I actually think that the arm model is good to keep. It allows Microsoft to change directions quickly if Apple decides to do OSX as an arm product in the future, or it allows them the ability to destroy Apple by making consumer windows arm only and have ridiculous battery life on a tiny device and have the same OS running on everything from PCs to phones to smart watches which is Apples ultimate desire. Really all it needs is an x86 emulator and for ARM cpus to be faster to power said emulator at reasonable speed (which will only take time and in fact they may already be powerful enough to do it now) and it could be fully functional to replace current windows for consumers similar to how Apple had to make a powerpc emulator to switch to intel in the past. If anything keeping Windows RT around could easily be what saves Microsoft and returns it to the market leader in the future. RISC just makes sense for consumer products, and Microsoft could keep standard x64 windows for enterprise
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Microsoft Announces Surface 2 and Surface Pro 2
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
I actually think that the arm model is good to keep. It allows Microsoft to change directions quickly if Apple decides to do OSX as an arm product in the future, or it allows them the ability to destroy Apple by making consumer windows arm only and have ridiculous battery life on a tiny device and have the same OS running on everything from PCs to phones to smart watches which is Apples ultimate desire. Really all it needs is an x86 emulator and for ARM cpus to be faster to power said emulator at reasonable speed (which will only take time and in fact they may already be powerful enough to do it now) and it could be fully functional to replace current windows for consumers similar to how Apple had to make a powerpc emulator to switch to intel in the past. If anything keeping Windows RT around could easily be what saves Microsoft and returns it to the market leader in the future. RISC just makes sense for consumer products, and Microsoft could keep standard x64 windows for enterprise
"Another failure"? "Lack of apps"?
Have you guys seen these things in person? I guess "it's not Apple, so it must be crap" right?
Surface Pro 2 IS a Windows 8 PC. You can run anything you want. Among the Windows ultraportable range, it beats pretty much all of them on build quality. The biggest issue with Surface Pro was battery life, and if they have sufficiently resolved it, this might just be what I buy to replace my iPad 3 (which is now experiencing Home button failures).
I agree RT is poorly done. It confuses people because hey, it looks like Windows, so it must be Windows. So how come I can't run my apps? I'm not surprised that one is a hard sell. But the Pro? An excellent machine.
Don't just take my word for it. Go and try one. (The Pro. Forget RT.)
Have you guys seen these things in person? I guess "it's not Apple, so it must be crap" right?
Surface Pro 2 IS a Windows 8 PC. You can run anything you want. Among the Windows ultraportable range, it beats pretty much all of them on build quality. The biggest issue with Surface Pro was battery life, and if they have sufficiently resolved it, this might just be what I buy to replace my iPad 3 (which is now experiencing Home button failures).
I agree RT is poorly done. It confuses people because hey, it looks like Windows, so it must be Windows. So how come I can't run my apps? I'm not surprised that one is a hard sell. But the Pro? An excellent machine.
Don't just take my word for it. Go and try one. (The Pro. Forget RT.)
I don't understand why it isn't selling well. Most people use there tablets for netflix email and browsing which it does well and it comes with a full office suite. I'm considering ditching my iPad mini for a surface rt because it be great for school. Not to mention it has moist of the top apps we want
Even if Apple didn't make a new iPad, they'd still sell like hotcakes and people will continue to ignore the Surface.
Huh? What's not to get about this situation?
The point is, Microsoft didn't successfully innovate here. They took a successful idea (the iPad) and tried to copy-cat it while using their own desktop OS, shoe-horned into something they thought more suitable for a touch-screen. Turns out people aren't that excited about buying one. And now, they upgraded the hardware specs instead of addressing any of the real reasons people didn't buy it the first time around.
To be fair, the magnetic keyboard/cover thing was rather innovative, and that got a lot of people's attention initially. But once people looked closer at the whole package, they weren't enthused anymore.
IMO, the bottom line is, Apple succeeded in this genre where others have failed because Apple maintains 2 different operating systems .... iOS for these devices, and OS X for the computers. If the iPad ran a full version of OS X or alternately, some lower priced model with a limited OS X that only ran a few included apps? Yeah, it would have failed too.
The point is, Microsoft didn't successfully innovate here. They took a successful idea (the iPad) and tried to copy-cat it while using their own desktop OS, shoe-horned into something they thought more suitable for a touch-screen. Turns out people aren't that excited about buying one. And now, they upgraded the hardware specs instead of addressing any of the real reasons people didn't buy it the first time around.
To be fair, the magnetic keyboard/cover thing was rather innovative, and that got a lot of people's attention initially. But once people looked closer at the whole package, they weren't enthused anymore.
IMO, the bottom line is, Apple succeeded in this genre where others have failed because Apple maintains 2 different operating systems .... iOS for these devices, and OS X for the computers. If the iPad ran a full version of OS X or alternately, some lower priced model with a limited OS X that only ran a few included apps? Yeah, it would have failed too.
Microsoft is hell bent on shoving the "it's a tablet and a laptop all in one" device down our throats. Haven't they figured out yet that its not working? There is a niche market that wants true productivity on a tablet. Everyone else decided a long time ago that tablets are mostly for consumption, games and light productivity. People would rather have a thin and light device that gets great battery life. And my guess is people who use Windows all day at work don't really care to keep using it when they get home. Microsoft is too late to this party. iPads and the BYOD culture have infiltrated the enterprise and there's no turning back.
Here is the number #1 problem for the Surface.
I actually had/have a Surface (don't worry it was a corporate xmas gift,didnt actually spend money on it.)
Its actually kinda cool, the keyboard actually surprised me its nice and works remarkably well.
The OS is pretty good and user friendly. I actually like it from that standpoint.
However, the biggest and main reason it sucks is.
The App Store, there are hardly any apps.
Honestly I let a friend borrow it like 6 months ago and haven't used it since but there was maybe a couple hundred apps, maybe its improved drastically (doubt it). And 80% of those sucked.
I dont see how MS will compete with iOS and Android ever.They simply got into the game way too late.
I actually had/have a Surface (don't worry it was a corporate xmas gift,didnt actually spend money on it.)
Its actually kinda cool, the keyboard actually surprised me its nice and works remarkably well.
The OS is pretty good and user friendly. I actually like it from that standpoint.
However, the biggest and main reason it sucks is.
The App Store, there are hardly any apps.
Honestly I let a friend borrow it like 6 months ago and haven't used it since but there was maybe a couple hundred apps, maybe its improved drastically (doubt it). And 80% of those sucked.
I dont see how MS will compete with iOS and Android ever.They simply got into the game way too late.
Their advertising should change to reflect that then. Right now it's trying to knock down the iPad but comparing nonsense. Awesome, it has a kickstand built in, whilist not built in, the smart cover does the same damn thing on the iPad. There are ample keyboard options for the iPad and USB isnt a deal breaker or maker for everyone.
Their marketing department isn't doing their engineers any favors.
That's the thing with Microsoft, if they think something is required they'll just keep pouring money down the hole and eventually over time they'll pick up some measly amount of marketshare, but they'll keep increasing it - it's the only choice they have for the growing device markets (Phones and Tablets).
I think Microsoft will probably have better luck with their Windows Phone efforts (thanks to Nokia) than their take a tablet and then re-orient it and make it a laptop Surface. The Surface 2 (ARM) seems primed to be abandoned in a year or two (for an all Intel lineup).
Nice little updates and fixes for the devices, but they're still trying to make laptops out of them - I wonder if they'll ever get that they're tablets and people like to use those differently (or they'd have gotten little laptops)?
As someone who is old enough to have seen the whole MS vs Apple battle for the desktop, this is truly a mirror reflection of that.
Just like Apple before, no one will give the underdog (now MS), any consideration when buying a tablet or phone. And while they have a decent product in the Surface and Windows 8, no one wants to jump on board a platform with a single digit market share.
Just like Apple before, no one will give the underdog (now MS), any consideration when buying a tablet or phone. And while they have a decent product in the Surface and Windows 8, no one wants to jump on board a platform with a single digit market share.
Most people don't care about office on a tablet. Especially when it's not optimized for touch. Plus I use excel every day at work. The last thing I want to do is use it when I get home.
Poor timing. I don't think launching right when an iPad launch is presumed to be happening is the smartest choice. To me, this seems intentional by Microsoft, typical MS arrogance thinking they actually have a chance to compete for mindshare and headlines with a product that has thus far failed.
I actually think the Surface Pro is arguably one of the best Windows 8 laptops on the market, and I would certainly buy one if I was in the market for one. But I don't think its a killer consumer product that has the consumer lust to stand up toe-to-toe with the iPad on launch day. MS may think it is because it can run FULL Office (ooohhh yes, just what consumers CRAVE), but its not.
I actually think the Surface Pro is arguably one of the best Windows 8 laptops on the market, and I would certainly buy one if I was in the market for one. But I don't think its a killer consumer product that has the consumer lust to stand up toe-to-toe with the iPad on launch day. MS may think it is because it can run FULL Office (ooohhh yes, just what consumers CRAVE), but its not.
I have to say that by producing ads that attack the iPad they are making a rod for their own back. Surface Pro is a full blown computer with a full OS and PC architecture, not SoC, so it's surely competing with the Macbook Air as well as hybrid laptops and is priced accordingly. In that market it makes sense.
I am interested in getting one, but not to replace my iPad.
Problem is that they confuse things, because the advantage of the Pro is that it has a full OS, but by having the Surface (RT) as being so similar they don't have the obvious separation that Apple do with iOS and OSX, when in reality they are very different devices aiming at different things. They need to create more separation between the two products.
I am interested in getting one, but not to replace my iPad.
Problem is that they confuse things, because the advantage of the Pro is that it has a full OS, but by having the Surface (RT) as being so similar they don't have the obvious separation that Apple do with iOS and OSX, when in reality they are very different devices aiming at different things. They need to create more separation between the two products.
Agree that hinges are what we expect from laptops. They're pretty easy to take for granted. But you can't shoehorn a hinge into this product, as all the weight is attached to the screen. If you got the rigidness working, you'd have to have adhesive covering the bottom of the keyboards to make it work, or have magnetic pants available as another accessory.
Go all Intel - Intel has the chips now for it - and they would have full blow Windows x86 capabilities on all their surface tablets (make marketing much easier).
Would people flock to them? No way - they're still trying to make laptops out of them - but it would make it all simpler and easier to sell. JMHO...
surface 2 had 3.5 hours battery life. 75% increase = just a bit more than 6 hours.
still crappy
once that thing has 10-15 hours battery though, id be tempted.
contrary to popular belief, windows 8 runs great and having a full computer power in place when you normally compromise to an ipad level computing is great
still crappy
once that thing has 10-15 hours battery though, id be tempted.
contrary to popular belief, windows 8 runs great and having a full computer power in place when you normally compromise to an ipad level computing is great
They can run x86 programs, but not well. After all, Bay Trail is about the same as the Tegra 4 when it comes to performance. So people would be fooled into thinking they can do normal x86 things and run into that brick wall right there when everything is slow.
Aren't you clever?