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Media Center PCs?

I used a Toshiba MC laptop over the summer that had built in tivo/tv tuner, video capture, media card readers, etc. It was really heavy and froze up a lot, so if these new systems will be anything like that, I'd still rather watch TV on my HD Samsung TV, listen to music on my Pioneer system, and record video with my Sony.

I also loved that quote comparing the swiss army knife to the katana. :D
 
Video-On-Demand

If at some point HDTV content can be downloaded via the web and played back on your TV, integration like this could take off. Video-On-Demand is still in its infant stages IMHO. Websites like Movielink.Com (a joint venture among Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer Studios, Paramount Pictures, Sony Pictures Entertainment, Warner Bros. and Universal Pictures) have the opportunity to deliver the content, but those who have experienced HDTV at 1080i or 720p will not want to spend time or money on anything else. There is a big opportunity here. Either we wait for the cable companies to offer us what we want, or someone figures out how to deliver it over the web.
 
I have a Media Center PC

I have it in my room as a computer, but also as a TV.

Its great I wont part with it ever!

Tivo service without subcription? YES PLEASE!

Now I can even download movies from my remove control !!!

Even MP3, I wish iTunes would integrate into Media Center.

I have had for about 9 months and works great!

Now 2004 version came out even betta !!!

Some times you gotta buy PC, cause macs cant compete. (el gato and all that crap cant compare to Media Center try it out at the stores you'll see...)
 
Qcast

I'll just stick with my PS2 (w/network), OSX, and GameShark MediaPlayer.

It can play DivX, XviD, MEPG1/2/4, and MP3's from my Mac's hard drive over my wireless LAN.

As far as recording... Time Warner has a TIVO like box (Scientific Atlanta Explorer 8000) for $6/ month. I can record 2 shows at once while watch a third recorded show. It holds like 50 hours. Also, no upfront costs and when the Technology is out dated I trade it in for a new one.

The LAST thing I would want is a PC that acted as my entertainment station for DVD's and PVR. I very much prefer to have stand-along boxes that do that stuff.

Can't get any better (for now) :)

Also SA is coming out with a HD Tuner/Recorder Q1 of 2004.
 
Wow, this sounds like a horrible idea. There’s no way that Microsoft can engineer a “multimedia” package that incorporates so many things and have it be user friendly –- I’m amazed that Apple did it with their iLife suite, but they have years on Microsoft in terms of designing user friendly apps. You know that the average person who wants to record television or watch DVDs isn’t going to be able to figure out how to effectively use the thing. I think your average consumer would rather (hence, it is easier) watch a DVD or use a TIVO hooked up to the TV. Especially when you consider what Microsoft will probably charge for this software upgrade.

And because it’s Microsoft, you know this thing is going to be buggy as hell.
 
Comcast will begin deployment of the Motorola HDTV PVR in November. Record High-Def programming for replay with pause, fast forward, and rewind. Also could use it to do your own instant replays while watching live HD sporting events. Nothing but HD for me once I get my hands on this STB :eek:
 
Originally posted by arn
In theory... sure... but in practice, this setup can be a pain in the ass. Let us know how it goes.

arn
Click to expand...

I agree with Arn, this is a real hack situation. I built my own Media Center PC, and it works...sort of. This is definitely first generation stuff and not for the neophyte PC user; but the possibilities are intriguing.

But here is the rub. I can't decide if I want the ability to record and save all my favorite programs or simply the ability to watch them whenever I want. I think on demand viewing as a service will replace recording. It will not be long before your cable or satellite dealer can provide you with the ability to watch any show or movie you want and stream it to you on demand. Imagine signing up with your favorite channel, say National Geographic or NFL football, and be able to watch anything in their library without commercials. Why sell advertisement when you can sell your product directly to the consumer? And why go to all the trouble to save, store, and backup all your digital media when you can just come home, turn on the panel, and watch whatever you want?

Tivo is just one step away from from this senerio. If I am going to pay for a service I want complete freedom, I don't want to worry about disc drive space.
 
Bad idea

I would much rather have a standalone TiVo type box that can wirelessly transfer its files to and from my Mac. Let it do the work, my processor and hard drive are already busy enough.

Why would I want to tie up my computer while I record a show? Let another, cheaper box do the work and I'll grab the file once its done.
 
Creeping control and expansion

M$ could then try to alter the way TV is delivered to the massess with "common platform technology, that will obviously work for everyone", so long as its m$ based!
Heck m$ are prob trying to find a way to sell wins..t 3000 to everyone, even if they don't own a pc.
 
Originally posted by MacVault
I think Apple should do this too! I would love to be able to sit at my home theatre or TV and pull photos, movies, and music over the network from my Powermac G5. Also being able to record shows from the TV to my mac in MPEG4 would be sooo sweet! This would be awsome! What is Apple's problem with this? If someone doesn't want to 'converge' then they don't have to. But we should have to the option to if we want.

Is there currently any 3rd party solution to do this???
Click to expand...

Let's see, iTunes, iPhoto, iMovie, Formac, Tivo (w/bluetooth integration) so hmmmm, that would be a YES! This whole "media center" thing fails and falls short of the "digital hub" which Apple is pushing. When you look at what HP is doing and some of the others, all it amounts to is being able to plug and play with ease - or in other words IT JUST WORKS! Problem is, it will only work with HP items, or Sony w/Sony extras, Dell w/Dell stuff - what a load of crap. That is the nice thing about macs they just work with EVERYTHING - ok, not everything but more that PCs.

Arn also has a good point about not wanting to reboot all the time. From the cNet article " With the software upgrade, code-named Harmony, Microsoft has tried to address some of the critiques from its earliest customers and improve the overall stability of the operating system." Hmmm, so we are still trying to stabilize the operating system.

Imagine these conversations:
"Honey ER is on, but the system won't boot up, guess we will have to drag out the old 15" color TV with rabbit ears AGAIN!"
or
"Kids, I know you want to watch Barney, but the TV is infected with the M-big virus and isn't working right now." (maybe this would be a good thing!)

Just doesn't make good sense!
 
Good idea, bad product

I think M$ is on the right track but obviously a standalone PC to do the task of recording, playback movies, etc. is all wrong for the reasons mentioned in this thread. However, the ideas are outstanding. Look at what we are talking about:

1. recording and playback of TV, just like a Tivo. Equipped with the ability to watch one program and record 1-3 other programs simultaneously.

2. movies on-demand. With the exception of the pay-per-view channels on satellite and cable, this is a relatively new and burgeoning market.

3. Photos, music, digital hub stuff etc etc.

4. Integration with your computer, access to computer files.

While I think M$ implementation of these concepts is poorly executed by developing a standalone PC, I do think Apple could mac out this setup .

I've been waiting for the next generation of Tivo to do just this, better integrate with my computer. An Apple appliance would be perfect. It serves all the functions of Tivo but also hooks into your computer, the internet, serves up photos, iTunes, recorded TV, movies on demand. It extends the digital hub from your office into your living room. Let's be realistic here, this is a natural and expected extension.

Why is this different from M$, two reasons. It keeps the digital hub centered around you main computer and connects via 802.11g or ethernet. Second: the next big thing from Apple, the vPod. Grab your TV show, your movies on demand and take it with you. It doubles as a remote control for this system, it's perfect.

Apple would no doubt be able to execute these concepts in a way that would make people drool for one of thes systems. M$ simply lacks good innovation and the drool factor.
 
If a mac is good enough for professionals to write music with and edit film on, it's not hard to understand that it would be excellent to listen to music with and watch film on. :confused:

Considering all the apps that apple has made in recent years, that G5's already have optical audio outs, and the phenominal amount of video projectors on the market, why not?

Why buy additional dedicated equipment? First of all it's expensive, secondly it takes up room, and lastly the "features" dedicated a/v equipment have in my view can't make up for the first two reasons. You already have DVI on the best video cards, capability for a 24bit 96kHz audio system, a very stable OS with tons of integrated apps (talk about a feature rich a/v system) and AND you can even get a single IR remote (or use your bluetooth enabled cellphone) to control it all. It also looks good and is more feng-shui than a million cables and a rack of a/v equipment IMHO. :D
 
let's look at this from a consumer stand point. the average person will not be able to deal with the complexities of a pc (or mac) media center, just think back to how hard it was for many people to program a vcr! the key is simplicity and that is why apple has not made a media center.

for one, unless you'll be able to do everything like control digital cable, recording (tivo), play dvds/cds/mpegs/mp3s/etc. and still be able to work/play, i think you'll be hard pressed to find people willing to give up their entertainment centers. what about a remote control for that matter?

let's say it did all that though, another issue would be actually using your computer and watching tv at the same time and the ergonimcs involved. your tv would have to be a second monitor, because like others have mentioned, no one in their right mind is going to gather the family around the computer to watch a dvd.

for now, i think a real media center would be too expensive and complex to produce for the mass market. i'd be the first inline if apple gave a viable option, but from an economics stand point for apple (or pc) to produce a real media center, it's a guaranteed loser.
 
Truth is, I want my computer and my entertainment center separate. I think Jobs is right. I dont want my fridge to be my toaster.

I like to work when my wife is watching TV or movies, and if we had them all integrated, I probably couldnt do that. I'd rather have a TiVo and a G5 than a G5 that doubled as my TiVo. I couldnt imagine trying to get some work done while people constantly bug me to change the channel/radio station or ask me to record or playback tv or movies all day. That would get very distracting. We'd end up having to gt two computers, and that sorta defeats the purpose, right? Might as well just get a TiVo and save you the time and money.
 
I have a computer that I use as a TV/VCR/DVD Player hooked to my TV. But I have nothing but problems when trying to do anything. And you can forget trying to record TV while doing something else, cause my computer ain't fast enough.

I really wanted to build a intergrated system at one time but after I calculated the cost it would have been almost $1500, and that is not worth it!

I think this whole integration idea is a BAD ONE! Your appliances are seperate for a reason! I would buy a Tivo if I could afford it.

The computer should do what it does best and leave the Tivo and DVD Player to what it does best!
 
More reason to push M$ stuff on the unsuspecting masses.

I really noticed this when installing WinXP for a friend. The first time you boot up M$ opens windows with things like " You need a Passport to enjoy the internet. Sign up for one here." or " get your email account here" and all are links to MS stuff like Hotmail, MSN etc.

Now I know that you don't need these things but to someone who doesn't know computers very well, like the average consumer, they will go "Gee, I need this. Ok." and thus M$ has sucked in another hapless consumer into the M$ dominated world.

I can oonly see how this could be used or abused in the case of this media center. Imagine getting these popups on your TV... "In order to watch movies on demand, you need to sign up here. M$movie link" or " You need to sign up here in order to record Sports events. M$ Sports link"

Now you tell me that isn't anti-competitive or Monopolistic......

Another small item that is kinda associated with this is on the M$ site it says:

The Demo requires Microsoft Internet Explorer (version 5.0 or higher) and the Macromedia Flash Player (version 6.0).
Click to expand...

"REQUIRES M$ IE?" It played just fine on my Mac with Safari and Netscape and my laptop with Linux in Opera. Just another example of M$ skewing the details to make people think that M$ is the only solution.

$0.02
 
PC in the livingroom...

Well I don't own a TV or a stereo, but I do have a 17" iMac in my livingroom! ;) I use it to watch movies and play music (Harman/Kardon SoundSticks) and it works just fine for me and most people are impressed by the sound and video quality.

It works because, well, it's a Mac and easy to look at. I can't imagine having an ugly PC box sitting there for everyone to look at. But then, that's a matter of personal taste.

Integration works only when having every individual piece doesn't make sense. (Like not having the space for it or some components aren't important enough to invest in.)
 
Originally posted by 1adonis1
What's the difference between a "Media Center" and a "Digital Hub".
Click to expand...

The "Media Center" concept has one all-powerful computer, period. The computer replaces your DVD player. The computer replaces you VCR/TiVO. The computer replaces your CD player. The computer replaces your receiver. The computer replaces your tuner.

The "Digital Hub" concept has one powerful computer ringed with separate devices all doing their own jobs. You have a DVD player to play DVDs. You have a TiVO to record shows and pause live TV. You have a CD player for your as-yet-unripped CD collection. You have a receiver and tuner and speakers to vibrate the air just like you've had more or less since the 1970's. The computer doesn't replace these products, it connects them.

Yes, in the Digital Hub there are on a whole many duplicated parts. Yes, your computer and DVD player and CD player all have a CD/DVD drive and mechanism. Yes, all components have their own power supplies.

However, there are distinct advantages to the Digital Hub:

1) No single point of failure. If your DVD player fries, you can still watch the news.

2) Simpler component interfaces, with the conceptual ability to provide a "unified" interface at the Hub if necessary. It is significantly easier to pop a DVD in your DVD player and watch a movie than it is to fiddle with software-based DVD players.

3) Discrete hardware aids "multitasking". Dad can do his spreadsheets on the Digital Hub while Junior watches Jurassic Park on the DVD player and Sister streams MP3's to her bedroom.

4) Spatiality of user interfaces: there is no temptation for the face of the DVD player to double as the TV controls or the receiver to control the CD player, in discrete components. In software, the interfaces have a unified look (to signal that they "go together") but no spatial relationship to aid the user in determining which is which (ie, the DVD player controls come up in the same place as the satellite controls ...)

5) Given the "multitasking" argument above, you will doubtless want a PC of some sort in your house anyways (you can't just skip doing taxes because Sally wants to watch the all-night marathon of All In The Family, right?); that means you've already got the Digital Hub. This puts a "Media Center" solution as a replacement for components, not for the PC itself. Cost wise, the Media Center is way too expensive to replace better-working components.

In summary, the Media Center sets out to replace nicely integrated, well-functioning, and relatively cheap components with a PC which has an unweildy interface, horrendous setup and maintenance issues (when was the last time your Pioneer receiver was hit with a Worm?), and illogical and inconsistent controls. And you want to do this while charging the customer 2-3 times as much as the components the Media Center replaces.
 
Originally posted by Powerbook G5
Damn, Time Warner here stuck me with a crappy Motorola digital cable box that can't do anything good.
Click to expand...

I normally wouldn't recommend Dish to anyone (we were much happier with DirecTV before we moved ...) but Dish will provide you with a TiVO box (only single-tuner, though; you can only record one show at a time while viewing a pre-recorded show ... still, that's about like two VCRs ...) for a ~$20 "set-up fee". No monthly charges whatsoever (aside from the usual Dish charges, and the TiVO/Receiver unit both acts as and counts as one "room" of service).

If it weren't for the fact that the program guide is constantly in need of updating (you press "Guide" and one out of ten times you end up waiting a minute or so for the latest Guide to be downloaded from the satellite ... I NEVER had such a problem with DirecTV!) I would absolutely love Dish ...
 
Originally posted by xtekdiver
I agree with Arn, this is a real hack situation. I built my own Media Center PC, and it works...sort of. This is definitely first generation stuff and not for the neophyte PC user; but the possibilities are intriguing.
Click to expand...

The problem is, this isn't first generation stuff! ATI's been at this for the better part of a decade, IIRC!

The MS Media Center is, however, a significantly improved revision of the old ATI AllInWonder concept car of the past. It's almost usable. However, fundamentally, there isn't a distinct advantage to be had, and there are still significant cost issues to be confronted.
 
I think this whole debate about whether a PC can be a useful TV/media center is kind of misguided. Let's face it, in the future (near?) TVs will get more and more computing power and digital features. At the same time computers will get more media features. The only question is when will the crossover or convergence between TV and computer occur. That is, when will the TV and the computing device become the same thing? Whether this will happen in five years (unlikely), or ten years (possibly), or thirty years (almost certainly) is the only real debate.

As I heard someone say recently, in the not too distant future when we "old" guys and gals talk about PCs the young people may ask, "What's a PC?"
 
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