MCX Executive: Social Security Number Won't Be Required, Most Customers Don't Use Major Credit Cards

[richman555]

Paypal already supports bank accounts and credit cards all as payment methods.

My point is that CurrentC is not creating anything new (albeit very late).

The problem here is the restrictive agreements with retailers to not allow competing options.

 

[neuropsychguy]

Starbucks have been using QR codes very successfully for quite a while now including with Apple Passbook. Nothing Awkward about it.

They are awkward compared to NFC methods. The problem is that using QR codes is a backwards-looking technology. QR codes are great but they have serious limitations, one of which is security. They are too easy to create and spoof.

 

[philipk]

Paypal already supports bank accounts and credit cards all as payment methods.

My point is that CurrentC is not creating anything new (albeit very late).

The problem here is the restrictive agreements with retailers to not allow competing options.

Yes Paypal requires connecting a checking account but there are some differences (to me).

1. I only use it with Ebay or Under $25 software purchases.

2. I keep a special checking account that I use for Paypal. It only has a low balance.

3. To use that checking account with MCX, I would have to greatly increase my daily balance.

4. I know I am not the norm. However, the innovators that MCX need at the startup are not the norm either. They need people like me who are techno freaks. After they get us, then they go for normal people.

5. I doubt I will ever signup for MCX unless they go to NFC and take major credit cards.

 

[wikiverse]

Yes Paypal requires connecting a checking account but there are some differences (to me).

1. I only use it with Ebay or Under $25 software purchases.

2. I keep a special checking account that I use for Paypal. It only has a low balance.

3. To use that checking account with MCX, I would have to greatly increase my daily balance.

4. I know I am not the norm. However, the innovators that MCX need at the startup are not the norm either. They need people like me who are techno freaks. After they get us, then they go for normal people.

5. I doubt I will ever signup for MCX unless they go to NFC and take major credit cards.

As a techno freak, please explain how MCX would use NFC on the iPhone, and how they would implement it on the iPhone 5s and older.

 

[philipk]

As a techno freak, please explain how MCX would use NFC on the iPhone, and how they would implement it on the iPhone 5s and older.

They CAN'T implement it on the iPhone 5s and older as they don't have NFC. Of course you know that.

They also can't implement on a Motorola flip phone.

However, they probably can implement it on the new iPhones next year. That isn't guaranteed but if Apple does what they did with the fingerprint scanner, they will open NFC to third parties next year.

Time will weed out the older equipment.

Starbucks with QR codes is a different beast. The money is pre-loaded and usually well under $100.

QR codes linked to an open checking account is a disaster waiting to happen.

Finally, I live in an area where over half the stores don't have a good data signal near the cash registers. I have Verizon and use MoneyDance for my checkbook. In the majority of the stores, I have to wait until I am outside to enter my transaction into MoneyDance due to lack of a data signal.

QR codes need a data signal.

 

[milo]

Not really. The amount of people without credit cards (and bank accounts) is a big market, including in developed countries such as the U.S.

Way to keep missing my point. Of course there are plenty of people without credit cards, or even bank accounts. But how many of those people have smart phones? And even if they do, how would they use CurrentC without a credit card or bank account?

he's saying it in a way that implies 75% of all transactions are done via means which applePay can't do.. but you can use debit cards with apple pay and pretty much everybody has a debit card.

Good point, since Apple pay can use debit card as well, his distinction for credit card is meaningless. The only thing they cover that Apple doesn't is people who have a bank account (and a smart phone) but not a debit card, which makes that group even smaller.

 

[jweinraub]

Well, I just had my healthcare plan meeting at work and apparently CVS is now mandated. So much for giving CVS the boot.

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They CAN'T implement it on the iPhone 5s and older as they don't have NFC. Of course you know that.

They also can't implement on a Motorola flip phone.

However, they probably can implement it on the new iPhones next year. That isn't guaranteed but if Apple does what they did with the fingerprint scanner, they will open NFC to third parties next year.

Time will weed out the older equipment.

Starbucks with QR codes is a different beast. The money is pre-loaded and usually well under $100.

QR codes linked to an open checking account is a disaster waiting to happen.

Finally, I live in an area where over half the stores don't have a good data signal near the cash registers. I have Verizon and use MoneyDance for my checkbook. In the majority of the stores, I have to wait until I am outside to enter my transaction into MoneyDance due to lack of a data signal.

QR codes need a data signal.

Far as I am aware, the QR codes are one time use codes that are linked to the transaction. It is still annoying to go through all the hoops, but it isn't an encoded representation of your checking account (or credit)

 

[caesarp]

Good Article on the CurrentC mess . . .

http://www.pymnts.com/news/2014/current-c-and-the-big-merchant-mess/#.VFjulvMo7cs

"If CurrentC merchants really object that vigorously to card processing fees, they could stop accepting cards. But they won’t because merchants, whose primary business is selling stuff in their stores, don’t want something like payment to get in the way of making a sale.

Which is why it remains so unbelievable that CurrentC would force its merchants to pick a fight with the most popular consumer brand in the world – Apple– particularly when they have nothing to offer the consumer today as a mobile payments alternative.

Now, the standoff between CurrentC and Apple Pay has become a matter of basic human psychology. The more consumers are told they can’t do something, the more they want to do it, even if they had no intention of ever doing it in the first place. CurrentC did more to drive demand for Apple Pay last week than anything that Apple or the networks did, for sure. As my colleague David Evans said last week, it was like scoring a goal for the other team."
​

 

[samcraig]

http://www.pymnts.com/news/2014/current-c-and-the-big-merchant-mess/#.VFjulvMo7cs


Now, the standoff between CurrentC and Apple Pay has become a matter of basic human psychology. The more consumers are told they can’t do something, the more they want to do it, even if they had no intention of ever doing it in the first place. CurrentC did more to drive demand for Apple Pay last week than anything that Apple or the networks did, for sure. As my colleague David Evans said last week, it was like scoring a goal for the other team."

Haven't read the article - just the clip you posted. However I agree. Which is clearly illustrated on this forum and the hostility shown.

 

[SactoGuy18]

If you mean NFC-based loyalty cards, that is highly unlikely. Apple Pay relies on existing payment card standards and infrastructure. There is no standard for NFC-based loyalty cards, and to my knowledge no merchant has the equipment and capability to accept such cards. In fact, the installation of more optical scanners by the MCX merchants will probably lead to more QR-based loyalty cards that can be stored in Passbook.

From what I've read about Apple Pay, Apple has said there are updates in the works that may incorporate loyalty card support, something that a small number of retailers (notably Target and a few others that use loyalty cards a lot) want.

 

[nsayer]

Most of us don't use credit cards? What planet are they from?

Most of your criticism is spot-on, however, this is not completely accurately quoting them. They said that most of their customers use debit cards for transactions in their stores. And that squares pretty much with reality from what I can see as a customer observing my own and other customer behavior. What they leave out is that most of those debit cards (I posit) do have a Visa or MasterCard logo on them and also work as credit cards.

 

[CoMoMacUser]

Way to keep missing my point. Of course there are plenty of people without credit cards, or even bank accounts. But how many of those people have smart phones? And even if they do, how would they use CurrentC without a credit card or bank account?

No, I got your point. CurrentC and Apple Pay ignore -- at their peril -- people without credit cards and bank accounts. There's plenty of research showing that a lot of those people own smartphones. For example, according to www.cfsinnovation.com/content/fed-f...ers-be-heavy-users-mobile-financial-services:

"The Fed has found that the underbanked actually have access to mobile phones and smartphones in greater numbers than the population overall: 91% of these consumers have a mobile phone and 57% have a smartphone. This compares to the 87% of the U.S. population who have access to a mobile phone, and 44% of all consumers who use internet-enabled phones."

This sounds counterintuitive, but I've seen it before. For example, kids from low-income homes have tablets and smartphones at rates comparable to those from higher income homes. Why? One major reason is because their parents often can afford to spend a couple hundred bucks for a tablet or smartphone but not $1,000 or more for a desktop or laptop.

 

[nsayer]

Of course, Apple has the power to fix this exclusivity nonsense in seconds. They just simply have to add a clause to the App store requirements that if your app is a payment facilitating app, you are barred from restricting use of ApplePay as an alternative.

Mischief managed.

 

[milo]

No, I got your point. CurrentC and Apple Pay ignore -- at their peril -- people without credit cards and bank accounts.

So what payment method would they provide for people who have no credit, debit, or bank account? Some sort of prepaid balance on the app? That could be a possibility that would bring in some customers but generally low dollar amounts, they may not consider it worth the trouble.

 

[CoMoMacUser]

So what payment method would they provide for people who have no credit, debit, or bank account? Some sort of prepaid balance on the app? That could be a possibility that would bring in some customers but generally low dollar amounts, they may not consider it worth the trouble.

Yup. On the app is one way. Depending on the company behind that app, that also can be a way to get those folks to create bank accounts. For example, if you top off enough during six months, maybe you get a pitch for a bank account or credit card.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-Pesa is an example of how some companies are chasing this opportunity in developing markets. Some of those strategies could be applied to the unbanked/underbanked/no-credit folks in developed markets, too.

 

[caesarp]

What is MCX scared of? . . .

http://recode.net/2014/11/04/what-are-the-anti-apple-pay-merchants-afraid-of/

"I simply believe that people who respect their customers and have faith in their own technology products should welcome competition, and that consumer choice should be a paramount value in retailing."

Yes, CVS. Take heed of these words.

 

[samcraig]

http://recode.net/2014/11/04/what-are-the-anti-apple-pay-merchants-afraid-of/

"I simply believe that people who respect their customers and have faith in their own technology products should welcome competition, and that consumer choice should be a paramount value in retailing."

Yes, CVS. Take heed of these words.

You realize you're posting on MR and not on CVS's website or social networks, right?

 

[Renzatic]

You realize you're posting on MR and not on CVS's website or social networks, right?

...I do now.

 

[bigchief]

How many Wal Mart customers actually have checking accounts? Everything I'm reading suggests that there is limited availability to banks at low-income levels. Heck, Wal Mart's own employees have to have their paychecks cashed at Wal Mart (for a fee) just to get paid because they don't have bank accounts.

My guess is that reliance on credit cards is much more prevalent than this guy suggests, which brings into question all his other assertions.

Ding!, Ding!, Ding!, You win the stupidest post award!

 

[laurim]

Ding!, Ding!, Ding!, You win the stupidest post award!

Why? Are you mad that Walmart is known for having a lot of low income shoppers and employees? Many Walmart employees aren't paid enough to be able to get off welfare. There's a reason Walmart has in-store check cashing, money-order purchasing (because that's what many people without checking accounts use to pay bills) and a generous layaway program.

 

[paulsiu]

CurrentC is another example of poor execution. The mobile wallet world is full of them and even if you execute well, you get stomped by another player.

Google Wallet actually had the right idea. They tried to get enough bank vendors to sign up. The interface is pretty good. Unfortunately for them, the carrier of the phone blocked them because they backed a different system call Softcard (formerly known as ISIS Pay). Softcard is owned by AT&T, Verizon, and T-Mobile, so on those networks your google wallet may not work properly. To get around this, Google implemented a workaround in Kitkat, but this mean Tap and pay only works with KitKat or later. Because Android vendor are so good with updates , there are a lot of android phones without google wallet even if they have NFC.

After dealing Google Wallet a near fatal blow, Softcard then go and do a really poor implementation of a mobile wallet. They only sign up 4 card vendors, require users to get a new SIM card, and also have limited support from the merchants. The interface is also bad. To pay, you have to unlock and find the card you want to pay with.

Apple appeared to have learn from the other's mistake. They signed up a lot of card vendors. To counter Google, they indicate that they won't log purchasing information and even use the NFC terminal paved by Google. They fully control their hardware and won't get blocked by the carriers and can block google wallet and softcard on iphones. What they don't have is a merchant support, but they figure that the consumer will backed them and force the merchant to see things their way.

The QRcode in CurrentC appeared to have been a strategic move. MCX probably wanted to have the broadest platform. Not everyone have a NFC phone. It's been used by Starbucks and airline for a while. If they tried to use NFC, they may be blocked by the carrier or Apple. They could have said QRCode is only 1 of the possible payment method they will use. The could have alleviate concerns with security. I can't believe that people will willingly link their checking accounts to a unproven system. Perhaps it's protected similar to a Target Redcard, which uses the debit card protection.

In the end, the people who's business is to sell us stuff failed to sell us on the value of this system. To make things worse, they blocked an existing payment system with a promise of a system that's months way. No wonder people are angry!

Perhaps this was doomed from the start. Unlike Google or Apple, MCX is really a group of organization each competing for your dollar, it's really a band of enemies united against the common enemy of MasterCard and Visa. In the end, they can't work together well enough to come up with a decent plan.

Ideally, I think it would be nice to have several competing pay system co-existing. Not everyone has the same type of phone or payment preferences. A bit of competition is usually good, even though it is a hindrance in the beginning.


Paul

 

[flat five]

Why? Are you mad that .....

idk, i read @bare's post as odd too though maybe for a different reason than chief..

the first paragraph seems ok but the conclusion of "since less lower income people have checking accounts --> they rely on credit cards instead" ...isn't true

they don't have/can't get credit cards anymore.. that was last decade..

people with no checking accounts use cash

 

[eltonic]

Time for Apple to pull the app, not even joking.

LOL. If Android and Apple pull the app. Then GG CurentC.

 

[JGRE]

You know, when you enter into a contract or agreement, you're required to adhere to the contract or agreement too. How is this any different.

You can fault them for joining the consortium. You can't get pissy at them for adhering to the requirements.

Thats's how you see it, luckily I see that 'others' are already filing a class action lawsuits. Contracts should always stay within the boundaries of the law. What they are doing is certainly not.

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LOL. If Android and Apple pull the app. Then GG CurentC.

Right, than they are left with app. 3% of the smartphone market: RIP MCX.

 

[bigchief]

Why? Are you mad that Walmart is known for having a lot of low income shoppers and employees? Many Walmart employees aren't paid enough to be able to get off welfare. There's a reason Walmart has in-store check cashing, money-order purchasing (because that's what many people without checking accounts use to pay bills) and a generous layaway program.

The people who work for WalMart make a hell of a lot more money than the people who make the iPhone.