MCE Optibay Alternative CHEAP

[DoFoT9]

OCZ has a full range of drives based on Samsung, Indilinx, and Sandforce controllers. Some are better than others, of course, but your statement is not the whole truth.

i was not aware of that! thankyou very much for correcting me!

i only said what i said because i recently read an article from annandtech stating that OCZ use all samsung components - so yea.. i trusted them!

 

[orthorim]

Ok, so after posting that I read the ENTIRE thread. That was fun! From what I gather, the reason to put the SSD in the stock position is to allow hibernation to work. As I assumed before though, this setup will then take away the SMS protection from the HDD.

My question is, what is more important? SMS or Hybernation? That would seem to help make the decision of what to put where.

I put the SSD in the optibay because of the SMS argument. Didn't know about the hibernation issue though. If I did it again, I'd put the SSD in the stock position.

I don't use hibernation that often but it's a pain in the behind to have to think about not draining the battery fully. Hard drives worked fine before SMS and I have a backup so I'd rather forego that. In addition, my hard drive isn't accessed very frequently - most of the time it's sleeping. It would be a bit of a freak accident if I managed to drop the laptop while watching a movie...

 

[Heilage]

OCZ.. hmmm... not a fan of them, as they are made by samsung. baadd things ive heard from them.

I'm a big fan, I have two of their SSD drives. Look, drives fail. It happens. This is why you have to remember to back up your stuff. A drive failing has nothing to do about who makes it or what kind it is. Drives are the most fragile component in any computer.

Their SSDs are very good, or at least the ones I've had (Vertex 30 and 60GB). Although the garbage collection (FW-level TRIM) was implemented a bit late, they seem to have solved many issues regarding the weaknesses of MLC SSDs.

Of course, people like different manufacturers. I for one stick to Samsung when it comes to regular hard drives. I have had several of them and they have all been good.

 

[paintballswimgu]

has anyone tried this one yet?

http://www.powerbookmedic.com/DualDrive-500GB----Add-a-Second-Hard-Drive-to-your-Laptop-p-17257.html

 

[DoFoT9]

I'm a big fan, I have two of their SSD drives. Look, drives fail. It happens. This is why you have to remember to back up your stuff. A drive failing has nothing to do about who makes it or what kind it is. Drives are the most fragile component in any computer.

Their SSDs are very good, or at least the ones I've had (Vertex 30 and 60GB). Although the garbage collection (FW-level TRIM) was implemented a bit late, they seem to have solved many issues regarding the weaknesses of MLC SSDs.

Of course, people like different manufacturers. I for one stick to Samsung when it comes to regular hard drives. I have had several of them and they have all been good.

good on you for sticking with a brand! i love it when somebody is passionate about something

but i must point out this article from anandtech, you seem pretty technically minded - so hopefully you will understand.

idk what to think of it really, they seem to be addressing the problems - but you arent certain to get a good drive.

mechanical HDDs for me still. $ $

 

[Heilage]

good on you for sticking with a brand! i love it when somebody is passionate about something

but i must point out this article from anandtech, you seem pretty technically minded - so hopefully you will understand.

idk what to think of it really, they seem to be addressing the problems - but you arent certain to get a good drive.

mechanical HDDs for me still. $ $

Ah, the Samsungs. Well, it all relates to whichever model, make, size and controller. I have a Vertex, which gets better scores than the Samsung there. Although it is painfully obvious, Intel's X-25M Gen2 is the best.

 

[DoFoT9]

Ah, the Samsungs. Well, it all relates to whichever model, make, size and controller. I have a Vertex, which gets better scores than the Samsung there. Although it is painfully obvious, Intel's X-25M Gen2 is the best.

ahh right. see i didnt know there were different "models" of them, i just assumed that they were all the same and had different firmware (as that article indicates).

the intel SSDs do seem pretty amazing! they arent very effective for RAIDs though

 

[Gorilla Power]

Hello good people. This is by far one of the most constructive threads I've come across here. I took 2.5 hours to go through almost all of the 30 pages and based on what I've read, here's what I plan to do. Please tell me if I'm on the right track.


WANT
====

To install an Intel X-25M G2 80GB SSD using the newmodeUS OBHD9-SATA-SATA-NF (no frame model) caddy in my 2010 MacBook Pro 15".


GOAL
====

To have the default HDD as space to store my iTunes (music, iPhone apps) & Aperture libraries, photos, music, videos etc.


PLANNED PROCEDURE
==============

1. Take out default HDD
2. Install SSD into its place
3. Install Snow Leopard
4. Take out DVD drive
5. Install HDD-in-caddy in its place
6. Format HDD to Mac OS Journal Extended
7. Install OSX Applications on SSD and store everything else on HDD
8. Install the DVD drive into an external SATA casing (USB 2.0)


QUESTIONS
========

1. If I install Windows 7 on the HDD, will still I be able to boot into Boot Camp normally by pressing Option during start-up ?

2. Will the HDD in the caddy spin down automatically when its not in use ?

3. Is my selection of an external USB SATA housing for the DVD drive correct ? This (Amazon Germany link) is the one I plan on getting. (Alternate is an IDE housing).


I have never done hardware hacking before. Please let me have your suggestions and feel free to correct me if I'm doing anything wrong.

Thank you very much.

 

[mac8867]

good on you for sticking with a brand! i love it when somebody is passionate about something

but i must point out this article from anandtech, you seem pretty technically minded - so hopefully you will understand.

idk what to think of it really, they seem to be addressing the problems - but you arent certain to get a good drive.

mechanical HDDs for me still. $ $

Interesting article, especially with it's spin on the random write speeds. As a techie, I would dismiss the article as a reliable source of information considering it contains no benchmark setup information.

There are many many links in this thread pointing to reliable benchmarks and even posts from ourselves which would be more reliable. In fact, I am pretty certain there is at least one from me showing my OCZ Vertex performing the 4KB random above that shown in the chart of the articel in question.

 

[gadgetfreaky]

So dumb question (and I searched the thread for the answer but----)....

I know the hdd is user upgradable...but superdrive is not.
So doesn't that void your warranty if you take it in? I guess you could reverse it every time you had to take it in but that seems etreme and a mistake could happen

 

[DoFoT9]

Interesting article, especially with it's spin on the random write speeds. As a techie, I would dismiss the article as a reliable source of information considering it contains no benchmark setup information.

There are many many links in this thread pointing to reliable benchmarks and even posts from ourselves which would be more reliable. In fact, I am pretty certain there is at least one from me showing my OCZ Vertex performing the 4KB random above that shown in the chart of the articel in question.

fair call, maybe they were paid off?

would you care to post a few 4K read/writes in here for us? would really love to see write amplification effects but thats hard to see on most tests.

 

[eccentricglow]

Do the Western Digital drives already have their version of SMS and would cause issues to happen with the mac laptops if put in the stock area? So the drives would be okay to put in the optical slot if they have their own version of SMS?

 

[mac8867]

fair call, maybe they were paid off?

would you care to post a few 4K read/writes in here for us? would really love to see write amplification effects but thats hard to see on most tests.

OK, running XBench, my OCZ Vertex 250 comes out about where the article predicts with 4k block random tests, 11.75 write and 16.91 read.

So I went and looked up Write Amplification, and read about it on this site http://www.storagesearch.com/ssd-jargon.html

I am not SSD expert, but I am a computer engineer, so I understand D-Latch and the physics of fet transistors. So, I can come to a theoretical understanding in my mind about why SSD's wear out. I can also come to the same conclusions about RAM, albeit the basic nature of the two are similar, but not the same.

In the end, I expect a hard drive to have a mean time to failure of 1 million operating hours. Any of us who have been in the industry for a while, have accepted that as "the three year old" age of a drive. I fully expect the effects of wear leveling, write amplification etc to occur well beyond that threshold.

It IS interesting discussion, and I would love to hear the theoreticals and even the factuals... all I ask is they be supported. The article in question clearly only focused on the random small block read/writes --- which may not even constitute the majority of activity on any given system. The Intel SSD was specifically designed to optimize for small block random I/O, but fails to meet the mark in the other areas -- I reference my previous post to benchmarks conducted on that.

So, if you are working with lots of documents, images, movies, pictures etc... you are doing large block transfers --- it even gets bigger if you are running LOTS of RAM on a 64 bit system.

 

[orthorim]

OK, running XBench, my OCZ Vertex 250 comes out about where the article predicts with 4k block random tests, 11.75 write and 16.91 read.

So I went and looked up Write Amplification, and read about it on this site http://www.storagesearch.com/ssd-jargon.html

The Intel SSD was specifically designed to optimize for small block random I/O, but fails to meet the mark in the other areas -- I reference my previous post to benchmarks conducted on that.

So, if you are working with lots of documents, images, movies, pictures etc... you are doing large block transfers --- it even gets bigger if you are running LOTS of RAM on a 64 bit system.

Small random read/write is the biggest bottleneck in any system. This is why SSDs are so much faster than HDs. HDs have a pretty decent large file transfer rate, but small random IO is bad.

Each program that you open actually opens hundreds or even thousands of files. The operating system constantly mucks about with thousands of little files.

Small random therefore makes the whole system feel snappier. Reading large files is a border case that really only happens when you are editing huge photoshop or movie files. Of course if that's what you happen to be doing all day, then that may be equally important to you than small random read. For me, I never read/write large files.

 

[orthorim]

Hello good people. This is by far one of the most constructive threads I've come across here. I took 2.5 hours to go through almost all of the 30 pages and based on what I've read, here's what I plan to do. Please tell me if I'm on the right track.

Yes you are. I have this setup, but if I were to do it again I'd use a 160GB Intel X-25M G2. The 80GB sounded like a lot, but I found it to be very tight. Consider that you want at least 10GB free in case virtual memory files grow or something.

Then use OmniDiskSweeper to check the sizes of everything you want to put on the SSD. There's a lot of stuff in system folders, in Application Support, and other places which is possible, but not easy to move to the HD.

Also I want the SSD to be as self-sufficient as possible because you want the HD to remain in sleep mode most of the time - thats easily 30 - 45 minutes of battery life.

 

[chopper dave]

i want my cake and would like to eat it too- SSD in the stock bay and HDD in the "optibay" but not give up drop protection that SMS sensing provides. Can anyone recommend drives (or drive families) from various manufacturers that have built-in sudden motion sensors? I found the page with all or Western Digital's SMS drives, but unfortunately they max out at 320GB.

http://westerndigital.com/en/products/Products.asp?DriveID=477

Anyone have links for Hitachi, Seagate, etc?

 

[DoFoT9]

OK, running XBench, my OCZ Vertex 250 comes out about where the article predicts with 4k block random tests, 11.75 write and 16.91 read.

So I went and looked up Write Amplification, and read about it on this site http://www.storagesearch.com/ssd-jargon.html

interesting. i shall read soon. just got home from a long day at uni

I am not SSD expert, but I am a computer engineer, so I understand D-Latch and the physics of fet transistors. So, I can come to a theoretical understanding in my mind about why SSD's wear out. I can also come to the same conclusions about RAM, albeit the basic nature of the two are similar, but not the same.

oh computer engineer! awsome. i look forward to your replies!

i have a pretty decent understanding of RAM/SSDs etc at the computer level - but none of the actual theoretical understandings that you stated (lowest level etc). for most of the conversation, i am referring to NAND SSDs.

In the end, I expect a hard drive to have a mean time to failure of 1 million operating hours. Any of us who have been in the industry for a while, have accepted that as "the three year old" age of a drive. I fully expect the effects of wear leveling, write amplification etc to occur well beyond that threshold.

i shall attempt to find an article i read recently about MTTF of SSDs. the editor speculated a time a a few thousand years life time of the actual SSD, but the controller only had roughly 10years of usable life time. i will try find the article..

It IS interesting discussion, and I would love to hear the theoreticals and even the factuals... all I ask is they be supported. The article in question clearly only focused on the random small block read/writes --- which may not even constitute the majority of activity on any given system. The Intel SSD was specifically designed to optimize for small block random I/O, but fails to meet the mark in the other areas -- I reference my previous post to benchmarks conducted on that.

great start to my posts, no providing articles.. ugh.. most of my references will come from the article i listed before..

it did only focus on small write blocks yes, and in OSX 4K is the default file size - so 99% of users will be using that and experiencing those similar 'problems'. 4K seems to be the "default" block size for OSX, however the controller reads 512KB at a time (here).

The falling performance was actually a side effect of the way NAND flash works. You write in pages (4KB) but you can only erase in blocks (128 pages or 512KB); thus SSDs don't erase data when you delete it, only when they run out of space to write internally. When that time comes, you run into a nasty situation called the read-modify-write. Here, even to just write 4KB, the controller must read an entire block (512KB), update the single page, and write the entire block back out. Instead of writing 4KB, the controller has to actually write 512KB - a much slower operation.

So, if you are working with lots of documents, images, movies, pictures etc... you are doing large block transfers --- it even gets bigger if you are running LOTS of RAM on a 64 bit system.

for the most part that would be true! however, if you choose 512KB block size of your file system - then theoretically you should suffer no write amplifications! 512KB would be pretty optimal for movies/editing etc, dont you think?

Small random read/write is the biggest bottleneck in any system. This is why SSDs are so much faster than HDs. HDs have a pretty decent large file transfer rate, but small random IO is bad.

Each program that you open actually opens hundreds or even thousands of files. The operating system constantly mucks about with thousands of little files.

Small random therefore makes the whole system feel snappier. Reading large files is a border case that really only happens when you are editing huge photoshop or movie files. Of course if that's what you happen to be doing all day, then that may be equally important to you than small random read. For me, I never read/write large files.

yup the ability to read/write small files is very important! however currently, performance increases of SSDs of small files wont get THAT much better, as the limitation is with the controller and whatnot. such a STUPID way to do it! argh.

 

[Gorilla Power]

Yes you are. I have this setup, but if I were to do it again I'd use a 160GB Intel X-25M G2. The 80GB sounded like a lot, but I found it to be very tight. Consider that you want at least 10GB free in case virtual memory files grow or something.

Then use OmniDiskSweeper to check the sizes of everything you want to put on the SSD. There's a lot of stuff in system folders, in Application Support, and other places which is possible, but not easy to move to the HD.

Also I want the SSD to be as self-sufficient as possible because you want the HD to remain in sleep mode most of the time - thats easily 30 - 45 minutes of battery life.

Grateful thanks !

 

[orthorim]

The new 2010 MacBook Pros have the WiFi antenna on the optical drive:

http://www.appleinsider.com/article...s_antenna_mounted_to_optical_drive_frame.html

Can one of the hardware guys tell me whether that would make our mod more complicated? I am guessing not, the Bluetooth board was already attached to the optical before.. but... not sure. Something needs to keep that board in place, so maybe there's some new holes in the optical drive tray...

 

[Scottsdale]

For nothing? I'm not so sure about that..

For $10 you can have your hard drive held in with loose wires and electrical tape like this:

or for $30 more and no extra weight it can be held in like this:

Call me crazy, but on my nearly $4k laptop I'll take option 2.

Hell of an argument against OP and for Optibay!

 

[orthorim]

^^^ Guys... you might want to read a little more than page 1 before posting here.... otherwise you'll post something completely redundant.

 

[seier]

Do the Western Digital drives already have their version of SMS and would cause issues to happen with the mac laptops if put in the stock area? So the drives would be okay to put in the optical slot if they have their own version of SMS?

Hi there. After the long wait, and long days reading the "waiting for arrandle" thread, I finally got my new 15" MBP. I was wondering how did you installed the 1 TB plus the SSD in the MBP. Did you placed the SSD in the Optibay and replaced de HDD in it's original place (i guess yu did this because of the 12,7mm pb)? You didn't noticed any sleeping isues?

Thank you and thank you all for this great forum from spain!

 

[mac8867]

^^^ Guys... you might want to read a little more than page 1 before posting here.... otherwise you'll post something completely redundant.

+1

 

[dukebound85]

^^^ Guys... you might want to read a little more than page 1 before posting here.... otherwise you'll post something completely redundant.

well to read this post, they would need to no? lol

 

[Austin00]

What options have the UK guys got with regards to a drive bay replacement?
I'm not all too keen on ordering from anywhere abroad.

Also, is anyone running two drives in their mac with applecare by the way?
The reason i ask is because I'm a little worried about whether having to put the optical drive back into my new MBP (if i ever need to get it serviced by apple) could be detected by apple, thus voiding my warranty.

I remember on my original XBOX that microsoft put seals over several of the biggest screw heads holding the case together, so that anyone who opens their XBOX would be obviously guilty of tampering with the insides due to these seals being broken.