Metric system in the usa

[dukebound85]

Talking about the cost of swtiching, I might just add… Stepping out onto the moon cost a pretty penny too. I guess beating the Soviets to bragging rights in space was more important than implementing common sense on the ground.

Common sense would dictate not fixing something that doesn't really need to be fixed

If corporations see the benefit of it to their bottom line...great. No one is stopping them from changing

Why you seem so adament that the Imperial system is horrible for the masses is quite befuddling to me to be honest

Yes, there are merits to the metric system. There are also merits to not changing. Regardless, if change happens, it will be because it just evolved that way.

 

[CalBoy]

Talking about the cost of swtiching, I might just add… Stepping out onto the moon cost a pretty penny too. I guess beating the Soviets to bragging rights in space was more important than implementing common sense on the ground.

What does that have to do with anything?

Even if this was somehow relevant, yes, it probably was more important to achieve a scientific feat at that point in time. The Apollo missions created generations of people who became interested in science, raised educational standards nationwide, and brought forth thousands of advancements that we still use in our daily lives.

Hang on… You're not distancing yourself from the illiterate masses now? I thought you agreed with them?

Not with their reasoning. My scientific literacy is pretty good, and I don't have an inherent mistrust of science which many Americans do. This makes them resist things that are advocated by the scientific community, whether it's evolution, vaccination, or evidence-based medicine. So when scientists clamor about changing to the metric system, it raises two questions in the minds of people; 1) Why should I trust this person? and 2) Is the change really necessary?

I don't doubt scientists when they advocate for the metric system, in science. Howeve, since most of the advantages of the metric system are really reserved to the sciences, the question of whether or not everything in life should be metric really isn't a scientific one; it's an economic and convenience one. In my daily life I do not need to easily convert between the mass of water and its volume or take temperatures relative to the boiling point of water.

Well, I assume the US population ain't getting any smaller the longer you put it off.

No, but that doesn't mean that we should transition now either. It all depends on the ease of transition. This is why I think long term transitioning is the only real option available. Do things piecemeal in order of greatest economic return, and if there is no economic return on a particular item, forget it. There's no point in switching to something that is going only cost money; at some point there needs to be a positive return for it to make sense.

 

[snberk103]

...
I don't doubt scientists when they advocate for the metric system, in science. Howeve, since most of the advantages of the metric system are really reserved to the sciences, the question of whether or not everything in life should be metric really isn't a scientific one; it's an economic and convenience one. ....
This is why I think long term transitioning is the only real option available. Do things piecemeal in order of greatest economic return, and if there is no economic return on a particular item, forget it. There's no point in switching to something that is going only cost money; at some point there needs to be a positive return for it to make sense.

Actually, the more I think about it... the more I've come 'round to your thinking. Living in a country that has (mostly) gone metric, the more children in the US that are taught a system that no-one else in the world uses makes a lot of economic sense - for us. So please, keep on giving your children hurdles to overcome should they wish to compete in the rest of the world. It's good for the rest of us.

 

[ehoui]

Actually, the more I think about it... the more I've come 'round to your thinking. Living in a country that has (mostly) gone metric, the more children in the US that are taught a system that no-one else in the world uses makes a lot of economic sense - for us. So please, keep on giving your children hurdles to overcome should they wish to compete in the rest of the world. It's good for the rest of us.

There is no hurdle. American students in Science and Engineering programs are able to do both without problems. Maybe being able to handle multiple systems give us a competitive edge....

 

[CalBoy]

Actually, the more I think about it... the more I've come 'round to your thinking. Living in a country that has (mostly) gone metric, the more children in the US that are taught a system that no-one else in the world uses makes a lot of economic sense - for us. So please, keep on giving your children hurdles to overcome should they wish to compete in the rest of the world. It's good for the rest of us.

It isn't the metric system (or lack thereof) that's holding our children back; it's a lack of emphasis on science and math on the part of schools, parents, and society as a whole.

We learn the metric system in school concurrently with imperial units, and at the end of the day no one is unable to grasp the idea of multiplying by 10. What American kids can't tell you is how to find the focus of a parabola or why that would be important when designing headlights. That's where the problem is.

There is no hurdle. American students in Science and Engineering programs are able to do both without problems. Maybe being able to handle multiple systems give us a competitive edge....

There is already decent evidence to show that bilingual children perform better in school and in life (the idea being that more neural connections help intelligence), so I don't see why learning a second system of measures would be all that catastrophic.

 

[snberk103]

There is no hurdle. American students in Science and Engineering programs are able to do both without problems. Maybe being able to handle multiple systems give us a competitive edge....

Which is why, of course, US News reports that 6 out of the top 10 universities for engineering and IT are not in the US? Once upon a time the US owned that list.

 

[ehoui]

Which is why, of course, US News reports that 6 out of the top 10 universities for engineering and IT are not in the US? Once upon a time the US owned that list.

Fine, but prove to me it's because of the metric system.

 

[snberk103]

Fine, but prove to me it's because of the metric system.

I don't know that it does.... I was merely rebutting the point that learning the Imperial measures gave US kids a competitive edge.

 

[ehoui]

I don't know that it does.... I was merely rebutting the point that learning the Imperial measures gave US kids a competitive edge.

I don't think it matters. If you are in an Science or Engineering, unit conversions are the least of your worries. That was my point. Metric or not-metric in our daily lives have little bearing on those in rigorous math-oriented disciplines. I might be wrong, but I'd like to hear why.

 

[kalsta]

What does that have to do with anything?

Even if this was somehow relevant …

You're the one who is always talking about the financial cost and economic return, as though it's all about money. I was just having a bit of fun with that topic. Don't take it too seriously.

Not with their reasoning. My scientific literacy is pretty good, and I don't have an inherent mistrust of science which many Americans do.

Gosh, then you won't be able to plead ignorance on judgement day!

I don't doubt scientists when they advocate for the metric system, in science. Howeve, since most of the advantages of the metric system are really reserved to the sciences, the question of whether or not everything in life should be metric really isn't a scientific one; it's an economic and convenience one. In my daily life I do not need to easily convert between the mass of water and its volume or take temperatures relative to the boiling point of water.

So you're saying that science has nothing to do with everyday life? Cake for the elite and bread for everyone else??

I see no good sense in that. If the metric system was intrinsically difficult to use in everyday life, then maybe you would have a point. But it's not — it's actually much, much easier to use once you learn it.

You say that you have no need for it in your personal life… but you know, I think you'd find it's a bit like an iPhone in that respect. I kept my old Nokia 5110 phone well past its use-by date because I honestly didn't have a need for anything beyond making and receiving phone calls. When the iPhone came out in Australia, I snapped one up because I wanted to have one less gadget in my pocket (iPod and phone) and now I don't know how I did without all those incredibly useful apps. The metric system, as many people here keep pointing out, enables some pretty easy mental arithmetic. You'd use it if you had it.

No, but that doesn't mean that we should transition now either. It all depends on the ease of transition. This is why I think long term transitioning is the only real option available. Do things piecemeal in order of greatest economic return, and if there is no economic return on a particular item, forget it. There's no point in switching to something that is going only cost money; at some point there needs to be a positive return for it to make sense.

You say it's about the 'ease of transition' but in the next breath you argue that it's all about 'economic return'. Personally I think you're clutching at straws to defend the fact that your country is behind the rest of the world in its ability to institute any kind of consistency with its system of measurements. But, we can agree to disagree.

 

[snberk103]

I don't think it matters. If you are in an Science or Engineering, unit conversions are the least of your worries. That was my point. Metric or not-metric in our daily lives have little bearing on those in rigorous math-oriented disciplines. I might be wrong, but I'd like to hear why.

Yes, you are correct - once you are in science or engineering. But how many children never get there because of a system that over-complicates even simple calculations. All it takes is a couple of bad years/teachers/experiences to put a kid totally off of math. Truly brilliant kids will likely overcome these set-backs, but most kids are not brilliant.... they are good to competent. And good to competent engineers are needed as much as the ones who put landers on the Mars... oh, wait wasn't there a problem with one of those that involved non-metric measurements? (what is the smiley for "snarky" and "tongue in cheek"?)

 

[neko girl]

I don't know what a centimeter is when I'm eyeballing something.. and I don't want to. I run in miles, I measure in inches, I weigh in pounds. I'm not doing conversions to kilos or megas all the time in real life, so um..

Well.

I do more conversions metric to imperial than imperial to imperial. The imperial system isn't that hard to use, and I don't think it's mattered before what the rest of the world does anyway.

 

[SidBala]

The question of units is not really relevant if you are not in a science/engineering field.


I am an engineering student in Canada. We solve problems in both units. But mostly we stick to SI.

The imperial system is, quite honestly, a complete mess. Most of the time, we solve the problems in SI and then convert the results to metric.

Most professors do not bother to ask questions in imperial. Solving the problem is 1000 times harder than the conversion between units.

Sure, people who already have a feel for the imperial units will prefer imperial. But if they had grown up with metric, they would prefer that.

 

[McGiord]

Who thinks that what happens locally is what only matters is still 'living' in medieval times.
Your so beloved Apple products are produced using mm and fractions of them, and then their specs are "translated" to the proper local units for marketing and local people understanding.
We all live in the same planet, but we are so different.
Like nowadays communicating in English is the common international language, some centuries/years ago was Latin, or French, Portuguese, Spanish, German, Mongol, Chinese, etc...
Similarly with the units of measurement, depending on the region they will become popular or the well known standard that most of the people understand and agrees upon using by default.
Having a clear communication is a key for progress, and even two people think they are speaking in the same language they understand two different things.
What units are used in the Olympic games?
Formula 1 ?


So when you travel it doesn't matter? How many liters of beer are you buying?
How high that building or mountain is?
How far places are?
How much fuel will you need? How much money will you need?
What the temperature is where you are going?
If you do poorly with this basic things, how do you handle currency conversions, when you buy things? You are missing a lit of good things that are out there waiting for you, just because you want to stick with your localized thinking.

 

[hazza.jockel]

Adopting the metric system doesn't mean other more informal units of measurement will disappear from popular usage. In Australia you order a schooner or middy of beer. In some pubs it's a pint. Teaspoons won't suddenly disappear from your kitchen or your recipes. Fear not.

Exactly what I was thinking. Although glass sizes differ across states in Australia as well. Here in WA if i go for a pub I'll either ask for a pint (a big glass) or a middi, handle, pot etc (small glass) or a schooner (tall glass slightly smaller then a pint) although never have asked for a schooner and see no need.

 

[ehoui]

Yes, you are correct - once you are in science or engineering. But how many children never get there because of a system that over-complicates even simple calculations. All it takes is a couple of bad years/teachers/experiences to put a kid totally off of math. Truly brilliant kids will likely overcome these set-backs, but most kids are not brilliant.... they are good to competent. And good to competent engineers are needed as much as the ones who put landers on the Mars... oh, wait wasn't there a problem with one of those that involved non-metric measurements? (what is the smiley for "snarky" and "tongue in cheek"?)

I can understand the intuitive justification of this argument, but I'd like to see something more rigorous before I accept it. My own intuitive sense is that learning measurement systems, while important to early child development, don't, in of themselves (i.e., imperial or metric), have a causal relationship with math and science success (or failure) in school. I think there are other much stronger factors to success in math and engineering. One example: "male malaise" in the UK and the USA (a general problem in elementary and secondary schools); also, public school math programs are not rigorous and set the bar relatively low.

 

[(marc)]

Time to rename a Quarter Pounder into a "Royale with cheese"!

 

[kalsta]

Exactly what I was thinking. Although glass sizes differ across states in Australia as well. Here in WA if i go for a pub I'll either ask for a pint (a big glass) or a middi, handle, pot etc (small glass) or a schooner (tall glass slightly smaller then a pint) although never have asked for a schooner and see no need.

I've been to WA a couple of times… Had fish and chips with friends on the docks at Freo… all very nice! But I nearly fell over when they handed me the beers and told me the price. Don't ask me if it came in a pint or a schooner though. All I remember was it was expensive and I didn't even enjoy it. It was Redback I think — made with wheat, and not my cup of tea.

What were we talking about again?

 

[kalsta]

Time to rename a Quarter Pounder into a "Royale with cheese"!

They do actually call them Quarter Pounder's in Australia. And they insist on calling the chips 'fries' too!

Come to think of it… isn't it a bit odd that Americans attribute 'fries' to the French, but refuse to adopt their metric system? Go figure.

 

[kalsta]

I don't know what a centimeter is when I'm eyeballing something.. and I don't want to. I run in miles, I measure in inches, I weigh in pounds. I'm not doing conversions to kilos or megas all the time in real life, so um..

Well.

I do more conversions metric to imperial than imperial to imperial. The imperial system isn't that hard to use, and I don't think it's mattered before what the rest of the world does anyway.

Neko Girl, it looks like my first reply to your comment got censored for its reference to a song from Team America, so I'll try again without said reference…

You run in miles? That's impressive. I run in metres. After that, I'm stuffed. BTW, no one really talks about 'megas', unless it's megabytes. Increasing computer storage is teaching us a lot of fun new prefixes — giga, and now tera have finally entered popular usage too. You have those too right? So you see people, you're already learning the metric system and you didn't even know it! The rest we could probably teach you in about 10 minutes if you have the time?

 

[McGiord]

They do actually call them Quarter Pounder's in Australia. And they insist on calling the chips 'fries' too!

Come to think of it… isn't it a bit odd that Americans attribute 'fries' to the French, but refuse to adopt their metric system? Go figure.

Well they are not really french:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_fries

 

[Tomorrow]

BTW, no one really talks about 'megas', unless it's megabytes.

Or megaWatts. Look into large generators and data center infrastructure.

 

[snberk103]

I can understand the intuitive justification of this argument, but I'd like to see something more rigorous before I accept it. My own intuitive sense is that learning measurement systems, while important to early child development, don't, in of themselves (i.e., imperial or metric), have a causal relationship with math and science success (or failure) in school. I think there are other much stronger factors to success in math and engineering. One example: "male malaise" in the UK and the USA (a general problem in elementary and secondary schools); also, public school math programs are not rigorous and set the bar relatively low.

Tell you what ..... you go and find 20 kids in grade 3 or 4. Teach 10 of them how to multiply 3 13/16" by 3, and then teach the other 10 how to multiply 96.8 by 3. Then see how many from each group decide to take up social work, or teaching history, becoming a ski instructor as a profession .

 

[ehoui]

Tell you what ..... you go and find 20 kids in grade 3 or 4. Teach 10 of them how to multiply 3 13/16" by 3, and then teach the other 10 how to multiply 96.8 by 3. Then see how many from each group decide to take up social work, or teaching history, becoming a ski instructor as a profession .

No, that's not how it works -- YOU are supposed to do that to support your argument, not me . Anyway, I understand what you are saying, but I respectfully disagree because I think there are more important factors (for which there are studies). Cheers!

 

[Zombie Acorn]

Seriously it takes maybe a couple months to adjust to new systems of measure, it's really not that big of a deal and it certainly doesn't require any massive brain power to use metric vs. Imperial. The only preference I still have for imperial is food based. Can i have 500 grams of sliced ham? It just sounds wrong.

Also they teach both systems in grade school etc at least when I was in school.