Microsoft Debuts New Dual-Screen Devices, Updated Surface Laptops and More

[4look4rd]

Thats some really nice hardware from microsoft but a few takeaways I have:

• Surface Pro X is way too expensive, it starts at $1000 for the base 8GB/128GB configuration but quickly balloons to $1300 if you want 256GB ssd, thats way too much for unproven hardware in a family of products that already had 2 failed attempts at Windows on ARM. IMO they should have started pricing at $799 with $899 for the 256GB upgrade, and $1200 for 16GB/512GB configuration.
• Surface Duo is mouth watering, IMO a much better approach than foldable screens. But unfortunately I'm not sold on Android after having the Galaxy S10e for most of this year. I understand that Windows 10 sucks when it comes to apps, but Android isn't any better with tablets and this phone should be treated as a tablet. I really wish Apple puts out a dual screen product next year but I doubt it will happen. Still this is a hero device, props for microsoft for pulling it off even if it is still a year away
• Surface Studio needs a monitor only version. This is perhaps the device I want the most, it has the perfect aspect ratio for desktop productivity, and the Touch screen with that hinge design is like nothing else in the market even two years after the original came out. Please release it as a monitor only, its a day one purchase for me as long as they keep it under $2,000.
• Surface laptop looks amazing, really nice they made it repairable without compromising on build quality. This is a great direction to move the industry to.

[automerge]1570209635[/automerge]
Thats some really nice hardware from microsoft but a few takeaways I have:

• Surface Pro X is way too expensive, it starts at $1000 for the base 8GB/128GB configuration but quickly balloons to $1300 if you want 256GB ssd, thats way too much for unproven hardware in a family of products that already had 2 failed attempts at Windows on ARM. IMO they should have started pricing at $799 with $899 for the 256GB upgrade, and $1200 for 16GB/512GB configuration.
• Surface Duo is mouth watering, IMO a much better approach than foldable screens. But unfortunately I'm not sold on Android after having the Galaxy S10e for most of this year. I understand that Windows 10 sucks when it comes to apps, but Android isn't any better with tablets and this phone should be treated as a tablet. I really wish Apple puts out a dual screen product next year but I doubt it will happen. Still this is a hero device, props for microsoft for pulling it off even if it is still a year away
• Surface Studio needs a monitor only version. This is perhaps the device I want the most, it has the perfect aspect ratio for desktop productivity, and the Touch screen with that hinge design is like nothing else in the market even two years after the original came out. Please release it as a monitor only, its a day one purchase for me as long as they keep it under $2,000.
• Surface laptop looks amazing, really nice they made it repairable without compromising on build quality. This is a great direction to move the industry to.

 

[itguy06]

So, you'd know that the Duo, or "this phone" as you insist on calling it, offers exactly *no* better integration with Windows than any other Android phone. It uses exactly the same apps and protocols to achieve this integration. Because it's a bog standard Android phone.

It's a year away and none of us know what the final product will look like or how it will integrate. You do realize that Android OEM's design phones and tablets with wide ranging features, right? They also have custom software that cannot easily (if at all) be loaded to other phones.

Quite, and the "Your Phone" app supports all Android phones, as you mention, even your Galaxy. It also supports iPhones for that matter. Once again, integration that's already there and *not* specific to the Duo. You'd know that, if you weren't.... you know.

And the Your Phone app does have features on certain phones that are not available on others.

Your Phone app built into the Galaxy Note 10 and Galaxy Note 10+

Microsoft's mobile efforts continue with Your Phone being built into the Galaxy Note 10 and Note 10+.

www.windowscentral.com

Note where it says that phone calls over Your Phone will support calls on Samsung Galaxy Note 10. It already does screen mirroring according to the article.

My Samsung comes with a bunch of apps that are Samsung specific and delivered via Google Play. You can't easily install them on, say an LG or a Pixel.

There's no "special sauce" to throw in, the idea is absurd. Your Samsung is about as custom and about as "special" as any Google approved Android is ever going to be. And it's nothing special. Cortana is already available on Android and Microsoft isn't pitching the Duo as a "special Android" device. At best it will have a Windows theme.

The devices are over a year away so we really have no idea what they will be like. MS could very well do custom stuff. Their apps can sense they are running on the Duo and have extra functionality. They can also modify how the phone connects to Windows via Your Phone app or something else. And enable that only if it detects it's running on a Duo. Samsung has done something similar with DeX on the Galaxy phones. You really don't know what you are speaking about.

The Samsung phones have heart rate sensors, Pulse O2 sensors, and I think rudimentary EKG built in to them. They even have a dedicated (useless) Bixby app. Samsung Pay has the magstripe thingy, DeX, etc. There's a lot of customization there that others like LG doesn't have.

One Plus also has pretty custom Android phones. As does LG. Essential was a pretty custom phone too.

Great. Why, though? It's literally just another Android phone, except way more expensive. There will be nothing that the Duo can do which other similarly specced Android phones can't do. You understand that?

Please stop. Just because it runs Android doesn't mean it's all the same. There are plenty of differentiators that do not cross brands or models. It's like saying all Windows machines are the same. They are not.

 

[Rockadile]

You bring up a good point. If Microsoft stopped making hardware nobody would care (other than people who frequent tech sites like The Verge). Certainly Wall Street wouldn’t. In that respect Panos Panay has a dream job. He has all this Microsoft money to experiment with different ideas/form factors and how much they sell (or if they ever even ship) doesn’t really matter.

John Gruber had an interesting take: in the keynote they made a point of touting the reliability of their keyboards. Yet nobody remembers that because along side shipping hardware they showed off prototypes that won’t ship for at least a year. The event could have been Microsoft makes more reliable hardware than Apple. Instead it was here’s some shiny objects to get The Verge writers all wetting their pants. Then of course they wake up the next morning and as the hangover wears off they look at the devices again and scratch their heads. If Apple released something like this techies would be laughing at how it looks like a prototype from 2010 or something.

How is Surface Studio a halo product? I remember when it was announced all the complaints about the hardware specs. It wasn‘t iMac Pro or Mac Pro level hardware.

Sure Microsoft treats Surface like a real business (and it is) but if it went away tomorrow Wall Street would barely blink. Because of that the Surface team has the luxury of experimenting and creating shiny objects for bored tech writers to drool over.

A halo product doesn't have to be on Mac Pro hardware level, it's Apple's halo.
It just has to look nice & special with a higher price tag relative to their own product range.

Name another all-in-one that has a 28" 3:2 touchscreen with ergonomic adjustment.

You know, I keep looking at those 2 products shown in your post (the surface Duo and Neo) and I just can't seem to wrap my head around it (and it's not just because Apple hasn't done it yet). More specifically, I am having difficulty accepting this whole “hold it like a book” user paradigm.

I really don't see the need for a hinge. The only thing that really needs to be held like a book is an actual physical book or notebook because those objects are made of paper. They are very traditional objects that we always had to hold like that. We don’t NEED to be seeing two pages of information at a time in book form most of the time. What’s the first thing most people do when they get out a spiral bound notebook to take notes? They fold the page they don’t need to the back and concentrate on the page they do need.

Second, I feel that Microsoft is taking a very big risk by essentially leaving it up to developers to support their device's unique form factor. Maybe Microsoft plans to reach out to key app developers to optimise their app layouts, but if developers already aren't willing to optimise their apps for a traditional tablet layout, what are their chances of getting them to support a new form factor which will have an even lower adoption rate?

I simply do not see enough app developers spending the time and money to make a compelling folding screen experience for the few users that end up with those devices. Especially when you consider that most Android users are not their best customers.

Which brings me back to an argument I often make (and which critics often tend to overlook) about how Apple has the best customers, which in turn attracts the best developers, resulting in the best experience for its users.

Finally, I just do not get how so many companies in the tech industry will pre-announce products and services that will not be available within a short timeframe to purchase/use. They seem to forget an important point in sales that is to not get your customers excited for something that they can not get right away. I guess it goes back to your (our?) point about how Microsoft doesn't need these products to sell well, or even sell at all. They just need to keep peddling the impression that they are (still) innovative, and in this regard, I suppose it's money well-spent.

"pre-announce products and services that will not be available within a short timeframe to purchase/use. They seem to forget an important point in sales that is to not get your customers excited for something that they can not get right away."

Yeah, like the AirPower right?

 

[Atlantico]

It's a year away and none of us know what the final product will look like or how it will integrate.

That did not stop you from postulating some fantasy scenario. You do well with sinking your own arguments, perhaps you should have taken a bit more time to think before posting counter arguments to yourself.

And the Your Phone app does have features on certain phones that are not available on others.

Not because Microsoft is purposefully segregating the market, but because the device makers don't support certain features themselves. Any Android device maker can get all features of the Your Phone app on Windows 10 if they so choose.

The devices are over a year away so we really have no idea what they will be like.

You keep repeating that as if it does anything but sink your own fantasy argument. Yes, we don't know what the final product is, except it's Android. You're the one blathering about "secret sauces" and other such banalities, of which we known nothing, have no indication of from Microsoft, nor is there any history from Microsoft with regards to their Android effort which indicates any such effort.

You can't even say what this "secret sauce" will entail, just harp on that it's going to happen, even though you yourself shoot that argument down repeatedly - because *you* don't *know* anything about their plans.

Let me emphasize that: You don't know of Microsoft's plans for the Duo. You know nothing about it and you concede that point repeatedly.

You really don't know what you are speaking about.

Let me quote yourself:

The devices are over a year away so we really have no idea what they will be like.

QED.

The Samsung phones have heart rate sensors, Pulse O2 sensors, and I think rudimentary EKG built in to them. They even have a dedicated (useless) Bixby app. Samsung Pay has the magstripe thingy, DeX, etc. There's a lot of customization there that others like LG doesn't have.

The one thing we do know - or rather I do, but evidently you don't -, is that Nadella, Microsoft's CEO has completely dismissed any ideas of Microsoft concerning itself with platforms. Here's a quote: Microsoft is looking to create “an app model that spans experiences across devices.”

Not to create a niche device with "secret sauce" features. It's simply not interesting to Microsoft, and both Nadella and Panos Panay hammer this fact down repeatedly. Microsoft is here to serve all types of Android phones and iOS equally, create the same experience, no matter what sub-par Android phone you convince yourself is good, because Microsoft wants people to use their apps, their products, their services. Not some fantasy "secret sauce" phone. The dual screen Duo exists because it pushes their services, not because Microsoft thinks Android is the future. In fact they don't.

Here's another quote, from the same article as above, from Panos:

“No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,” says Panay in response to the possibility of Android being the future for Microsoft. “You want to give customers what they want in the form factor that they’re using. We’ve learned this — let’s put the right operating system on the wrong product or the other way around. But what’s the right operating system for the form factor? And in this case, on mobile devices, Android’s the obvious choice. But anything [bigger than] that, Windows is everything.”

Please stop. Just because it runs Android doesn't mean it's all the same.

It is all the same to Microsoft, and if you cared to read up on their vision, plans and strategy - becoming the next HTC is not among them. It's all about cloud and services. Nothing else.

 

[Alan Wynn]

"pre-announce products and services that will not be available within a short timeframe to purchase/use. They seem to forget an important point in sales that is to not get your customers excited for something that they can not get right away."

Yeah, like the AirPower right?

You do get the difference between an accessory - even if it ended up being popular and a product that would compete with your currently shipping products, right? No one put off buying an iPad or Mac because they knew the Airpower was coming out at some point.

 

[Rockadile]

You do get the difference between an accessory - even if it ended up being popular and a product that would compete with your currently shipping products, right? No one put off buying an iPad or Mac because they knew the Airpower was coming out at some point.

???

An accessory is a product...

And your last sentence has nothing to do with OP quote or my post. We're talking AirPower sales affected by customer excitement.

 

[Abazigal]

"pre-announce products and services that will not be available within a short timeframe to purchase/use. They seem to forget an important point in sales that is to not get your customers excited for something that they can not get right away."

Yeah, like the AirPower right?

That was one product which Apple could not get to work. It’s not representative of their overall product release strategy.

 

[Abazigal]

Please stop. Just because it runs Android doesn't mean it's all the same. There are plenty of differentiators that do not cross brands or models. It's like saying all Windows machines are the same. They are not.

I am reminded of BlackBerry, whose pivot to Android didn’t work so well, because the moment you use the same underlying OS as everyone else, what’s left to sufficiently differentiate your product from everyone else?

 

[Rogifan]

That was one product which Apple could not get to work. It’s not representative of their overall product release strategy.

AirPower is becoming the new Mac vs PC. Complain about competitor ads it’s what about Mac vs PC. Complain about vaporware and it’s oh yeah well what about AirPower.

 

[Rockadile]

That was one product which Apple could not get to work. It’s not representative of their overall product release strategy.

How many Microsoft products didn't get to work in recent years?

 

[Abazigal]

How many Microsoft products didn't get to work in recent years?

It’s more that they simply don’t seem to have caught on with the general public. Their hardware sales remains a very small fraction of their total revenue overall. I am simply pointing out that Microsoft can afford to do this because they don’t earn from hardware, so they are fine with people going “this is a cool-looking product, even if I am never going to get one in a million years”. Their bread and butter is in getting office and OneDrive in the hands of as many users as possible and in this regard, Microsoft and Apple aren’t competitors, regardless of the potshots they take at each other or however the media tries to paint it.

Conversely, it doesn’t matter if a product like the Airpods gets castigated online for “looking funny”, because internet critics, for all the noise they make online, ultimately represent just a few buyers in a sea of tens of millions. Yet Microsoft released their own earbuds which cost even more and tout the ability to control ppt slides as a tent pole feature and not a squeak here. I have no idea what they are supposed to look like either. After 3 years, nobody has an answer to Airpods, which are now practically a cultural phenomenon unto themselves.

The issue here isn’t that Microsoft is evidently innovating while Apple isn’t, but that Apple is constantly being graded on a curve relative to the rest of the competition. And that is why the critics will continue to read Apple wrong every single time.

 

[Rockadile]

It’s more that they simply don’t seem to have caught on with the general public. Their hardware sales remains a very small fraction of their total revenue overall. I am simply pointing out that Microsoft can afford to do this because they don’t earn from hardware, so they are fine with people going “this is a cool-looking product, even if I am never going to get one in a million years”. Their bread and butter is in getting office and OneDrive in the hands of as many users as possible and in this regard, Microsoft and Apple aren’t competitors, regardless of the potshots they take at each other or however the media tries to paint it.

Conversely, it doesn’t matter if a product like the Airpods gets castigated online for “looking funny”, because internet critics, for all the noise they make online, ultimately represent just a few buyers in a sea of tens of millions. Yet Microsoft released their own earbuds which cost even more and tout the ability to control ppt slides as a tent pole feature and not a squeak here. I have no idea what they are supposed to look like either. After 3 years, nobody has an answer to Airpods, which are now practically a cultural phenomenon unto themselves.

The issue here isn’t that Microsoft is evidently innovating while Apple isn’t, but that Apple is constantly being graded on a curve relative to the rest of the competition. And that is why the critics will continue to read Apple wrong every single time.

There's a photo of the Microsoft earbuds on the first post. You can't be serious...

Apple has iCloud so they are Microsoft competitor.

Hardware and Microsoft...we already know. You don't have to keep pointing it out. Same thing can be said about Mac apps being overshadowed by Adobe and Office.

 

[Abazigal]

There's a photo of the Microsoft earbuds on the first post. You can't be serious...

Apple has iCloud so they are Microsoft competitor.

Hardware and Microsoft...we already know. You don't have to keep pointing it out. Same thing can be said about Mac apps being overshadowed by Adobe and Office.

Most people get iCloud to sync their photos and backup their devices. I don’t think it’s used in the same way as onedrive, which is more like dropbox in that regard.

 

[Ostagazuzulum]

Anyone remember this patent from Apple early in 2019 for a dual screen device?

Apple Patents Dual Screen MacBook With Glass Keyboard, and It Sounds Great

Shifting keys, anyone?

www.inverse.com

I think Microsoft has just jumped in sooner but clearly the Duo is not ready if release is a whole year away.

Personally, I love the form factor of the Duo. Somewhere I saw it described as a ‘Booklet’. I think I’d be happy with that type from Apple, though perhaps not as a phone. I certainly prefer glass over plastic.

And if I may quote Stanley Goodspeed from ’The Rock’... “Glass or plastic? Glass or plastic?!”

 

[iOS>MacOS]

If you didn’t write touch screen, it almost reads as my experience of MacOS recently.

Don’t get me started on iOS...

not this year they though. Windows 10 is at a stand-still. Still not running decently on portable devices. Until they‘ve fixed the touch screen sensitivity issues, the lag, the slow scrolling (it‘s 2019 for crying out loud), the fact that none of the Microsoft software products are properly touch enabled, the constant hick-ups, restarts, crashes, account issues with Office 365 apps etc. etc. just make using Microsoft products a chore. I would really like them to succeed, but for some reason, Microsoft seems to be treading water.

At least they have Touch Screen on there Desktop and mobile version of OS. i only wonder why MacOS does not have touch enabled device. not counting iOS and "PadOS" devices. Apple has has been always afraid to innovate. As far Microsoft device being a "chore" to use, compared to what MacOS ? a joke of a real computing software, file management and app management is a joke. Seriously not all that's shiny is Gold.

 

[shaunp]

Exactly that. I wish Apple wouldn't have given up on the Mac/MacOS because I'd really prefer to stay in this eco system. But the MBP is getting more horrible, the lightweight 12" MB killed, screens haven't changed in years, keyboards got worse, prices higher. Instead of touch there's the useless idiot touchbar. I am sorry but...

I'm with you on that, but the original question was to someone suggesting that the new Microsoft kit had great hardware, but terrible software. Just the usual Windows-bashing but with out any real substance.

I switched over to a Thinkpad around 3 years ago and I'm not looking to replace that. While I still like Mac OS in that time Apple haven't produced any hardware worth buying. My desktop is struggling too, so that will also be replaced. Again nothing from Apple I would buy. I'd be tempted by an iMac Pro, but don't trust their support - all is good with Apple hardware until it isn't and I've been burned twice with laptops.

Guess I'll just swap out the relevant bits on my desktop and possibly look at leasing options for a new laptop as I tend to swap those out more often.

 

[Mythos99]

There is zero point to creating a 15” MacBook Air w/ just USB-C at this point, versus simply giving us two substantially more versatile TB3 ports as the 13” MacBook Air sports. It also depends on whether Apple decides to use a 10th Generation 25w TDP U-Series CPU or not. TB3 is baked into these CPUs, so MS missed the boat in not offering that functionality with the Surface Pro 7. Apple deciding to take the MacBook Air in a larger direction remains to be seen, but there is definitely untapped market potential based on the number of people who refer to this amongst the forums. Whether or not this is simply a response to the lack of a $1999 15” MacBook Pro is another matter entirely.

Sorry, i meant TouchBar actually

 

[Zdigital2015]

Sorry, i meant TouchBar actually

No worries, thanks for clarifying. Hate it when acronyms can be applied to
more than one thing on the same device. I wholeheartedly support a 15” non-TouchBar equipped MacBook Air with either Touch ID (more likely) or Face ID (less likely) and two Thunderbolt 3 ports with 3.5mm jack on the LEFT side, because Apple needs to get that particular detail fixed. Perhaps even put an SD Card slot on the right side. Still don’t want to see any USB 3.0 Type-A ports. Also, it should be using the 10th U-Series 15w TDP CPUs now and get rid of this UHD 617 nonsense.

 

[Mythos99]

No worries, thanks for clarifying. Hate it when acronyms can be applied to
more than one thing on the same device. I wholeheartedly support a 15” non-TouchBar equipped MacBook Air with either Touch ID (more likely) or Face ID (less likely) and two Thunderbolt 3 ports with 3.5mm jack on the LEFT side, because Apple needs to get that particular detail fixed. Perhaps even put an SD Card slot on the right side. Still don’t want to see any USB 3.0 Type-A ports. Also, it should be using the 10th U-Series 15w TDP CPUs now and get rid of this UHD 617 nonsense.

Yeah, i like the Touch ID on the new Air, something like that on MBP would be really good.

 

[Moonlight]

But are the tech journos claiming the benefits of passively watching Netflix/YouTube/Twitch while, somehow with who knows what kind of human brain, actively focusing on word processing, A/V work, scientific research being sarcastic?

No, some people can multitask, some can't

 

[YaBe]

Well for me it's the end of an era, and the start of a new one I guess.
I just bought a Surface Laptop 3 and cannot wait for delivery and while I have been using Mac and Windows all along, it's the first time I am without a "current" Mac.

Never thought I would be this excited about a Windows Box , but here I am.