Right. That's the irony of it.
Okay. 'No one' was a hyperbole.
Gosh, I can't get anything past you guys today!
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Metric system in the usa
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Right. That's the irony of it.
Okay. 'No one' was a hyperbole.
Gosh, I can't get anything past you guys today!
I said some stuff, and....
Yeah, I'm having a tough day too ...
No, that's not how it works -- YOU are supposed to do that to support your argument, not me
...
Okay. 'No one' was a hyperbole.
Gosh, I can't get anything past you guys today!
Yeah, I'm having a tough day too ...
Actually it is quite easy to order half a kilo of cheese, the question is if you wanted it grated, sliced or by the chunk, they've are pretty good at it.
I didn't say that at all.
Certain things are good for one thing but not as good for another. Basing your metrics off of water and light make a lot of sense when you have to measure a great deal of new items and compare them objectively.
On the other hand when you need metrics to be a guide through daily life and nothing else, the system that's born from daily necessity makes a lot more sense.
The reasoning gets worse when you'd ask 311 million to make a change because a smaller community of professionals would like their standards to be the standards for all of society. It's not like the two can't coexist; there might be a good argument there if the two were incompatible, but the fact is that they're not.
A distinction needs to be made here: just because something is easier to multiply by 10 (or 1/10th) doesn't mean that it's easier to use. How many times in your daily life do you need to multiply by 10, or even multiply what you measure? In most of my daily activities the metric system would do nothing new except provide a new set of numbers to get to know.
Even if you did occasionally multiply daily measurements, it would probably be with a smaller integer like 2, 3, or 4. In that case, the imperial system works very well because it provides very low factors and products that most people can do rapidly with nothing more than their 2nd grade 12x12 tables. In fact that's exactly how it came to be the way it is.
How often does that easy arithmetic come up outside of science? Can you think of a real life example?
In any case, I do already have it. It's on every measuring device I have, from my ruler to my bathroom scale. I use it when it's necessary or more effective, but that's rare. Maybe you should accept that people can have a different preference.
They are not mutually exclusive values. Both are important factors in determining whether or not to switch. It's just like when a business decides to change it's logo; not only does the cost of marketing the new logo have to be factored in, but the potential lost sales also have to be weighed. In much the same way we have to decide if certain things being switched to metric will ever pay off and how disruptive they'll be. Some things that make sense like food and toiletries have already been metricated. Other things probably cost a lot more and won't be able to overcome their switching cost and they could also cost a lot.
You are entirely correct. There is really nothing that will make the daily life of an American citizen better 'cause their can of Bud is 331ml, or their corn-beef sandwich has 125gs of beef, and 12ml of mustard on two slices of rye, each 115mm thick.
But don't go around telling the world what a "modern" society you are when you are still stuck measuring things with this quaint system that the rest of the world has modernized away from. it's really kinda cute, you know.
OK. So we all agree 100% that the USA should switch to the metric system. Now the question is how? Cold turkey, change everything at once, all new signs on roads, all new packaging on goods, etc. Little by little, make new signs have both miles and kms and keep that for a generation? What would be easier?
Quite frankly I really don't understand why this attitude is necessary. Have I been rude or condescending towards you in this discussion? Has anyone else in this thread?
I think the most insulting part is that you couldn't even make a coherent point with this sarcasm. Are you trying to poke fun at random numbers in the imperial system? Arbitrary values in general? Americans who eat roast beef?
But don't go around telling the world what a "modern" society you are when you are still stuck measuring things with this quaint system that the rest of the world has modernized away from. it's really kinda cute, you know.
Oh you mean how you still have a queen as your sovereign? Or how you mandate bilingual education for a stark minority of French Canadians? Or how the United Kingdom still has an unwritten constitution? Or how half of Europe still has an official state church? Or how the French presume guilt rather than innocence? Or how Italy is still run by political machines?
Modernity is always a hindsight judgment. What should matter is if the system is not working for the people who use it. With private industries transitioning manufacturing to metric, the biggest argument in favor of the metric system is moot. The question then comes down to whether or not you are better positioned to judge what other people need or want.
What sarcasm? I was being quite serious. I actually and honestly agree with you that it won't make the vast majority of anyone's life easier if they use metric. I was being a little silly with the numbers, true... but it was not meant as sarcasm. I was born in the US, and was there until I was in grade 5. I moved to Canada when it was still using Imperial measures. And I mean the real Imperial, as in British Empire, not the slightly different American versions. And you are entirely correct - I coped just fine with gallons and ounces, feet and miles, etc etc. The biggest problem I had was converting from Imperial to American gallons/quarts/pints - and trying to figure out if my measuring cup was made in the Canada - i.e. true Imperial, or in the USA. And if it was made in the USA, was it calibrated in American sized units or was it calibrated for export and in true Imperial. As a photographer mixing up developers, fixers, etc, these questions were important. I swapped to metric volumes soon as I could for this reason - not because I couldn't work in ounces, etc.
Guilty as charged... though we like to think being bilingual is a good and modern thing. We also have quarter of our population that hasn't signed onto our constitution (unlike the UK, we at least wrote ours down - we just don't yet have it fully ratified yet - sigh)
Yes, I was poking some buttons there. It's one that is sure to get most Americans into a lather, too. My point about the "claiming to be modern", is that the USA spends a lot of time telling the rest of the world how great it is...and it is in many ways, no argument. But there are some areas where the rest of world is, um, "greater." (Tongue In Cheek!) It is annoying to the rest of the world when Americans travel and think our metric signage is "quaint"... (First hand experience). I believe that, by definition, it's not our signage that is quaint.
ps.... one of the defining characteristics of being Canadian is our smugness. Deserved or not, we already know it.
Daily necessity? Is measuring your foot a daily necessity? I don't get what you're trying to say here.
Some defenders of the Imperial system tell us it's handy to measure in body parts, presumably because you all have them. But what percentage of US citizens honestly have foot-long feet? Perhaps half a foot should be called a penis? (Credit to rdowns for that idea.)
Can't you concede that there is a benefit to having a single 'standard'? The two are only compatible in the sense that you can convert between them if you know the conversion factors. Every time someone has to do this, they are wasting time. Multiply that over 311 million people and you have an awful lot of wasted time!
You multiply or divide by a multiple of 10 every time you need to convert from one derivative unit to another. 'Kilo' means a multiple of 1000 over the base unit. So if I need to convert from metres to kilometres, I simply divide by 1000. Now, that happens to be very easy to do. Why? Because our whole system of counting is base 10! It's as easy as moving the decimal point three places.
It doesn't matter what operations you're doing — multiplication, division, addition, or subtraction — it's as easy as manipulating any decimal number. You never, ever have to remember odd conversion factors to convert between different units and fractions thereof.
I do a bit of carpentry and other work around the house. From time to time I'm buying lengths of timber, so I may be multiplying a required length over the number of lengths required, or adding up different lengths. If you're a cook, no doubt there are times when the recipe serves 4 people, but you need to cook for 6 or 8 or something, so you have to multiply measurements. When I used to go swimming at my local Olympic sized pool (which is 50 metres long) it was easy to calculate how far I swam. 20 laps = 1000 metres = 1 kilometre. I mean, I could go on and on giving you everyday examples if you want me to, but I think you're capable of doing that yourself.
I don't think Tomorrow ever responded to my earlier hypothetical, so let me put the same question to you:
Okay, imagine for a moment that one of the US states wasn't using the decimal system for counting. Instead, they had a system where letters were used to designate certain amounts, similar to Roman numerals, but instead of having a base of 10, it varied. So perhaps A is equal to 12. Then three As is equal to B. Two Bs is equal to C. 22 Bs is equal to a D, and so on with this kind of inconsistency. You have a friend living in this state who claims that the system works just fine — he spent many years studying this system and even more using it in his line of work and can't see why he or anyone else in the state should have to learn this dangfangled decimal system. What would you say to your friend?
But (1) it's not your first 'language' so to speak, so you're no doubt less comfortable with it, and (2) if no one else around you speaks the same 'language' it doesn't help you communicate with them. This is why we have 'standards'.
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Because the USA is full of too many dumb MFs. That is your answer. We should have been using it 20 years ago.
The thing is that this isn't rocket science. We don't need to be precise in our everyday lives. When the last time someone asked you how big something was did you say:
"Looks about 40 centimeters" or "Here let me grab meter stick... It's 42.74 centimeters"
Yeah, I thought you'd say the first one.
A foot is about a foot. We don't need to be precise in our everyday lives.
If you don't travel and are happy with your local standards just don't worry and be happy.
Day to day usage varies from person to person.
If you live in the USA close to a border town, and for whatever reason cross the border to Canada or Mexico, you can face day to day things like getting a ticket because your car has only mph and you don't have a good sense of a speed limit in the metric or SI system.
Tipping a waiter is another nonsense calculation that you make daily: in Mexico 10%, in the US 10-15-18-20%, so how easy is using 10%?
If you like baseball and you are interested in getting a better understanding of the stats from a Latin American baseball player, how he was performing in his home town you might find the metric system, pitcher speed in Km/h and how far the home runs were in meters.
I don't practice diving or anything like it, but one thing that was very easy to remember is how far you go down and how the pressure increases: 1 atmospheric pressure every 10 meters. So 14.7 psi every X feet?
Most of the medicines nowadays are in milligrams.
Day to day usage varies from person to person.
If you live in the USA close to a border town, and for whatever reason cross the border to Canada or Mexico, you can face day to day things like getting a ticket because your car has only mph and you don't have a good sense of a speed limit in the metric or SI system.
Tipping a waiter is another nonsense calculation that you make daily: in Mexico 10%, in the US 10-15-18-20%, so how easy is using 10%?
If you like baseball and you are interested in getting a better understanding of the stats from a Latin American baseball player, how he was performing in his home town you might find the metric system, pitcher speed in Km/h and how far the home runs were in meters.
I don't practice diving or anything like it, but one thing that was very easy to remember is how far you go down and how the pressure increases: 1 atmospheric pressure every 10 meters. So 14.7 psi every X feet?
Most of the medicines nowadays are in milligrams.
In my mind, two main reasons
1) We're America, and conforming to the rest of the world is not something we ever really want to do
2) A ton of American infrastructure (like manufacturing, etc) is setup using our system, which means it'll be a huge cost investment to transition everything over
There are other fields of endeavour somewhere between 'rocket science' your 'everyday life' as an American teen. There are designers, architects, engineers, builders, cabinet makers, manufacturers, chefs, surveyors, and many others who, believe it or not, do need to be fairly precise with their measurements. And sometimes, one needs to do calculations with those measurements.
To answer your question, when somebody asks me how big something is, it really depends on what they're referring to. Depending on the context, my answer may be any of the following:
a. About 40 centimetres
b. Let me grab a tape measure
c. None of your business!
I implement metric where I can at work. It irks me to no end that the crystals and frequencies / wavelengths I work with are all metric - and yet people want to stick with SAE on every other part just because it's easier... ?
I would also love to own just one set of tools, allen wrenches, sockets, box, ect... It would be so much cheaper not having to keep both units on-hand. And my toolbox would be half the weight!
Got a chuckle talking to my dad a while back, who is in his 70s.... told me his science teacher said that USA would be using metric before he graduated high school... My science teacher said exactly the same thing, decades later... If there is one positive to China becoming the next superpower - maybe they'll pressure us into making the switch at last?
I would also love to own just one set of tools, allen wrenches, sockets, box, ect... It would be so much cheaper not having to keep both units on-hand. And my toolbox would be half the weight!
Got a chuckle talking to my dad a while back, who is in his 70s.... told me his science teacher said that USA would be using metric before he graduated high school... My science teacher said exactly the same thing, decades later... If there is one positive to China becoming the next superpower - maybe they'll pressure us into making the switch at last?
Funny, I'm getting the impression that a lot of the american posters seem to have a bad taste for SI because they learned it science class and see it at doing science.
The only argument for imperial is that it's already in place people are used to it. I think it could be implemented slowly but surely, starting with trivial things like the volume of a coke can...
http://xkcd.com/526/
The only argument for imperial is that it's already in place people are used to it. I think it could be implemented slowly but surely, starting with trivial things like the volume of a coke can...
http://xkcd.com/526/
That is the impression you got?
I have nothing against SI at all. What I fail to see is the need to revamp everything when it really is not needed
That is not the only argument but is a big hurdle nonetheless. I suggest reading CalBoy's responses on some of the benefits with the imperial system
Honestly, I'd say it looked like about 16 inches.
I've been reading this thread with interest and as someone pointed out earlier, it's interesting how we Canadians are pretty well entrenched in both sets of units.
I prefer to do construction work in inches and feet, for example to measure out the length of a 2x4 (aha! imperial!) or to cut plywood, for example.
I prefer imperial when cooking. Give me pounds and cups and teaspoons please, and tell me to set my oven to 375 degrees F, not 190 degrees C, so I can bake a 1/2 dozen eggs. Yet we buy our milk in liters...
When I set up a new Word document, it's on an 8.5x11" sheet of paper with 1.5" margins on the edges.
But when I want to hear the weather forecast, I want degrees C. 0 degrees C means it's cold (water freezes). Anything below 0 means it's really cold. Above 0 is good. The higher the better (but not above about 35 degrees, which is heat wave weather. Anything over 40? YIKES!)