MBPr Very hot magsafe, and hot in general

Discussion in 'MacBook Pro' started by Sound Evolution, Mar 23, 2013.

  1. Sound Evolution macrumors 6502

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    #1
    Maybe it is coincidence but I have the feeling since the last SMC update my computer is getting insanely hot. (it is the 2.7Ghz. Version).

    With only Safari open the CPU temp is almost never lower then 74 degrees Celsius and goes even up above 80 degrees Celsius. The Graphics are also around 64-70 degrees Celsius all the time. When I do more intensive stuff (as simple as importing pictures) the temparature rise quickly and sometimes even over 100 degrees Celsius.

    The most frightening thing is, the Magsafe connector get really hot, sometimes to hot to touch. Also the array around the Magsafe on the bottom get very hot.

    Asides from this, I have regularly with starting up that I get a flashing globe. And time machine backups are relatively huge every hour despite I don't change anything.

    Anyone any clue?

    With kind regards,
    Bas
     
  2. snaky69 macrumors 603

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    #2
    Reset the SMC and report back.
    http://support.apple.com/kb/HT3964?viewlocale=en_US&locale=en_US
     
  3. Sound Evolution thread starter macrumors 6502

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    #3
    Thank you.

    I did the SMC reset, doesn't really make a difference.
     

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  4. justperry macrumors 604

    justperry

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    #4
    Open Activity Monitor, Click on the Tab to show ALL processes, then click on the CPU tab and make a screenshot, post here.
     
  5. Sound Evolution thread starter macrumors 6502

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    #5
    Thanks,

    As you can see, there is no heavy load at all. Despite of that the temperature goes sky-high. Once I do my work on my MBP (CAD-Design, rendering) it get intensely hot.
     

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  6. alex4040 macrumors newbie

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    #6
  7. snaky69 macrumors 603

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    #7
    That is rather weird, though I must say temps rise very quickly even with 7-10% load across all cores. If the computer is on a cold boot with nothing open, what kind of idle temperatures are you seeing?
     
  8. Redsand187 macrumors member

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    Central Washington State
    #8
    I'm having a similar problem with my 15" 2011 MBP. I've had countless block style magsafes short out and one L shape stop working over my years of mac ownership. But this has gotten so hot that cable is actually scorched looking, although it still works. It does get super hot at times.
     
  9. Cergman macrumors 6502a

    Cergman

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    #9
    Picture? You should probably take those cables into Apple to get them looked at. Is your computer still under warranty? If it is, then book a genius bar appointment, and see if it's the computer's fault.
     
  10. Redsand187 macrumors member

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    Central Washington State
    #10
    Not under warranty any more, I typically don't keep a laptop for much more then 12 months and AppleCare didn't help me the one time they should have, so I haven't bought it for a while. Although I'm in my final months of AppleCare on my iMac and I need to bring that in for display/graphics card issues.

    I'm just a couple hours from a local Apple Store, so it's not easy to get there.
    [​IMG]
     
  11. Sound Evolution thread starter macrumors 6502

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    #11
    When I open my computer in the morning, after a whole night of no use Temp start idle with 46 degrees Celsius in a relative cold room. After a few minutes of use with just mail and a bit browsing temp rise very quickly to at least 60 degrees Celcius to get even hotter over time.

    Here i have a log hystorie of my temperature. Average is around 79/80 degrees Celcius with a small peak when I seriously use my computer.

    I don't like this. The bottom case is almost to hot to touch, also the array above the keys. And yes on top especially with charging from empty state, the Magsafe get way to hot.
     

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  12. Sound Evolution thread starter macrumors 6502

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    #12
    As follow up. I noticed my macbook never switch back to the internal graphics anymore. Even with light tasks like browsing, it is now always on the discrete graphics. Does this has anything to do with the extreme heat?
     
  13. gr8tfly macrumors 603

    gr8tfly

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    #13
    Same machine. Here are tests I ran with all cores at 100%.

    Using Hardware Monitor to read sensors. I did not have it configured to measure CPU core temps.

    If you are anywhere near these, something else it using resources. If you're not seeing it in Activity Monitor, you might need to look through system.log.

    I would suggest doing a clean install on another partition or drive and see if you get the same results.

    My test results below. Running "yes" might have slightly different results as there is no graphics rendering involved:

    I ran 8 games of Chess; computer v computer, 256 moves ahead (just for extra measure?).

    Verified 100% core activity for all 8.

    Fans at max of:
    ~5928 RPM Left
    ~5496 RPM Right

    Ambient temp 66º F / 18.8º C

    Nvidia Discrete Only (Auto GPU switching disabled)

    CPU A Proximity
    peak 153º F / 67.2º C
    ~ stable 151º F / 66.1º C

    GPU Temp Diode
    peak 172º F / 77.8º C
    ~ stable 165º F / 73.9º C

    main heatsink 2
    peak 120º F / 48.9º C
    ~ stable 120º F / 48.9º C

    main heatsink 3
    peak 131º F / 55º C
    ~ stable 127º F / 52.8º C
     
  14. Sound Evolution thread starter macrumors 6502

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    #14
    Thank you for posting. Wow that is significant cooler then mine. And the thing is mine standard around 70+ degrees Celsius with less then 1% CPU load. Just browsing. Where to look for in the log?
     
  15. Aragorn234 macrumors member

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    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    #15
    Just a quick word.
    Have a read of this thread.
    It talks about performance but turns to temps on the machine.
    http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1562190

    Sorry not yet finished.
    I was having EXACTLY your issues, and it is now in for repairs.

    Check your FANS are working (one of mine was not). Once the fan did start working it was still getting really hot (topping out at 105 C).

    Get it checked I say by either Apple or an Authorised Repairer
     
  16. gr8tfly macrumors 603

    gr8tfly

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    #16
    I can't think of specifics, except perhaps errors and warnings that are excessive and perhaps unrelated to apps you are running.

    What are you reporting for the same sensor as I'm using (CPU A proximity)?
    (edit: never mind - I see it in your previous post)

    Try starting up in safe mode (hold down 'shift' on startup until you see a progress bar below the Apple logo).

    I still would try and startup on a clean install of ML on a separate partition or drive.

    Also, as someone else mentioned, make sure you are seeing RPM reported for both fans.
     
  17. kittencounter macrumors member

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    Mar 22, 2013
    #17
    Nvidia Discrete Only (Auto GPU switching disabled)

    I say this is the reason.
     
  18. Queen6 macrumors 603

    Queen6

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    #18
    If not already install gfxCardStatus (2.3) this will give you an element of control, however more importantly in your case it will reveal the "dependencies" i.e. exactly what is keeping the Nvidia GPU on. The CPU usage that your posting is not representative of the temperatures, so I rather suspect that something is driving the GPU, or the cooling system is at fault. You may be surprised as what apps can trigger the discrete GPU, one for me was a VPN helper thx to a fancy graphic a mail to the dev team fixed that one. VLC is another culprit it will switch to the Nvidia GPU on start up, yet Movist stays with the Intel GPU, admittedly at very high bit rates VLC provide far smoother playback.

    Once the discrete GPU fires up temperatures can rise rapidly and the system can struggle to cope depending on the placement of the machine. I have been able to push my own Retina well into three figures C during testing. Typically i don't see more than 85C now i have it set up.

    UltraFan will give you control over the cooling of the machine, also SMC Fan Control as this will give fan RPMs. I recommend both for reducing temp.

    ----------

    If you are concerned about temperature and want to reduce it elevation of the rear of the machine helps, as sitting flat on the desk only reflects the heat back to the base of the Mac. You can buy passive aluminium coolers like Rain Designs Mstand or iLap. Most powered coolers are designed for PC notebooks and don't work overly well with Mac`s if at all. One cooler that does work efficiently is the Moshi Zefyr 2, as it`s principle of cooling is specifically designed for Apple portables, by blowing the air horizontally across the base of the computer, however don't expect miracles.
    [​IMG][​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Link: Moshi Zefyr 2
    A cheap USB fan can achieve the same if strategically placed, not as elegant mind, nor as easy to put in your notebooks case :p but they do help to reduce case temperatures.

    You can use software to override Apple`s own cooling algorithm by manually taking control of fan RPM and setting up power profile presets with SMC Fan Control 2.4, or here with UltraFan which allows you stipulate a preset temperature and the software will automatically raise and lower fan RPM`s to keep the system at the predefined temp, which i personally feel is a far more elegant solution. At the end of the day you want to control your system temperature, not your fan rpm`s. For me SMC is now pretty much redundant with the latest release of UltraFan having manual control of the fans RPM, and subsequently i am starting to uninstall it from my own Mac`s. SMC FC is a great app, however although it`s recently updated, functionality is limited compared to some newer apps, equally SMC Fan Control is rock steady stable and a finished product.

    Strictly speaking Apple`s own cooling algorithm works, albeit at sacrifice of increased temps for quieter operation. This has always been the Apple way and is really nothing detrimental to the system, i have one MBP from 2008 all original barring a recent fan change that has an uptime of over 35K hours. The latest MBP`s need less assistance in remaining cool; for some it`s simply disconcerting the heat generated and transferred to the case, although it`s perfectly normal as the aluminium acts as a heat-sync. i have to deal with elevated ambient temperature so at times a software solution is useful. Apart from the passive cooling the Mstands bring they also offer a very sound ergonomic solution. A passive cooler and UltraFan will maximise the cooling, there is little else you can do short of reducing the ambient temperature or the system load. If I know i am going to push a system i will close all apps that are not essential as this can and does make an impact to system temperature.

    High temperatures in general is not overly harmful to your systems, what is far more detrimental is thermal stress, where temperatures rapidly fluctuate by significant margins over a short period of time. Anyone striving for great longevity should look to minimise rapid temperature changes, here UltraFan is your best friend.

    Using a RainDesign Mstand, a Moshi Zefyr 2 and latest version of UltraFan I can reduce temperature by over 20C when transcoding an MKV video file, and that is something worth thinking about;

    • Apple default cooling algorithm 99C - 103C (still on Mstand) fans 4K and escalating :eek:
    • Mstand, Zefyr & UltraFan 79C - 82C fans at 5.8K :cool:

    Recently i have been experimenting with a CoolerMaster Notrepal E1 cooling pad, it has a single very large fan 23CM (9") running at 800 rpm, and most importantly moving a significant 91.25 CFM, this is far more than most other powered coolers i have tried.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    The fan by far takes up the majority of the coolers body, runs slow and quiet.

    As it`s designed for a PC portable i didn't have any high expectations; the cooler runs quiet as in silent, perfect size for a 15" MBP, has USB expansion, single speed with on/off button and lifts the machine a good couple of inch`s of the desk. I chose my Late 2011 2.4 i7 15" MBP, it`s connected to an external display, runs 24/7 and is generally north of 70C (158F) on any given day. Any software solution only results in the MBP doing a fair impression of a "Turbojet" which we all love to loath, as workloads rise and temperatures increase.

    The important part cooling; well as ever with a Mac a mixed bag, the elevation definitely helps versus being flat on the desk. I have little expectation of any cooler reducing a Mac`s internal temperature significantly, what the Notepal E1 was able to do was systematically reduce fan rpm by a good 1K without any increase in internal temperatures, which is a big step forward. With this cooler and a software solution (UltraFan/SMC Fan Control) it`s possible to have a moderate load and a relatively quiet system, and that counts for a lot. The major downside to the Notepal E1 is the size, it`s clearly designed to be "planted" on the desk. when using the 10 degree angle i use a piece of that rubber you can buy for car dashboards, just to ensure the MBP doesn't slip and slide about, just seems prudent with such an expensive notebook perched on the edge of the desk. The Notepal E1 also unusually blows a stream of cool air out of the front to cool the hands which is well unusual, nevertheless not unpleasant on a hot day.

    I still rate the Moshi Zefyr 2 as the best powered cooler for a Mac portable simply due to it`s continuous horizontal air flow, however the pricing and availability make it a tough choice. 1K reduction in fan speed may not sound that big a deal, however if that keeps the Mac below the "Turbojet' threshold then it`s a worthwhile investment for anyone seeking the quieter life :p

    The old adage still applies; it`s easier to keep a system cool, than cool-down an already hot machine. This being said it`s not strictly necessary, equally it`s nice to know that there are options for reducing temperature out there.
     
  19. Sound Evolution thread starter macrumors 6502

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    #19
    Thanks for the responses. Highly appreciated.

    A follow up.

    You where right. It has all to do with the graphics. I must admit, I seldom shut my system down. So yesterday I decided to make a restart. And after booting up it was back on the Intel HD4000 internal graphics. It makes a day and night difference and my average CPU temp is now around 52 degrees, which is very acceptable.

    Now I have to find out what triggers my system to switch to the discrete graphics. My feeling says there is still sort of a bug in the SMC firmware, because once it switch to discrete graphics it doesn't return anymore to the HD4000 internal.

    My gut feeling tells me that the rMBP is to thin and to compact for the very hot Discrete graphics....
     
  20. Sound Evolution thread starter macrumors 6502

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    #20
    Ok, once it is triggerd to switch to GT M650 card, it won't ever return anymore to the HD4000. Only a restart make this happen. Even if I close al app's and look just at my desktop. Once it is on GT 650, it doesn't go back to the HD4000 graphics. That pretty suck, because of the intense heat and my battery get drained like insane. I am confident now the fault of my heating problems lies in the graphic (or lack off) switching.

    Is this a hardware defect or a next firmware update will fix this?
     
  21. gr8tfly, Apr 4, 2013
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2013

    gr8tfly macrumors 603

    gr8tfly

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    #21
    I suspect it's some piece of software leaving a background process running that has enabled the Nvidia. Also, just having the Nvidia enabled shouldn't generate a lot of heat. It idles just a bit warmer than the HD 4000. System temps shouldn't rise much, unless the discrete is under load. You can confirm this by restarting (which you say will allow the system to use the HD 4000), then manually enabling the Nvidia (by disabling auto GPU switching in System Preferences > Energy Saver) and checking your temps.

    Set the system back to auto GPU switching (and verify it's back to the HD 4000), then try the following to see if perhaps there is indeed a process left running:

    Take a look at your list of processes using Activity Monitor (All Processes selected) prior to launching the app that enables the discrete. Launch the app and verify the discrete is enabled. Then quit the app and check Activity monitor again. I suspect the app will leave something behind.

    If the app behaves properly, you should see two display switch events in system.log (changing the GPU to/from the discrete). (To view system.log, use Console, then select system.log from the left hand list.)

    These are excerpts from my system.log.
    When switching to the Nvidia discrete:
    Code:
    Apr  4 18:40:55 xxxxxx.local WindowServer[122]: Received display connect changed for display 0x42803c0
    
    Then, when the app is terminated, the display is again connected to the HD 4000:
    Code:
    Apr  4 18:42:15 xxxxxx.local WindowServer[122]: Received display connect changed for display 0x42803c0
    
    (same thing, just showing the two events will show up in the system.log)​

    I'm not sure which software you are using to check on the GPU, but you can also look at the System Profiler report ("opt" click on :apple: menu, select System Information, then Graphics/Displays. Click on video "card" - the one in use will show as being connected to Color LCD display.

    I can confirm the rMBP with current OS and firmware update (MacBookPro Retina SMC Update 1.1, Mar. 14) will indeed switch back to the integrated after having enabled the discrete. I confirmed it with several apps today - for instance: the included Chess app will enable the discrete. When it's terminated, the discrete is disabled.

    I also launched several astronomy apps which will enable the Nvidia. When they are terminated, it is again disabled (Redshift, Starry Night).

    It's just coincidence I was looking at this today, as the app I use (Hardware Monitor) had an update which will keep a disconnected sensor displayed ("----"). This let me both monitor the discrete's temperature and also tell when it was disabled.
     
  22. DiscardedPacket macrumors member

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    Mar 8, 2013
    #22
    I've noticed that with the UI performance increase in 10.8.3, the GPU is also pushed a lot harder, and I notice its temperature normally runs at around 68-70c when working from the retina display.

    I guess if they push the GPU harder to get better UI performance, its going to run hotter.
     
  23. Sound Evolution thread starter macrumors 6502

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    #23
    Found it! It was VLC. Thank you very much for your help. I followed your instructions.

    It turned out VLC as soon as open, no matter if you play a movie or not, activates the Nvidia right away. The difference in heat is about 15 degrees Celcius. Not thinking about anything, VLC was often left open, caused my computer to heat up significantly.

    There is still the problem left with the Magsafe connector that get very hot, but I guess that is a contact problem, and I will contact Apple about that for a new charger.

    I used the Istat temperature monitor app. It shows under the "CPU" icon on the desktop bar which videocard is currently being used. Also it allows you to manually speed up your fan's. A very nice app I can highly recommend to everyone.

    Last question. Why my computer use so much memory in idle? Nearly 5GB. with all apps close.

    Thanks all for your help.
     
  24. justperry macrumors 604

    justperry

    Joined:
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    #24
    1. Clean the MagSafe connector with alcohol, might help.

    2. You say it uses 5 Gb on Login, what does it consume if you hold the shift right after login?
    Shift prevents any Login Items from loading, when you hit the enter button upon login instantly hit Shift.
     
  25. gr8tfly macrumors 603

    gr8tfly

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    #25
    Glad that helped!

    When you are looking at memory usage, be sure to include inactive along with free, as it's available for allocation should a current or new app require it. It's flagged as inactive, as it still can be used to access recent data. Here's an Apple KB article that talks about the different types of allocation: http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1342?viewlocale=en_US&locale=en_US
     

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