Microsoft Announces Surface 2 and Surface Pro 2

[skottichan]

I wonder why? It's much more expensive, less powerful, has far worse specs and looks worse designed.

Mostly because Wacom's first party support. Plus there's been chatter on the Wacom forums that there will be an app/function that will allow the Companion to plug into a Mac/PC and work as a standard Cintiq.

Plus price wise, the entry Android model is only $400 more than a Cintiq 13HD.

The idea of being able to take a Cintiq with me to a meeting for presentation, then being able to use it as a truly mobile Cintiq when I'm on my laptop (because even the 13" Cintiq is not portable at all), would be worth the $400 upsell.

 

[BC2009]

You feel bad for a company of a couple billionaires, many millionaires, and mostly 6-figure salaries?

Not bad in that way, but bad because I think Microsoft is more likely to produce decent products than Google and having a decent competitor is good for Apple. Google produces products that only "good enough" and then competes on price. Microsoft tends to have some decent product but poor execution.

I much prefer the way that Microsoft competes these days than how Google competes. Google is the scary monster that Microsoft was 18 years ago.

 

[Arfdog]

Not bad in that way, but bad because I think Microsoft is more likely to produce decent products than Google and having a decent competitor is good for Apple. Google produces products that only "good enough" and then competes on price. Microsoft tends to have some decent product but poor execution.

I much prefer the way that Microsoft competes these days than how Google competes. Google is the scary monster that Microsoft was 18 years ago.

While I think they make competent hardware, I still think MS doesn't get it just like 18 years ago. Only now it's starting to bite them because they still think people love Windows.

 

[CKA]

I recently started a new job and had to leaver my ipad behind. I was one of the blind fanboys and thought the world would end without my ipad. I was ready to go into the apple store and pick up a personal replacement the following weekend.
Day 1 of my job and I was offered a Win8 laptop or Surface Pro. I chose the Pro and was already to bash away at this ipad wannabe. And then I started to use at work.
The first thing I noticed was my surface was my computer. I did not need a logmein, Citrix receiver, or other app to get to my files. Wherever I took my surface I was able to get to all my files and secured drives. When outside of work a quick click secured a VPN connection and I was again accessing my full computer.
What I hated about citirx receiver and others were the lag time, the screen size distortions and the need for another computer.
The office suite may not be optimized for a touch screen but the stylus/pen works great and the keyboard has a useful trackpad. I also think OneNote is the most underrated and poorly advertised software at Microsoft.
I use a belkin docking station at work that has dual 24inch monitors, Logitech keyboard and mouse, and all the other accessories plugs needed.
I only complaint has been battery power and lack of backlit keyboard. Now addressed with Pro2.
I agree that Microsoft should stop trying to compare RT with the ipad. The ipad really has no true competition. They should focus on where they have their stronghold and that is in corporate America. This can provide a reduce cost of ownership for IT departments too.
I not trying to convert anyone with this post, just please keep an open mind.
If this was produced by Apple and called the iBusinessPad, I think many of you would be posting about this "great" product"

Honestly speaking, I think that's what people predict when iPad was lanched few years back, weak cpu, small memory, small storage, not flexbile ..... But then people found that actually they don't need that much powerful devices for 90% of their daily computing tasks (HOME USE). Then many people target for tablet and less consider laptop.. For 'OFFICE WORK', I definitely agree that Window is the only choice (Actually NO WINDOW 8, it's not for daily office work), but for home use, it's another story. Personally, I still do a lot of photoshop work and occationally MS-Office works at home with my laptop. But I would say 90% at home I spend the time with my iPad for some light-weight work like Facebook, internet-surfing, emails etc.

 

[haruhiko]

Honestly speaking, I think that's what people predict when iPad was lanched few years back, weak cpu, small memory, small storage, not flexbile ..... But then people found that actually they don't need that much powerful devices for 90% of their daily computing tasks (HOME USE). Then many people target for tablet and less consider laptop.. For 'OFFICE WORK', I definitely agree that Window is the only choice (Actually NO WINDOW 8, it's not for daily office work), but for home use, it's another story. Personally, I still do a lot of photoshop work and occationally MS-Office works at home with my laptop. But I would say 90% at home I spend the time with my iPad for some light-weight work like Facebook, internet-surfing, emails etc.

Guess what, people do need more powerful devices. The iPad 1 was really lacking (esp. due to the 256MB RAM - that's why it doesn't even support iOS 6 [the iPhone 3GS has a much lower resolution screen so 256MB RAM was still fine]), and the sales number was not that huge. But the iPad 2 was truly amazing - the first dual core iOS device, with a much thinner and lighter body but still amazing battery life, the first iOS device with a white front bezel, the first iPad with cameras, etc. etc. The iPad 3 then introduced a breakthrough super high definition 2048 x 1536 retina display that is better than every other tablet on the market. The iPad 4 fixed most problem of the iPad 3 with a much more powerful CPU/GPU, and later added an 128GB option.

You can see Apple gradually improves the tech spec of the iPad, and they are very often at the cutting edge of consumer technology. Tech Specs do matter when it improves user experience. Speed is a very important user experience too.

 

[Wiesenlooser]

Mostly because Wacom's first party support. Plus there's been chatter on the Wacom forums that there will be an app/function that will allow the Companion to plug into a Mac/PC and work as a standard Cintiq.

Plus price wise, the entry Android model is only $400 more than a Cintiq 13HD.

The idea of being able to take a Cintiq with me to a meeting for presentation, then being able to use it as a truly mobile Cintiq when I'm on my laptop (because even the 13" Cintiq is not portable at all), would be worth the $400 upsell.

I have heard a total different tone from the design community. People were really negative about the companion, because of the bad battery life, the horrible price and probably the sub- par screen.

if you look at bang for the buck the Surface pro 2 seems superior to the companion.

 

[spinedoc77]

I agree that Microsoft should stop trying to compare RT with the ipad. The ipad really has no true competition. They should focus on where they have their stronghold and that is in corporate America.

MS DOES have a viable direct competitor to the ipad, that's the atom powered tablets, but MS doesn't directly produce a hardware model of the atom. This is the most puzzling aspect of MS strategy, the one platform which can compete with the ipad in EVERY single category (except apps, but that's arguable IMO) is the one that MS completely ignores. Isn't that just incredibly odd? If MS made an atom powered surface and pushed it hard I'll bet they would get a decent portion of the market.

 

[twoodcc]

i did see part of the keynote, and they had 6k video editing on the Surface Pro 2? it's only a 1080P screen though?

 

[KevinN206]

Of course you don't know what to say - it's obvious from the junk postings. Listen: If you can't understand why 4:3 is superior to 16:9 on a tablet for web browsing, perhaps you should buy the surface 2 and make everyone else believe the hype.

Come back here in 6 months time and eat your own words buddy.

One use case that's more difficult with a 4:3 is using the browser WHILE doing something else at the same time, such as watch a complete episode of Law & Order on casually browsing the web. This may not work for everyone, but I like to watch short episodes of shows while browsing the web. You might say that I can't really multitask doing two things at the same time, but I can follow the story just fine, at least for me.

Here, I am typing a response back docked to a keyboard as to why I prefer 16:9 for a 10.1" tablet (Dell XPS 10) as opposed to 4:3. For me to type this on a touchscreen keyboard would probably take 10+ minutes. Anyway, the ability to use two apps at the same time is very useful for me.

 

[spinedoc77]

One use case that's more difficult with a 4:3 is using the browser WHILE doing something else at the same time, such as watch a complete episode of Law & Order on casually browsing the web. This may not work for everyone, but I like to watch short episodes of shows while browsing the web. You might say that I can't really multitask doing two things at the same time, but I can follow the story just fine, at least for me.

Here, I am typing a response back docked to a keyboard as to why I prefer 16:9 for a 10.1" tablet (Dell XPS 10) as opposed to 4:3. For me to type this on a touchscreen keyboard would probably take 10+ minutes. Anyway, the ability to use two apps at the same time is very useful for me.

Image

It's definitely subjective and not etched in stone like some would have us believe. I prefer the 16:9 MUCH more, but primarily because I rarely use my tablet in portrait mode, the same was true when I had an ipad. I don't understand why you would use it in portrait mode, but once again that's just my opinion. I like landscape because you can see much more horizontally, it also looks better for movies, and of course there is the advantage of running apps side by side, oh wait the ipad doesn't do that.

Just about the only thing I use portrait for is either taking handwriting notes, which the ipad does not do natively, or navigation since I use heads up mode and like to see more of what's in front of me.

 

[skottichan]

I have heard a total different tone from the design community. People were really negative about the companion, because of the bad battery life, the horrible price and probably the sub- par screen.

if you look at bang for the buck the Surface pro 2 seems superior to the companion.

The battery life can't be as bad as the Surface Pro 1's. From what I've been reading of the SP2, the pressure sensitivity is half of that of the Companion. It uses the same display as the Cintiq 13HD, which is color calibrated similar to its larger siblings. It's also anti-glare, like the rest of the Cintiq line.

Several of the comic pros I know are abandoning their Surface Pros for the Cintiq Companion.

It could be because of brand recognition. Like how Apple's more expensive iPad continues to outsell the allegedly technically superior Surface RT.

 

[fourthtunz]

You can't do work if the software doesn't exist for the ecosystem. And ARM software is way too simple for a lot of people.

I can't do any meaningful CAD work on ARM. I can't do any type of music creation on ARM because all the software feels like toys for microwave DJ's. I can't game anything AAA quality. But I can do all this on x86

And you CAN connect a Mackie to a Surface Pro through a dock or USB in. You'll be limited by the # of simultaneous channels you're recording because it's ultrabook specced but it's totally doable.

I have 2 keyboard controllers, a Kaosscilator, an Octapad, 4 channel interface, and an APC40 connected to my Surface pro through a USB3 dock, and my Pro has both Studio One and Ableton installed. You cannot do stuff like this on an iPad or any ARM based tablet for lack of power

I'm just saying that one man's work is another man's play.
There are lots more apps for the iPad, and for almost no money you can make a lot of music with it. I think the whole point of the ipad is that you can use it without connecting to anything, Ie the kaossilator app for iPad at least that's why I like it.
the mixer I was talking about was the mackie dl1608, for wireless mixing with an iPad. http://www.mackie.com/products/dlseries/

 

[Squilly]

I own the current RT and, despite performance, it's a solid device. No need to bash it. I don't believe in all the negative reviews it has and praise it. The performance increase is definitely a step in the right direction. Can't wait for 8.1 release. Will probably buy the Pro 2 as well.

 

[Liquorpuki]

MS DOES have a viable direct competitor to the ipad, that's the atom powered tablets, but MS doesn't directly produce a hardware model of the atom. This is the most puzzling aspect of MS strategy, the one platform which can compete with the ipad in EVERY single category (except apps, but that's arguable IMO) is the one that MS completely ignores. Isn't that just incredibly odd? If MS made an atom powered surface and pushed it hard I'll bet they would get a decent portion of the market.

The only reason I can think of is MS might be gifting the Atom market to its OEM's, hoping they come out with a branded hit. The OEM's aren't doing much of anything though.

 

[spinedoc77]

The only reason I can think of is MS might be gifting the Atom market to its OEM's, hoping they come out with a branded hit. The OEM's aren't doing much of anything though.

Yes, this has been my suspicion from the beginning.

 

[RedRaven571]

All I know is I'm sick of seeing the same Surface commercial 8 times in an evening.....

 

[twigman08]

Yeah but that article was about the PRO model, not the RT model so what you are saying is incorrect and the article is still not a good show of tech journalism. I don't believe MS has marketed the Pro next to the ipad anywhere, although I'm not 100% sure.

----------



What computer science type stuff, programming, applications, etc can you get done on an ipad versus a full windows computer? I'm honestly asking as I have not been to school for computer science and am curious. Are all those students with ipads actually doing computer science work, or are they just playing angry birds?

I brought the Computer Science major part in there to show that I am around engineering type students and honestly "tech nerds" all the time. That's the part of the campus I'm at most of the time, with me only having 2 classes on the main campus (the Engineering Department has their own "private" campus about 10 miles off main campus). I was just saying with me around tech nerds all the time I'd even expect tech nerds to have their hands on this so called "innovate" device.

My point was that their isn't a market for it at all still. Even the tech nerds haven't caught on to it.

 

[kenknotts]

Never understood these. The iPad worked because they were HALF the price of the cheapest Macbook. You can get a nicely equipped Windows laptop for like $300, why on earth would anyone pay $900 for one of these? Or even $500?

 

[spinedoc77]

Never understood these. The iPad worked because they were HALF the price of the cheapest Macbook. You can get a nicely equipped Windows laptop for like $300, why on earth would anyone pay $900 for one of these? Or even $500?

I don't get it. Seriously, I'm having an incredibly difficult time understanding why people say this. You can get a cheap laptop for the price of a tablet. You do understand a tablet and a laptop would be used differently, with the advantage that the surface can be used as a laptop.

I do understand that there is some kind of comparison to be made here, but in all fairness it should be surface Pro versus an Ultrabook, which will put them more at the same price. For $300 you ain't going to get a Haswell i5, not to mention the long list of other obvious stuff the surface Pro brings.

By your same rationale the windows Atom tablets are a THIRD of the price of the cheapest macbook, even with a keyboard. The way I see it is why would anyone pay $900 (realistically more like $1029 with cover) for a surface Pro when they could get an Atom windows tablet for $349. So in that sense I agree with you, I just don't see the comparison of a cheap $300 laptop though.

 

[s2mikey]

Guess what, people do need more powerful devices. The iPad 1 was really lacking (esp. due to the 256MB RAM - that's why it doesn't even support iOS 6 [the iPhone 3GS has a much lower resolution screen so 256MB RAM was still fine]), and the sales number was not that huge. But the iPad 2 was truly amazing - the first dual core iOS device, with a much thinner and lighter body but still amazing battery life, the first iOS device with a white front bezel, the first iPad with cameras, etc. etc. The iPad 3 then introduced a breakthrough super high definition 2048 x 1536 retina display that is better than every other tablet on the market. The iPad 4 fixed most problem of the iPad 3 with a much more powerful CPU/GPU, and later added an 128GB option.

You can see Apple gradually improves the tech spec of the iPad, and they are very often at the cutting edge of consumer technology. Tech Specs do matter when it improves user experience. Speed is a very important user experience too.

Well said - its one thing to keep hardware costs down or whatever when you dont need the "red meat" power but sometimes you do and Apple isnt always generous with system resources. Its like pulling teeth without novacaine to get more RAM or storage out of them. Or, more like pulling dollars from your wallet

As for the surface? I have to test our software on one at work and I really dont like the damned thing at all. Cant get used to it - and I am NOT an Apple "guy" so its not because im so used to mac OS or whatever. I just cant stand Windows 8 and the Surface tablets. Bleh.

 

[fourthtunz]

Never understood these. The iPad worked because they were HALF the price of the cheapest Macbook. You can get a nicely equipped Windows laptop for like $300, why on earth would anyone pay $900 for one of these? Or even $500?

Windows for one thing
You can do things with the ipad that you cannot do with a laptop or a surface.
I have an iPad and a laptop, two different missions but both can do work.
Not everyone wants the cheapest computer.
Apple may not sell the most computers but it is one of the most profitable
computer companies.

 

[Liquorpuki]

Never understood these. The iPad worked because they were HALF the price of the cheapest Macbook. You can get a nicely equipped Windows laptop for like $300, why on earth would anyone pay $900 for one of these? Or even $500?

iPad worked because it catered to a submarket that nobody except the budget netbook market catered to before - consumers that only need computers to do basic tasks - email, surfing, movies, yahoo games, etc. This ended up being most consumers, which is why the PC market is shrinking. Before that it was either buy a POS netbook or an expensive desktop. Now you had a premium branded computer with a mobile form factor, better build quality than a netbook, and a cheaper pricepoint than most desktops.

Surface Pro works because it caters to software power users and those embracing technological convergence. If all you do is surf and email and play candy crush and finger paint and run toy music apps that let you pretend you're a DJ, you're not gonna see any value in x86 Surface hardware. But if you're like me and wanna run Pro level DAW's, AAA games instead of freemium paywall crap, Matlab, CAD software, top of the line software suites instead of $2 budget substitutes, this device allows you to do it. It also allows you to replace your laptop, tablet, and (if you don't need a dedicated GPU) your desktop with one premium device.

 

[spinedoc77]

If all you do is surf and email and play candy crush and finger paint and run toy music apps that let you pretend you're a DJ, you're not gonna see any value in x86 Surface hardware.

Completely agree with everything you said. But this statement, I think many miss this point which is mistaken. A x86 tablet CAN and WILL do all these things if you so desire it to do those things. I've said it before, a windows tablet can be just as dumb as any dumb tablet out there, that's not an insult, just a fact that it can function just as well as an ipad at what the ipad excels at.

 

[fourthtunz]

Completely agree with everything you said. But this statement, I think many miss this point which is mistaken. A x86 tablet CAN and WILL do all these things if you so desire it to do those things. I've said it before, a windows tablet can be just as dumb as any dumb tablet out there, that's not an insult, just a fact that it can function just as well as an ipad at what the ipad excels at.

There are some apps that right now are not being done for android/windows.
And some of us would not use android/windows even if they were.
Hence why I'm on macrumors and not windows rumors.

 

[s2mikey]

Apple may not sell the most computers but it is one of the most profitable
computer companies.

Charging a LOT for fairly skimpy specs wil certainly add to the profitability. Just saying

Ive been seriously considering replacing one our aging laptops with an airbook or a powerbook/whatever they are called. But, damnit.... if you even dare to want extra RAM or storage.... yikes.

I know they make nice stuff and the asthetics/usability are worth something. I dont find their tablets overpriced because they are priced similarly to other tablets in their performance range. But, Apples laptops are simply too expensive for what you get. Ill wait for a sale or something.