Microsoft Demos Free Windows 10 Update, Debuts New 'Project Spartan' Web Browser

[Traverse]

Windows 10 looks excellent. A solid improvement over 8. Can't wait to upgrade.

I've been using the tech preview, but when does it come out? None of the articles about the keynote mention it?

There is an early release version coming out for developers and people (like you and me) who signed up for the tech previews coming out in a week or so right?

Did they give a date/time frame on the stable release date?

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Hey guys! We made a new web browser! It's called Spartan, and you can tell that it's not just Internet Explorer with a new name because we said so!

IE was not terrible in it's latest iteration.

 

[bobenhaus]

They have no other choice but to offer it for free. Windows 8 was a complete disaster that left a bad taste in my (and many users) mouths. Besides, you don't need Windows to do computing tasks any more.

YEah over 200 million copied sold a total disaster.

 

[lowendlinux]

Nobody wants Windows anymore. That's the problem. Even if Microsoft paid people to use Windows over OS X, the vast majority of people would go with the Mac. Apple has all the momentum and there is nothing Microsoft can do to get it back.

Only if you hang out in specific bubbles.

 

[HenryDJP]

The more I thought about MS rolling this out, the more it seems to be copying Apple's philosophy - a philosophy that is not working imo. Yosemite has a lot of bugs. Apple rolling out annual upgrades for free is not working in providing stable environment. While the price is not the problem, the annual upgrades is. Windows appears to be headed down the same path, and I think windows will have a more difficult time of rolling out stable updates.

Well here's the thing, people get fixated on the "new" OS that is coming out and upgrade for the heck of it. Apple doesn't stop support for the previous OS. If that were true and they completely stopped support when the new OS is released then your point would be well taken. In this case, people are still getting support and software updates for Mavericks. My experience with Yosemite has been very good so far but there are a couple of bugs but are very minor, at least for me.

 

[diamond.g]

Hey guys! We made a new web browser! It's called Spartan, and you can tell that it's not just Internet Explorer with a new name because we said so!

I've been using the tech preview, but when does it come out? None of the articles about the keynote mention it?

There is an early release version coming out for developers and people (like you and me) who signed up for the tech previews coming out in a week or so right?

Did they give a date/time frame on the stable release date?

----------



IE was not terrible in it's latest iteration.

It is about time MS attempts to retire Trident rendering engine.

 

[HenryDJP]

Windows 10 is looking excellent so far

No doubt, that's because it was looking more like Yosemite. Nearly every time they intro'd a new feature, it was a feature that Yosemite had. Even the UI of that feature was nearly the same. Go figure.

And before you or anyone goes off on a tangent about iOS7 using Android-like features, this article is about Microsoft and it's not the first time Microsoft has tried to mimic the Mac OS experience. This dates back well over 10 years.

 

[Eidorian]

We'll deliver new features when they're ready, not waiting for the next major release. We think of Windows as a Service -- in fact, one could reasonably think of Windows in the next couple of years as one of the largest Internet services on the planet. And just like any Internet service, the idea of asking 'What version are you on?' will cease to make sense."

I really love this line.

http://blogs.windows.com/bloggingwindows/2015/01/21/the-next-generation-of-windows-windows-10/

 

[LordVic]

No doubt, that's because it was looking more like Yosemite. Nearly every time they intro'd a new feature, it was a feature that Yosemite had. Even the UI of that feature was nearly the same. Go figure.

And before you or anyone goes off on a tangent about iOS7 using Android-like features, this article is about Microsoft and it's not the first time Microsoft has tried to mimic the Mac OS experience. This dates back well over 10 years.

What is microsoft copying from Yosemite?

• Scalable UI that adapts based on usage scenario
• 3d Holographic UI that allows for 3d interactivity with the world around you using augmented reality?
• A Display device for corporations to do meeting and teleconferencing in a full realtime setup.
• Xbox gaming integration and live streaming from the console
• Universal Applications that can seemlessly change from Desktop, to tablet, to Mobile phone mode on the same installation.
• A brand new Minimalist Web Browser
• Lifetime of free upgrades with a complete change on the paradigm of releasing new features. Instead of new versions of windows, if a new feature is added, it is pushed to all windows 10 users for free.

so yeah, they're copying everything from Yosemite, cause all these things are currently in my Yosemite right?

 

[Narcaz]

I think the different approaches that Apple and MS are taking are really interesting.

Apple creates their OS to be optimized for the UI of the various devices that they sell. Apple focuses on interoperability between different types of devices to make the user experience as seamless as possible when moving between devices. Apple is in the hardware business, so they want you to be buying and moving between multiple devices. OS X for keyboard and mouse/trackpad computers, and iOS for touch devices. Apple strive for seamless integration and interoperability via the cloud and connectivity.

Microsoft seems to be striving for one OS that allows different UIs on the same device. So, in theory, your laptop can convert into a tablet and visa versa. In this way, the user doesn't need to but both a computer and a tablet. Instead, they can have the touch experience with a laptop or desktop device.

In theory, the MS approach might save a consumer from buying 2 devices (tablet and computer), since both touch and desktop features can be found on one device. Of course, using a single device adapted to two different UIs involves compromises and can be problematic and challenging.....the neither fish nor foul dilemma.

Good observation. All the improvements in Windows 10 could make a far better tablet/hybrid/laptop experience than 8.1. And this could definitely hurt iPad sales. I am seriously tempted to sell my iPad mini 2 this year and try out a fanless hybrid Core M machine unless Apple steps up their iPad game. The iPad experience feels somehow stuck in 2011/2012, which isn't a bad thing, but MS/Intel really moved further. Thinner and faster is not enough in 2015. I mean these hybrids from the CES aren't top notch build quality (ok iPad Air 2 isn't as well), but besides their tablet mode they offer full X86(Office) support, browser extensions, split screen multitasking, multiple user accounts and HDMI/USB 3.0 ports for 600-700$. Apple should include some these features this year or their tablets will have a hard time.

 

[Renzatic]

I think you misunderstood my post, if they are embracing that same philosophy (read IF) then that does not bode well for the quality of the OS. They have in the past year stated they're likely to roll out more frequent updates (or did they say upgrades I forget) and that's my point.

What MS is doing isn't quite what Apple does. Instead of having big yearly releases that throw in everything from under the hood OS improvements to updates for their software, they're doing more of a Linux style rolling release. Instead of big chunks, you get much smaller updates piecemeal throughout the year.

Plus, if the tech preview is anything to go by, they're going to have upgrade channels you can choose from. You can play it safe by staying in the stable and tested channel, or if you're a tinkerer, you can hop on the cutting edge channel and get the latest features as they come available.

If it ends up working well, it might end up producing a more stable product. Bug fixes and new features are separated, and new bells and whistles come out slowly when they're ready, rather than jammed together with a bunch of other new bells and whistles and given to you at all once.

 

[LordVic]

What MS is doing isn't quite what Apple does. Instead of having big yearly releases that throw in everything from under the hood OS improvements to updates for their software, they're doing more of a Linux style rolling release. Instead of big chunks, you get much smaller updates piecemeal throughout the year.

Plus, if the tech preview is anything to go by, they're going to have upgrade channels you can choose from. You can play it safe by staying in the stable and tested channel, or if you're a tinkerer, you can hop on the cutting edge channel and get the latest features as they come available.

If it ends up working well, it might end up producing a more stable product. Bug fixes and new features are separated, and new bells and whistles come out slowly when they're ready, rather than jammed together with a bunch of other new bells and whistles and given to you at all once.

was looking into the corporate / enterprise side of things for work quickly and it seems like you will have this option. You can lock down windows to stop receiving the new product features and just critical updates, giving corporations their own granular control over deployment. Something that is very Very much needed (since who in corporate wants a new set of code suddenly in their system that breaks proprietary systems)

 

[Renzatic]

was looking into the corporate / enterprise side of things for work quickly and it seems like you will have this option. You can lock down windows to stop receiving the new product features and just critical updates, giving corporations their own granular control over deployment. Something that is very Very much needed (since who in corporate wants a new set of code suddenly in their system that breaks proprietary systems)

My only question is if MS still isn't quite ready to give away the OS for free entirely, how are they planning on doing paid updates later? I imagine all the bug fixes and critical updates will roll down the tubes for everyone, same as always. But how do you get the new stuff? Do you buy them off the app store or what?

 

[LordVic]

My only question is if MS still isn't quite ready to give away the OS for free entirely, how are they planning on doing paid updates later? I imagine all the bug fixes and critical updates will roll down the tubes for everyone, same as always. But how do you get the new stuff? Do you buy them off the app store or what?

Windows 10 will not be free. They're giving the upgrade free the first year only.

After that it returns to the Perpetual licensing that windows currently has.

I can also see them possibly starting subscription.

I think the goal here is to spur on new hardware purchases. Many people are avoiding hardware upgrades because Windows 8x is mandatory purchase with it, and the fear is already there. Court of popular opinion won and people do not want Windows 8.

if in the future, all computers come with Windows 10. and no matter when you b uy it, next year, 3 years from n ow, it will have Windows 10, BUT still have all the newest features, Windows no longer become the barrier to purchasing new hardware products. The additional features that are released over time will be free to windows 10 no matter where in the product life cycle it is. The example used is HoloLens. it will not be in Win10 on shipping, but will be released at a later date that yo would just download and add.

That means more windows tablets. More windows phones. More windows desktops. More perpetual OEM licenses. Microsoft finally realized that people en mass do not buy windows upgrades on their own and it's a hardware driven market.

 

[G4er?]

Once a device is upgraded to Windows 10, Microsoft plans to keep the operating system current for the lifetime of the device.

While this sounds nice it also means Microsoft just set itself up for more legacy. One team to create the next operating system and another legacy team to keep supporting Windows 10.

Still that might be better than what Apple has been doing.
Better for the customer, not the corporation.

 

[AFEPPL]

On first look, this would get me to buy a windows box again.
Like with all things, i'd have to take a test drive first of course.

 

[John.B]

Yes they were. If you don't like the modern UI then that's fine, but 8.1 fixed the usability issues that plagued 8.0.

I don't get why people complain about the tiles so much. I spend 99% of my time on the desktop and just treat the modern UI as a Start Screen as that is exactly what it is. Granted, I am not a fan of the tiled apps, but the Start Screen is very usable.

I disagree. Even with the 8.1 Update, it's like Sybil in there: Sometimes you get Windows Tiles, sometimes it's Windows 7+. And the transition is jarring.

I like Windows 10 much better though. It's perfection.

Agree that the Windows 10 beta is already an improvement. Something about every other OS release from that company...

 

[LordVic]

While this sounds nice it also means Microsoft just set itself up for more legacy. One team to create the next operating system and another legacy team to keep supporting Windows 10.

Still that might be better than what Apple has been doing.
Better for the customer, not the corporation.

I wonder if they're not trying to change that paradigm as well. instead of having new Operating systems released regularly, you have one platform built fairly modularly.

You never have to upgrade from Windows 10 (or at least not for a long long period of time), but as features and functionality get released, it will be rolled down to everyone on BB10.

So 10 years from now, everyoe is still running Windows 10, but it looks and operates functionally like a brand new OS. at the core, its more a content delivery OS than the traditional OS we are used to

*** this is my speculation only

 

[pacalis]

I think the different approaches that Apple and MS are taking are really interesting.

Apple creates their OS to be optimized for the UI of the various devices that they sell. Apple focuses on interoperability between different types of devices to make the user experience as seamless as possible when moving between devices. Apple is in the hardware business, so they want you to be buying and moving between multiple devices. OS X for keyboard and mouse/trackpad computers, and iOS for touch devices. Apple strive for seamless integration and interoperability via the cloud and connectivity.

Microsoft seems to be striving for one OS that allows different UIs on the same device. So, in theory, your laptop can convert into a tablet and visa versa. In this way, the user doesn't need to but both a computer and a tablet. Instead, they can have the touch experience with a laptop or desktop device.

In theory, the MS approach might save a consumer from buying 2 devices (tablet and computer), since both touch and desktop features can be found on one device. Of course, using a single device adapted to two different UIs involves compromises and can be problematic and challenging.....the neither fish nor foul dilemma.

Different approaches for sure, but I don't think it's a dilemma in the long run. The critical advantage MS has is that software is far easier to adapt than hardware, especially as all of these devices (smart phones, xbox, tablets) are really all fundamentally just different types of computers with different communication protocols. So, in my view, managing the distinctions in the software layer as a little OS bloat vs. optimizing OS storage and making unique types of OS for different hardware configurations, is the right long run approach especially when you consider it from the developer standpoint.

 

[lowendlinux]

I wonder if they're not trying to change that paradigm as well. instead of having new Operating systems released regularly, you have one platform built fairly modularly.

You never have to upgrade from Windows 10 (or at least not for a long long period of time), but as features and functionality get released, it will be rolled down to everyone on BB10.

So 10 years from now, everyoe is still running Windows 10, but it looks and operates functionally like a brand new OS. at the core, its more a content delivery OS than the traditional OS we are used to

*** this is my speculation only

That's actually how I took the announcement there is no longer a release cycle it's just a rolling OS from now on.

IMHO Microsoft has pulled more from the Linux model than OS X, even the convergence idea of one OS no matter the platform. Canonical has been working on this now for more than a few years. Rolling release and a unified platform sounds a great deal like Ubuntu fused with Arch especially if the multiple channel thing is correct.

 

[LordVic]

That's actually how I took the announcement there is no longer a release cycle it's just a rolling OS from now on.

IMHO Microsoft has pulled more from the Linux model than OS X, even the convergence idea of one OS no matter the platform. Canonical has been working on this now for more than a few years. Rolling release and a unified platform sounds a great deal like Ubuntu fused with Arch especially if the multiple channel thing is correct.

Saw the Ubuntu phone idea and its fantastic. I Just had no confidence that Ubuntu could deliver it.

Microsoft on the other hand is one of the worlds largest technology companies. If they want to do it. They can.

I look forward to the day that I can have a single phone. that's it. I want to use a tablet? I plug it into the tablet and it's now tablet. I want to use desktop? I plug it into the desktop and that's it. It is smart enough to change it's UI based on usage.

Microsoft goofed up before by trying to make one UI to cover everyone. Theyve learned!

It would be the ultimate BYOD for work. No longer need a desktop. No longer need continuity style handovers over wireless or Bluetooth. everything is just one device


*** I realize I sound a little fanboyish right now, i'm just very excited to see for the first time in decades a fundamental shift in how we interact with our computers. Its got me excited again for the first time in a long time.

 

[Renzatic]

Windows 10 will not be free. They're giving the upgrade free the first year only.

After that it returns to the Perpetual licensing that windows currently has.

I can also see them possibly starting subscription.

I think the goal here is to spur on new hardware purchases. Many people are avoiding hardware upgrades because Windows 8x is mandatory purchase with it, and the fear is already there. Court of popular opinion won and people do not want Windows 8.

if in the future, all computers come with Windows 10. and no matter when you b uy it, next year, 3 years from n ow, it will have Windows 10, BUT still have all the newest features, Windows no longer become the barrier to purchasing new hardware products. The additional features that are released over time will be free to windows 10 no matter where in the product life cycle it is. The example used is HoloLens. it will not be in Win10 on shipping, but will be released at a later date that yo would just download and add.

That means more windows tablets. More windows phones. More windows desktops. More perpetual OEM licenses. Microsoft finally realized that people en mass do not buy windows upgrades on their own and it's a hardware driven market.

That answers the store bought hardware question, but still leaves how you'll pay for an OS upgrade for an OS that no longer has singular releases hanging.

The most important thing in my opinion is that everyone should have easy access to the latest and greatest version. No hassles. No fuss. No muss. OSX, iOS, and ChromeOS do this for people. You don't have to worry about buying anything. You just get it. With MS' approach, they have a setup in place that allows everyone to do just that, but there are still monetary barriers of entry. You'll still have people sticking around with a 3 year old version that might be missing some handy new feature because they don't want to pay X amount to get the latest rev.

I think this is Windows biggest stumbling point compared to the rest, all of whom have gone with new methods of monetization. Keeping everyone up to date ultimately creates a more stable platform, and should be one of MS' primary concerns.

 

[lowendlinux]

Saw the Ubuntu phone idea and its fantastic. I Just had no confidence that Ubuntu could deliver it.

Microsoft on the other hand is one of the worlds largest technology companies. If they want to do it. They can.

I look forward to the day that I can have a single phone. that's it. I want to use a tablet? I plug it into the tablet and it's now tablet. I want to use desktop? I plug it into the desktop and that's it. It is smart enough to change it's UI based on usage.

Microsoft goofed up before by trying to make one UI to cover everyone. Theyve learned!

It would be the ultimate BYOD for work. No longer need a desktop. No longer need continuity style handovers over wireless or Bluetooth. everything is just one device

They're inching ever closer. They finally have a decent revenue stream coming in from Ubuntu Server and the have the old school Mac cult. They'll pull it off despite the larger linux community.

 

[lowendlinux]

That answers the store bought hardware question, but still leaves how you'll pay for an OS upgrade for an OS that no longer has singular releases hanging.

The most important thing in my opinion is that everyone should have easy access to the latest and greatest version. No hassles. No fuss. No muss. OSX, iOS, and ChromeOS do this for people. You don't have to worry about buying anything. You just get it. With MS' approach, they have a setup in place that allows everyone to do just that, but there are still monetary barriers of entry. You'll still have people sticking around with a 3 year old version that might be missing some handy new feature because they don't want to pay X amount to get the latest rev.

I think this is Windows biggest stumbling point compared to the rest, all of whom have gone with new methods of monetization. Keeping everyone up to date ultimately creates a more stable platform, and should be one of MS' primary concerns.

Microsofts big money comes from enterprise where you pay per seat and new OEM licenses. If the can force everyone on Office 365 and get the app store set up and functional I don't think they'll lose much.

 

[Ethosik]

There is always something that can be done, but I don't think the issue here is the desktop computer. It's mobile. Microsoft has lost the war on mobile to Apple and Google, and that is why Microsoft has become irrelevant for a lot of people.
Windows 10 is a welcome addition to modern OSes, but it should happen 3 years ago. Better late than never I would say..
You are right though, an OS X user has no reason to switch to Windows. Not one.

I disagree. There are two reasons I still use Windows:

1) Visual Studio. This is still the best development environment around. Combined with ReSharper, and nothing beats it!

2) Games. Even if the same game is available on OS X as it is on Windows, it still performs MUCH better on Windows. Example - I have a GTX 680 and I have to run WoW on medium on OS X. On Windows, I can run it on maximum with very little lag (only in big cities with lots of people it drops to about 30). This is at 2560x1440 resolution.

 

[LordVic]

That answers the store bought hardware question, but still leaves how you'll pay for an OS upgrade for an OS that no longer has singular releases hanging.

The most important thing in my opinion is that everyone should have easy access to the latest and greatest version. No hassles. No fuss. No muss. OSX, iOS, and ChromeOS do this for people. You don't have to worry about buying anything. You just get it. With MS' approach, they have a setup in place that allows everyone to do just that, but there are still monetary barriers of entry. You'll still have people sticking around with a 3 year old version that might be missing some handy new feature because they don't want to pay X amount to get the latest rev.

I think this is Windows biggest stumbling point compared to the rest, all of whom have gone with new methods of monetization. Keeping everyone up to date ultimately creates a more stable platform, and should be one of MS' primary concerns.

as long as you'r eon windows 10, you will always be up to date for free. at least thats the way I understand it. They're going for up front purchasing for the consumer. Theyll get their percentage of every new PC sale from OEM licenses.

it's essentially eliminating the differences between an "upgrade" version license and a normal license. so, if you bought windows 10 tomorrow, 10 years from now, it will be as updated as anyone who bought windows 10, 10 years from now. no need to release new OS upgrades as a regular interval, or expect users to pay for the features.

I think that is their ultimate goal.