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Microsoft Debuts $999 Surface Laptop, 'Streamlined' Windows 10 S, and More at Education Event

smoledman said:
https://www.apple.com/macbook-pro/specs/

Apple doesn't even mention which generation of Intel processor they are using, much less the specific model. Any reason for the double-standard on Microsoft?
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You seem to be living in la-la land regarding macOS. I had to do a full reinstall a couple months back because it just hung all the time, random freezes and crashes requiring hard powerdowns. The reality vs myth of macOS in 2017 is different and many people are waking up to that. Windows 10 keeps getting better with every release and macOS worse.
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Not talking about the reliability. You obviously never had os 9 which used to crash all the time! Stability is a mac myth.

I'm more talking about how you use it. Explorer vs finder, aliases, scripting etc... time machine .. how a mac actually works. It's not the really the same as windows at all. And the more power user you become the more your realise that.

If you completely live in 1 or 2 third party tools like photoshop or office it might not mean anything to you. But if your workflow involves several different programs (some mac only especially on the more esoteric design and music apps) then the difference is pretty stark.
 
Bacillus said:
Despite Steve's truths, Apple sadly is losing on both Chromebook and Surface Pro.
Even with Windows & MS Office sold separately.
That should Apple get rethinking...

Apple's Devices Lose Luster in American Classrooms - The New York ...
EduTech: What Apple can do to win back Chromebook users ...
Apple Losing Out to Microsoft and Google in U.S. Classrooms - Mac ...
Click to expand...

This is because public education has been getting less and less funding over the past decade. They have gutted arts & music programs and are cost cutting on everything. Of course they will go for the cheapest plastic laptop options available. Apple could build cheaper plastic products STRICTLY for education, but you have to renember that they are in essence a luxury computer manufacturer. They always have been. The other companies don't have an image or brand to protect. Perhaps once the costs of SSDs drop to the point where a 1TB drive costs $100 or less, then things will be different. Before they were dominating with the MD101 but the new tech is much more expensive. For now all they can offer K-12 are $329 iPads which is actually a great value for the money imo. I would've loved to use this one when I was in school. My iPad 2 w/3G at the time was $800. It was great not having to carry textbooks around.
 
Microsoft is really starting to be the better horse... and Apple continues to be more interested in fancy HQ buildings and political agendas. And I think that is fantastic... competition is good.

There seems to be a lot of confusion about todays announcement. They are two things here... Windows 10 S and the new Surface Laptop. The fact that they are announced together doesn't mean they are one thing. Just like Google produced an expensive Chromebook as a reference platform, doesn't mean the majority of people buy them.

The same hardware people are buying for Chromebook will run Windows S. Coincidentally, last night my daughter bought a sub $300 Chromebook because her old Widows laptop died. She does browsing, email, and office... so doesn't need anything more. After an hour, she loves the thing. BUT, had there been a version of it running Windows S she would have bought that because she had to switch from Word to Google Docs. The hardware she bought has an Intel processor and 4G of RAM, so could have run Windows S. There will be a lot of machines announced from 3rd parties that will be at Chromebook prices running Windows S.

The Surface Laptop may come with Windows S, but the buyer can upgrade to full Windows 10. I believe it is targeting the MacBook, and I believe it will do pretty well. It looks to be a decent machine.

For everyone dismissing this stuff because its not OS X, Windows has gotten a lot better. I just bought a Surface Pro 4 to potentially replace my work Dell laptop and Mac Mini, and I love this thing. Windows 10 is actually pretty good once you get used to it and the ability to switch from full laptop to tablet is quite good. I stopped carrying around an iPad because with my iPhone 6s+, I didn't see it as anything but a big iPhone. But now I can seamlessly go back and forth from laptop to tablet and the experience is pretty good.

And oh... my Apple Watch face just popped off while I was talking on the phone yesterday... so I will be one of those people in the Apple Store there to talk to a genius about a defective product. When I went to the Microsoft store to get the Surface Pro, there was a wait to talk to someone and the place was just as full as the Apple Stores usually are.

Competition is good, and I am much more excited and happy about what I see Microsoft doing these days than the bleh Apple products.
 
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threesixty360 said:
the problem with any windows laptop is windows itself!
A mac is a really about the OS.
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This is all about user preference. I switched to Mac in 2010 with the MBA and ended up switching back to Windows 10 a few years ago (although I still use my 17" MBP on occasion). I prefer window management and multi-monitor on Win10 to Mac - I can't imagine why in 2017 with 30" displays Macs still put a menu at the top of the display. There's no real advantage in stability between the two, Windows has more software available particularly niche enterprise and medical applications, while I do like the nuts and bolts behind system preferences and command line on the Mac. I hate finder and the dock, they are pure garbage compared to Windows Explorer and taskbar.

But honestly, the worst thing about OSX is the selection of hardware. Apple's hardware is premium best in class, but if you want some less expensive options they simply don't exist.
 
lec0rsaire said:
This is because public education has been getting less and less funding over the past decade. They have gutted arts & music programs and are cost cutting on everything. Of course they will go for the cheapest plastic laptop options available. Apple could build cheaper plastic products STRICTLY for education, but you have to renember that they are in essence a luxury computer manufacturer. They always have been. The other companies don't have an image or brand to protect. Perhaps once the costs of SSDs drop to the point where a 1TB drive costs $100 or less, then things will be different. Before they were dominating with the MD101 but the new tech is much more expensive. For now all they can offer K-12 are $329 iPads which is actually a great value for the money imo. I would've loved to use this one when I was in school. My iPad 2 w/3G at the time was $800. It was great not having to carry textbooks around.
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Besides a luxury computer manufacturer they are a lamentary competitor that lost touch. Value for money has become something unknown to them.
 
BornAgainMac said:
The Microsoft App Store is very poor compared to the Mac App Store or iOS App Store. Microsoft is more comparable to a Linux distribution app store.
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That be because M$ users have been on direct buy for years. makers and user base just go with that flow really.

iOS store is the way it is because its the only way to get software on a pad/phone barring being a developer and using its options to test code on a physical device.

MacOS store is nice I guess. I rarely use it. I prefer my direct downloads from vendors and buy from them whenever an option. Which is most of the time. They get the full pay, no split with apple, so they get a bit more out of the deal.
And in cases of patches I get day 1 release as mac os store has apple's code checking which slows down release. Win win really.

Well that and quite a few I run violate apple's acceptable code submission. Ones I use violate rules I just don't get. No code using emulation one of them. have another apple kicked them out the store for the oddest reason. Its devs got too familiar and knowledgeable with apple's api structuring and worked some voodoo magic with it, apple didn't like that.

Why I don't like the store anyway and not a sign of greatness. Only online store I like is steam tbh. years of gaming on instant recall, and kick ass sales periodically. And I double dip...installs on my MBP and my kid's surface pro for the games it can support.
 
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$1000 for a Windows machine - and a (more) crippled version of Windows at that - with 4Gb RAM and 128Gb and people here falling over themselves to complement it. LOL

I'm sure the same posters would be just as complementary if Apple released an App Store only Mac at the same price and specs :rolleyes:
 
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Beautiful laptop, but this is in no way a threat to Chromebooks.

As soon as they figured out what the price would be, which was long before the Surface Laptop went for production, they should have pivoted, added as standard an additional 4GBs of RAM, Windows 10, and pushed it as an executive laptop, challenging the MacBook. As a student, if you don't want to go Mac or Chromebook, Microsoft's Surface Pro and Surface Book line provides much more bang for the buck than the Surface Laptop. And third party vendors have putting out great PC laptops, again, with a better price.

Microsoft (and Apple, to a certain extent) has to realize that a Chromebook is pretty much as streamlined as you can get and still have functionality. You are not going to beat a well designed Linux distro in a battle of keeping a small footprint while also providing basic services. Chromebooks will always be able to undercut both PCs and Macs on price, and with Google and Android Apps, provide enough cheap productivity and educational software to choke a horse.

Microsoft's Achilles Heel, even with the much improved Windows 10, is their store and UWP selection.
 
This is a 1-2 year laptop, that alcantara,since the laptop doesnt have a cut out into the lid to open it up, the alcantara will wear off the metal case in time after many openings. And no usb-c means people will have to stick with old legacy ports. If you want win 10 pro you will have to trade half of that battery usage or stay within that limited Os that has a lot less apps than apple store
 
oneMadRssn said:
Agreed. Frankly Microsoft doesn't tell us much at all. They don't say which CPU they use, just i5 or i7. No RAM speed or type. Not how the SSD is connected.
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Well, then it could be the ULV i7 processor (wayyy slower than HQ) and a cheap SATA SSD for all we know. My friend used to brag about his Dell until he found that he had those two things.
 
My wife said the same thing LOL RT was a big flop why in the hell would they try it again.

Dilster3k said:
This particular product may not appeal to me, however there is absolutely no denying that Microsoft has been killing it over the last few years. Props to them!

Edit: Surprised they're going for this approach again with 10 S, considering how hard Windows RT flopped.
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"Let's make something beautiful and powerful, give it premium pricing, and then intentionally put a crippled OS on it to limit the functionality so we can further put a stranglehold on what our customers can and cannot do."

Like the iPad Pro, I have to question some of the design choices.
 
Microsoft as usual, coping the Ux of macOS, coping how to make and, coping the computer online configurator, and now coping the concept of mac...

this is just a copy of the macbook air.... and if you choose the hi end model it´s cost as much as the mac....

Conclusion: an expensive light machine with windows or a mac?

every racional person will choose a mac...
 
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You got that right Teachers are the biggest cry babies when they receive a locked down Computer.
They contact the union as quick as you lock them down.

cardfan said:
Sounds like garbage. But then again, it's targeted at education. But I don't think this is what educators were crying for.
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So apparently, after much dramatic weeping and gnashing of teeth, the Mac community has finally learned to love Apple's move to USB-C. All it took was the announcement of a windows laptop without USB-C to make people come around, LOL. :D
 
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I like the microsoft hardware

I like windows 10 (mostly, but same with OSX)

But no way to 10S. Thats as bad as ios locked down garbage, but on a system with 20 years of open history. Pathetic, idiotic means to force people to spend even more money to move to Win 10 Pro.
 
Adding $100 to each model so you can actually unlock your Windows 10, you get:

Entry (compare it to a MacBook, MBA) with some differences you can get the same price, or for $200 more much better Apple hardware,

or a better comparison:

$1,399 Surface 8gb, 256ssd - vs - $1,499 MBP 13" 8gb, 256ssd
except with the MBP you get
+ superior screen
+ probably superior chassis and trackpad
+ superior IO
+ macOS

So for $100/$200 savings, you can buy yourself an inferior MS Surface... cool.

However, I'm glad they're turning up the heat on Apple, I'm sure the entry pricing, plus look and feel will fool a lot of people into thinking it's a fair fight.

Edit: also, in 3 years, what do you think will have better resell value? You're much better off buying AppleCare and then reselling, upgrading to another MBP, and keep on keeping on rather than be stuck replacing your MS Surface completely in some number of years or sooner.
 
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greenmeanie said:
My wife said the same thing LOL RT was a big flop why in the hell would they try it again.
Click to expand...
Because it still run x86 apps packaged in Windows Store. Btw this new Surface actually can be upgraded free in one year to Windows 10 Pro. Or $49 after that one year period.
 
astrocramp said:
This is all about user preference. I switched to Mac in 2010 with the MBA and ended up switching back to Windows 10 a few years ago (although I still use my 17" MBP on occasion). I prefer window management and multi-monitor on Win10 to Mac - I can't imagine why in 2017 with 30" displays Macs still put a menu at the top of the display. There's no real advantage in stability between the two, Windows has more software available particularly niche enterprise and medical applications, while I do like the nuts and bolts behind system preferences and command line on the Mac. I hate finder and the dock, they are pure garbage compared to Windows Explorer and taskbar.

But honestly, the worst thing about OSX is the selection of hardware. Apple's hardware is premium best in class, but if you want some less expensive options they simply don't exist.
Click to expand...

I agree with some thing you say, not on others. Agree window management better in Win10, but don't see a big problem having the menu bar on top – I like that it can't be overshot in MacOS. There sure is more software available on Windows (especially certain areas) but software on MacOS is generally more well designed in my view and has a more coherent user interface (for example Preferences are found in the same place – ”cmd ,”). On Windows third-party software still often looks like it's made with Windows 95 in mind.

I don't think the Finder is that bad (but could use some improvements for sure) and the Dock is also okay I think. What I like best in MacOS is the applications switcher that only shows running apps and not every window – makes it quick to find the app I want to get to when the amount of running apps are plenty.

Fully agree with lack of hardware options on the Mac side of things, though. Would be nice to have a little more to choose from at least (without going the Hackintosh route).

Anyway…
 
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