For how long? First it was the laptops with non upgrade able memory, now it's the desktops...
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Memory in New $1099 iMac is Soldered and Not Upgradable
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For how long? First it was the laptops with non upgrade able memory, now it's the desktops...
This is not true for a good number of people. Many people like myself do like the ability to upgrade hardware, especially the RAM, in the future. Though it would make perfect sense from the point of view of someone who isn't really technically savvy for it to not be upgradeable, for some people who don't have the money to go full out and buy an upgradeable iMac but would like to upgrade their hardware in the future this isn't such a great thing because they can't upgrade it if they needed to.
This is why I made the mistake of buying a laptop as my primary system and not a desktop.
If Apple built cars, you wouldn't be able to change tires.. You'd have to buy a new car!!!
This describes it all:
"Apple designs Macs, the best personal computers in the world, along with OS X, iLife, iWork and professional software. Apple leads the digital music revolution with its iPods and iTunes online store. Apple has reinvented the mobile phone with its revolutionary iPhone and App Store, and is defining the future of mobile media and computing devices with iPad."
All references to past success and nothing new.
Where are those best products Cue???
"Apple designs Macs, the best personal computers in the world, along with OS X, iLife, iWork and professional software. Apple leads the digital music revolution with its iPods and iTunes online store. Apple has reinvented the mobile phone with its revolutionary iPhone and App Store, and is defining the future of mobile media and computing devices with iPad."
All references to past success and nothing new.
Where are those best products Cue???
Choices.
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You have options.
http://www.apple.com/imac/specs/
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You have options.
http://www.apple.com/imac/specs/
Not true. Consumers don't know that they want to upgrade. Most of us here will have friends and family that have expressed frustration with the clunky state of their machine only for us to give it a new lease of life by doubling the ram and/or installing a larger HDD.
All this does is take that option away from them. 4 years ago a 21" iMac owner could pop into the local techie shop and describe the problem and they would do the same job as I describe.
I'd love for Cook or Ive to face some probing questions on this issue, because there is no way that the phrase "better for the consumer" could be uttered by them in justification in conversation with someone that would challenge them.
It does not make sense from an economic perspective. The higher the volume, the cheaper the parts get - and therefore up goes Apple's margin. The iMac is not some exclusive ultra luxury item like a Ferrari that the manufacturer wants to keep rare and expensive. At the end of the day, these are retail machines with fairly commoditized parts. It would make no sense for Apple to price it out of reach of anyone who wants to buy it - and incredibly insane for any large corporation to pay a higher price for a fairly unremarkable commodity product.
I think such an idea of making RAM not upgradeable in a base model is good and bad.
It's good because for a lot of people, 8GB of RAM is going to be enough for a while, and they won't need to or want to upgrade it for the time they want to use it. It contributes to a lower cost of the machine (I think) so for a regular computer for many people it is good. I know a lot of people wouldn't have the know-how or wouldn't even dare upgrade it themselves.
It's bad because obviously for some people who do want to upgrade it they can't. Some people will buy it because they cannot quite afford the upgradeable models or figure that 8GB would be enough for a little while, but would like to upgrade in the future. While it is affordable for people like this, they would have to buy an entirely new system when the time to upgrade comes.
So I guess you can say that I'm in between support and against.
It's good because for a lot of people, 8GB of RAM is going to be enough for a while, and they won't need to or want to upgrade it for the time they want to use it. It contributes to a lower cost of the machine (I think) so for a regular computer for many people it is good. I know a lot of people wouldn't have the know-how or wouldn't even dare upgrade it themselves.
It's bad because obviously for some people who do want to upgrade it they can't. Some people will buy it because they cannot quite afford the upgradeable models or figure that 8GB would be enough for a little while, but would like to upgrade in the future. While it is affordable for people like this, they would have to buy an entirely new system when the time to upgrade comes.
So I guess you can say that I'm in between support and against.
I think you've missed the point. This is potentially a sign of things to come. Sure, today you can opt out of the soldered ram configuration. That might not be so next refresh. This new model may very well be the first of an internal redesign.
I do believe that the majority of users don't upgrade their parts. When it's
Time for an upgrade it's time for a new computer. That's the feeling I get from most conouter owners, in general. Globally this probably isn't an issue. Sucks for the competent folks though.
Computers are getting more like cars every day. Fifty years ago people knew how to do basic things like change tired, oil, etc. I would say swapping ram is pretty analogous to that. Nowadays "nobody" knows how to service their car. They just whip out their cell phone and call someone to do it for them.
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The biggest problem I have with it is just how inexpensive ram is. I can order a high quality two dinn 16gb of ram for about $50. Upgrading through Apple costs far more than that. Even if I didn't know how to install it I could pay someone else to upgrade it for me for a money savings.
Apple has essentially put something of an expiration date on their product. My late 2009 27 inch iMac feels brand new with 16gb (up from 4) ram and an SSD, both of which were cost prohibitive five years ago. Being that the computer lasted me five years, I don't see why it shouldn't last another five with this performance upgrade. The $400 I spent on parts (let's throw in another $100 for labor, though I did it myself -ram is far easier than the ssd), was far less than what it would have run me to buy a new machine.
From a business standpoint this is absolutely great for apple. People will buy more product. But from a company that's all about being green, it's far greener to keep a pc on a persons' desk for another few years than to be proud about how recyclable it is.
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100% this.
Ok - let me rephrase.
What is wrong with giving me the OPTION to replace the ram in the budget model iMac, IF I decided I want to?
You clearly have more money than most. The upgrade path today is expensive and may not be required by most at the outset. It becomes a problem in a few years as OSX becomes more RAM hungry. At that time the RAM option is a cheap upgrade and not one forced upon them at purchase time.
Instead of pointing out the options as Apple chooses to offer them, please provide a reason as to why Apple is valid in taking away an option that has historically been available - especially on a desktop.
This ultimately becomes a question of wether we acknowledge the right of Apple to do this in its own interests and not the consumer's. After all business is business. But if that is the case then the morality of Apple's position is questionable as it favours shareholders over consumers. It favours money over a social conscience. It makes a statement that Apple is not ALL about the experience. It shows us that Apple is just another fashionista corp riding high on a few good products at the moment, but that we should all switch in a heartbeat should something better come along. Alas, Apple wouldn't be here today if there weren't people out there that showed it some loyalty when it could do with it and yet Apple demonstrates here that it is willing to squeeze every last hint of money from its consumers.
Three things:
1) 99% of people do not care about upgradability.
2) This is a machine for education and other institutional bulk buyers where price is the number one concern.
3) If you are the 1% that DO care about upgradability, buy another model and go on living your life.
Why is this so hard for people to get?
1) 99% of people do not care about upgradability.
2) This is a machine for education and other institutional bulk buyers where price is the number one concern.
3) If you are the 1% that DO care about upgradability, buy another model and go on living your life.
Why is this so hard for people to get?
I was a Genius at an Apple Store here in Australia for about 2 years.
It was downright criminal how much we charged to upgrade ram. We would have to charge $240 for an extra 8GB of ram.
Let that sink in. $240...for 8GB.
I often told people to go to a local computer store near our Apple store, told them what ram to buy and how to install it themselves. The ram Apple uses in iMacs isn't anything special, in fact it's pretty ordinary ram.
To put it in perspective, that same local computer store would sell you 16gb of FASTER ram for $179.
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Why is it so hard for people like you to understand that even if it is NEVER used, having the OPTION is NEVER a bad thing?!
why should they do anything? Apple as a company doesn't have to do anything they don't want to do. it's up to YOU as a consumer to tell them otherwise by not buying the product.
i don't understand this line of reasoning? a company isn't beholden to anybody.
Thats a very good point. Can we not care about the environment though?
Apple make a hell of a song and dance about their green credentials in one breath and then go and make a throwaway computer in the next when Im pretty sure it would have been simple enough to do otherwise.
I'd agree with this. For an entry level machine, most users would be better off getting the entry level Mac mini, spending about $150 for 16GB of RAM, and using the desktop equipment they probably already have.
seems like a lot of assumptions without any real facts. how many computers are recycled? how many end up in a landfill? how many of them wouldn't have been if they had upgradeable ram? what's the average length of ownership time for this particular imac?
I can bet you top dollar you can't answer that third question with any legitimacy.
Surely to truly have options you need an option that doesn't have the compromises that come with options.
Cheaper and easier to produce in this case.
Hardware design is about tradeoffs. If this option is NEVER used (especially for the target market) this is more than an acceptable tradeoff.
Just like the iPhone 5c - not really low priced - just low spec for virtually the same price.
Feels like Apple is now going to have a regular a 'car boot sale' with of bits and bobs, but still expects to charge for 'new and innovative' technology. Which this stuff clearly is not.
50% lower performance - no upgradable memory. Surprised they didn't make the screen black and white!
If this is for education then it is even worse. Are you saying that the education market has so much spare cash that it doesn't mind it's future upgrade options being taken away from it? America is a very different country indeed.
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You wouldn't help your grandma out if her machine were getting a bit slow on the net by upgrading the ram for her?
What did she of to deserve that? I know as I have neighbours in their 80s that get occasional links to family videos that they can't play. I've upgraded them as much as I can and it works for now.
An obvious reason
Yes, it could be strange for some people, and yes, many could complain about not being upgradable, BUT there is a very simple and obvious reason for having the RAM soldered to the board: it already has te maximum RAM upgrade it could have! It's a smaller iMac, with components from small laptops, like the MacBook Air that has also the capacity for 8 gigs as maximum RAM, so it's not intended to be for more than the casual user, for home, not as a working computer, particularly for that sector the iMac is very popular, like design, audio and video, so this is simply a computer intended for that original market the original iMac was aimed for: the housekeeper, the parents that just use it for some tasks, the little kids, etc., and I guess it is good enough for that. I mean, I have a just one generation Mac mini with 8 gigs and it turns out to be enough even for some design and audio tasks I expect it to do well, and even for profesional use from time to time - tough the final use for that Mac mini is just for entertaining, not work - , so I think 8 gigs or RAM soldered because it's the most it can support is perfectly understandable.
Of course for most of the kind of users that had gone for the iMac with the years as a working machine: there are all the other configurations with more horsepower, and even as a real professional computer: the 27" iMac, that is easer to upgrade the RAM because of the door at the rear, but also, obviously, because it's a professional computer: to be able to upgrade to a much higher amount of RAM.
Yes, it could be strange for some people, and yes, many could complain about not being upgradable, BUT there is a very simple and obvious reason for having the RAM soldered to the board: it already has te maximum RAM upgrade it could have! It's a smaller iMac, with components from small laptops, like the MacBook Air that has also the capacity for 8 gigs as maximum RAM, so it's not intended to be for more than the casual user, for home, not as a working computer, particularly for that sector the iMac is very popular, like design, audio and video, so this is simply a computer intended for that original market the original iMac was aimed for: the housekeeper, the parents that just use it for some tasks, the little kids, etc., and I guess it is good enough for that. I mean, I have a just one generation Mac mini with 8 gigs and it turns out to be enough even for some design and audio tasks I expect it to do well, and even for profesional use from time to time - tough the final use for that Mac mini is just for entertaining, not work - , so I think 8 gigs or RAM soldered because it's the most it can support is perfectly understandable.
Of course for most of the kind of users that had gone for the iMac with the years as a working machine: there are all the other configurations with more horsepower, and even as a real professional computer: the 27" iMac, that is easer to upgrade the RAM because of the door at the rear, but also, obviously, because it's a professional computer: to be able to upgrade to a much higher amount of RAM.