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Microsoft Debuts $999 Surface Laptop, 'Streamlined' Windows 10 S, and More at Education Event
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If you don't install any Win32, they're right. If you don't install any Win32, it's uselss to most people.
Actually you can upgrade to windows 10 Pro for free until December 21,2017. Which pretty much gives you back full Windows, now if you want to upgrade after that date. You will pay $45, which is cheaper than the full price.
This seems to be a real killer. For some time I wondered why Microsoft would not release a real laptop. I thought Microsoft did not want to kill laptop manufacturers with a machine that would directly compete with theirs. The Surface Book was a laptop that turned into a somewhat clunky tablet; but it was expensive and the hinge was not all that nice. Surface Pro 4 was really nice, and almost there, but not a real laptop either.
But this one seems to nail it. This looks like the laptop Apple would produce if it were to manufacture a Windows laptop. Perhaps some people were expecting the MacBook or the new MacBook Pro to be this laptop, but running OS X instead. It is priced similarly to the MacBook (the 8 GB/256 GB option have the same prices), but it has a more powerful processor (the U-series instead of the Y-series). The MacBook Pro has probably more powerful processors (higher TDP), but they are significantly more expensive as well. The Surface Laptop could be the next-gen MacBook Air, if Apple would ever release one.
The USB 3.0 port seems useful, more useful for the time being than a USB-C port, although that might change in the future. However, it has only one USB 3.0 port, which is of concern. The screen resolution could be higher (but I like the 3:2 aspect ratio), and I am concerned about the fabric in the keyboard (will it get dirty?). And it does not have a giant trackpad nor a touchbar. I still want to test the trackpad and the keyboard, but if they are as good as the ones in the Surface Book, then they are surely a hit. And, even with all its drawbacks, it looks very nice still, and a worthy competitor. It may be the sweet spot for those who want something more powerful than a MacBook and still do not want to fork so much for a MacBook Pro.
While some people may say that this is not even worth looking at because it is a Windows laptop, it seems biased. The Surface Laptop seems to finally be a Windows laptop which is at the level of Apple laptops. Of course it will all depend on how the product feels and performs in the end. But if it is as good as it seems, it looks like a winner.
But this one seems to nail it. This looks like the laptop Apple would produce if it were to manufacture a Windows laptop. Perhaps some people were expecting the MacBook or the new MacBook Pro to be this laptop, but running OS X instead. It is priced similarly to the MacBook (the 8 GB/256 GB option have the same prices), but it has a more powerful processor (the U-series instead of the Y-series). The MacBook Pro has probably more powerful processors (higher TDP), but they are significantly more expensive as well. The Surface Laptop could be the next-gen MacBook Air, if Apple would ever release one.
The USB 3.0 port seems useful, more useful for the time being than a USB-C port, although that might change in the future. However, it has only one USB 3.0 port, which is of concern. The screen resolution could be higher (but I like the 3:2 aspect ratio), and I am concerned about the fabric in the keyboard (will it get dirty?). And it does not have a giant trackpad nor a touchbar. I still want to test the trackpad and the keyboard, but if they are as good as the ones in the Surface Book, then they are surely a hit. And, even with all its drawbacks, it looks very nice still, and a worthy competitor. It may be the sweet spot for those who want something more powerful than a MacBook and still do not want to fork so much for a MacBook Pro.
While some people may say that this is not even worth looking at because it is a Windows laptop, it seems biased. The Surface Laptop seems to finally be a Windows laptop which is at the level of Apple laptops. Of course it will all depend on how the product feels and performs in the end. But if it is as good as it seems, it looks like a winner.
Meh... This is just another pretty laptop. Surface products were starting to represent what can be done differently. This is just more of the same old same.
And windows s?... They really are their own enemy. There is no need for another version of Windows.
And windows s?... They really are their own enemy. There is no need for another version of Windows.
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Some have touch, some don't, some have detachable "tablet" screens, most don't... NO consistency. When was the last time you saw someone sitting in front of you typing on a laptop, and then they suddenly pull the screen off because they want it as a tablet? My experience count of this: ZERO, not ONCE have I seen this or had ANYONE ask me "what is the best laptop I can buy where I can rip the screen off and turn it into a tablet?" - it just DOESN'T HAPPEN. EVER.
If ripping off your screen was such a good idea... if touching your laptop screen, VERTICALLY, was such a good idea, why do SO FEW people want it or use it? People want an iPad and a MacBook, or an iPad and a laptop - not this quarter-baked hybrid, halfway house compromised experience - iPad is THE default, de-facto go-to tablet, it's ubiquity and notoriety are legendary, unparalleled - NEVER ONCE has anyone asked me "where can I buy a Windows 10 tablet?" - N_E_V_E_R, but MANY people ask me "do you know anyone selling an iPad?"
As usual, Microsoft jumped on the train by the skin of their teeth, just as the conductor had blown the whistle and the train was slowly pulling away from the platform... and they jumped on THE WRONG END of the train!
FAIL.
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Yep, it will definitely kill (what remains of) Microsoft's reputation, ain't no doubt.
All these "seems to..." and "is going to" and "will kill..." are FUTURE tense - here's some past tense - iPad HAS ALREADY nailed this, back in 2010.
I just went to my local MS store. Surprised they had a bunch of these there to try out. I really don't see the point of this device at all.
The trackpad is too small and is still as bad as the Surface Pro trackpad. That's why they are pushing their arc mouse.
I don't get the purpose of a touch screen and pen support if you can't hold the device like a tablet. Unlike the Surface Pro, the keyboard does not fold back behind the screen. Writing on the screen is going to be incredibly awkward.
The 3:2 aspect ratio of the screen is extremely odd. Especially since you can't hold the device like a tablet.
No USB-C support at all. How is Microsoft not getting destroyed over this decision? Unacceptable on a modern machine.
If you want a windows machine (I call these people weirdos) there are far better options.
The trackpad is too small and is still as bad as the Surface Pro trackpad. That's why they are pushing their arc mouse.
I don't get the purpose of a touch screen and pen support if you can't hold the device like a tablet. Unlike the Surface Pro, the keyboard does not fold back behind the screen. Writing on the screen is going to be incredibly awkward.
The 3:2 aspect ratio of the screen is extremely odd. Especially since you can't hold the device like a tablet.
No USB-C support at all. How is Microsoft not getting destroyed over this decision? Unacceptable on a modern machine.
If you want a windows machine (I call these people weirdos) there are far better options.
except for the keyboard carpet, and the gimped os. really, who is running this company...
Now, what I don't like in Microsoft's strategy is its inconsistency. It still seems to be testing the grounds. Just look at the releases of Apple and Microsoft laptops:
Apple:
Now look at what Microsoft have done:
The original Surface and Surface 2 were replaced (and eventually discontinued together with Windows RT) just 2 years and a half after its original release. They were replaced with Surface 3, which runs regular Windows), which, after two years, has not been updated yet, despite its weak processor (will it ever be updated or will it be discontinued?).
The Surface Pro kept more consistent updates, but the latest ones seem to have been updated less frequently. There is one year and a half since the last update to Surface Pro 4, and no signs of a new update. Ditto for Surface Book.
So, should we expect Microsoft hardware to be updated on a somewhat consistent basis, like Apple does? Or is Microsoft just testing the ground to see what products it will keep or take away?
Apple:
- MacBook Air:
- Original MacBook Air was introduced in Feb 2008, and updated in Oct 2008 and Jun 2009;
- MacBook Air was redesigned in Oct 2010, and updated in Jul 2011, Jun 2012, Jun 2013, Apr 2014, and Mar 2015.
- MacBook:
- Re-introduced in Apr 2015 to replace the MacBook Air, and was updated in Apr 2016.
- MacBook Pro:
- Introduced in Jan 2006 to replace the PowerBook G4, and updated in Oct 2006, Jun 2007, Nov 2007, Feb 2008, and Oct 2008;
- MacBook Pro was redsigned to get an unibody design in Oct 2008, and was updated in Jan/Mar 2009, Jun 2009, Apr 2010, Feb 2011, Oct 2011, and Jun 2012;
- MacBook Pro got a slimmer body and a retina display in Jun/Oct 2012, and was updated in Feb 2013, Oct 2013, Jul 2014, Mar/May 2015;
- MacBook Pro got an even slimmer body, a giant trackpad and a touch bar in Oct/Nov 2016.
Now look at what Microsoft have done:
- Surface:
- Surface was released in Oct 2012, and was updated in Sep 2013;
- Surface 3, a redesigned version running a different OS (Windows instead of Windows RT) was released in May 2015 (two years from now);
- Surface Pro:
- Surface Pro was released in Feb 2013, and was updated in Oct 2013;
- Surface Pro 3, a redesigned version, was released in Jun 2014, and updated (with a partial redesign) in Oct 2015.
- Surface Book:
- Surface Book was released in Oct 2015, and partially updated in Nov 2016.
- Surface Laptop:
- Surface Laptop was released in May 2017.
The original Surface and Surface 2 were replaced (and eventually discontinued together with Windows RT) just 2 years and a half after its original release. They were replaced with Surface 3, which runs regular Windows), which, after two years, has not been updated yet, despite its weak processor (will it ever be updated or will it be discontinued?).
The Surface Pro kept more consistent updates, but the latest ones seem to have been updated less frequently. There is one year and a half since the last update to Surface Pro 4, and no signs of a new update. Ditto for Surface Book.
So, should we expect Microsoft hardware to be updated on a somewhat consistent basis, like Apple does? Or is Microsoft just testing the ground to see what products it will keep or take away?
good observation about the pen on a clam shell device!
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actually, windows 10s
That is not what happened.
The first Chromebook Google backed was not the Pixel. In fact, there were many cheap Chromebooks from multiple vendors before Google's Pixel. Google did the Pixel to show it was possible to create a premium Chromebook vs all the cheap models that were and still are available. They wanted their vendors to work up from the bottom.
Microsoft has done the opposite by creating a premium Windows 10S laptop with a premium price, without examples that show their vendors that you can build a usable Windows 10S based laptop with cheaper parts.
I'm not saying they made a mistake, but we'll see if it works. IMHO, without a much more robust and comprehensive Windows 10 Store, manufacturers stay away or just repurpose older inventory into Windows 10S computers.
Yet I absolutely never see an iPad on my university campus. It's all laptops, mostly generic, and some Surfaces but not many at all. I didn't see a single iPad all year, and I'm quite attentive to what people are using.
To be fair, while I tend to dislike touchscreen for laptops, it's extremely convenient to be able to tent a laptop for viewing e-textbooks or videos while at school. Desk space can be cramped at times, so tenting or removing the keyboard frees up a good amount of desk space.
And in tent mode, touchscreens become handy for scrolling along and basic input.
True, but slightly pedantic...
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Maybe you have selective vision, or maybe your campus is in/near Redmond, or sponsored (paid off) by the big MS?
How is windows 10 S not going to confuse consumers. Just when it seemed MS was gaining some momentum, this is insane. Also, opportunity cost of not refreshing surface book and surface 4. Its insane!
And that fuzzy interior panel...wut?
And that fuzzy interior panel...wut?
inorite.
Microsoft's internal marketing "focus group":
"So, what we need is a new SKU, a differentiator... <paste mindless corporate board meeting guff here... 3 hours worth>"
3 hours later: "I know, we'll just suffix Windows 10 with 'S' and impose some arbitrary constraints!"
Outcome: They needed another Windows SKU, their product line is too limited and easily navigated.
PS: In case you didn't get the internal memo. "Windows 10S" is the abbreviation for "Windows 10 SpeedFocus Education and College Product Corporate Engagement Edition with Bing! for Exclusive Education Wholesale Contracts"
The "S" has no meaning, it's merely a SKU differentiation creator.
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OP actually didn't say he used it "so much," he said he used a computer with a touchscreen and then tried to touch his MacBook screen. Outside of certain professions, selecting things all over the screen and annotation are pretty uncommon tasks. And if you DO find yourself doing them a lot, you'll run into the terrible ergonomics of jabbing at a vertical screen all day (at least with this laptop).
For college students light on funds, Microsoft needs a replacement for the Surface (non-Pro) 3, a $500 hybrid that is good at being a PC and a tablet that runs full Windows. Attach a decent (but cheap) keyboard, mouse and monitor when in the dorm, and you're good to go for most of your studies.
Asking manufacturers to beat Chromebooks on price and being simple, yet powerful (due to massive Chrome and Android stores) with a Windows 10S laptop (with a much weaker store) is going to be difficult. Microsoft (and Apple, to a certain extent) has to realize that a Chromebook is pretty much as streamlined as you can get for a functional laptop for a student.
Asking manufacturers to beat Chromebooks on price and being simple, yet powerful (due to massive Chrome and Android stores) with a Windows 10S laptop (with a much weaker store) is going to be difficult. Microsoft (and Apple, to a certain extent) has to realize that a Chromebook is pretty much as streamlined as you can get for a functional laptop for a student.
You can buy a cheapo Windows 10 Tablet for less than £60... and to the consumer eye, the functionality is almost identical!
So much hyperbole, lol!
When do I see people rip off the tablet and use it by itself? All the time. Artists. Art directors. Advertising execs. Teachers. Programmers. People who like to write. People in these forums. I did it today for some quick sketching with a coworker's surface pro. There are huge threads on it on this site if you ever care to challenge your preconceived notions.
If there's a takeaway from this, it's that there's a big strange world outside of your daily experience.
Thanks for your patronising pat on the head, I'd never thought that other people may live differently from me, cheers for the enlightenment, you've changed my life.
You maybe forgot that focusing on one specific area of life - computer tech - and talking about it online and watching videos about it from people with equal interest, doesn't count as a valid metric for seeing these things in normal life with normal, average consumers, day to day. Those people moving around in front of you are videos on YouTube, they're not in your immediate vicinity, they're an illusion of movement.
I'm in Seattle / Bellevue and I see a lot more macOS devices. I promise you.
I'm in Seattle / Bellevue and I see a lot more macOS / iOS devices than windows. I promise you.