the maximum clock for the CPU and the GPU simultaneously even when the temperatures are very low. However, the temperature development will result in throttling after a couple of minutes anyway..."
Listen, all I want is that people don't waste their money on a lacklustre premium product.
This isn't exactly pocket change.
... No, really, disabling PowerPlay does stop throttling. Yeah, could definitely screw your warranty. But it definitely fixes the issue. I tested it for ages.
And to the person a few posts back who said it didn't fix it - you have to disable PowerPlay, and then you have to change the clock speed slightly. I set mine to 810. I believe there's one other setting too. I wrote a post about it because I was searching for a solution for a year. PM me if you can't get it working.
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