Microsoft Looks to a Future of H.264-Based HTML5 for Web Video Content

[quatermass]

I think perhaps the web has matured beyond Flash anyway, with users now wanting content more than fluff and to get to it faster and easier rather than taking the scenic route. There was a time when a lot of websites had tricked-up Flash intro pages before getting to the site proper. I can't recall the last time I've seen one actually.

And that particular abomination was purely due to Flash... I used to work freelance and went around a lot of agencies in London. The thinking was that you had to make your work look as sexy as possible, and show off what you could do (mostly with Flash) so that would go into the portfolio and be shown to the next potential client... and the snowball grew and grew. Nothing at all to do with building usable websites or the user experience, just poncy designers showing off. Thank God that's over! As for Flash games... meh! Mostly tawdry eyecandy used as amarketing tool. I think the world can live without that.

 

[SimonMW]

Open != Open Source or Free. BTW, the Web Browser makers pay for the patents, smart person...

Sorry, but you are totally and utterly wrong. Read the licensing terms. If your website requires people to pay to enter the section that contains the H264 encoded video then *you* have to pay for licensing. You also have to pay licensing if your audience numbers go above a set threshold.

Why do you think Mozilla went with the OGG format?

 

[MorphingDragon]

Sorry, but you are totally and utterly wrong. Read the licensing terms. If your website requires people to pay to enter the section that contains the H264 encoded video then *you* have to pay for licensing. You also have to pay licensing if your audience numbers go above a set threshold.

If you're running Vista/7 and 10.5/6, you have a system wide end-user license already for H264 decoding already. Apple, Microsoft and Google would just need to integrate the Video playing with the OS.

Oh and you have no friggin clue. The H.264 T&C of each license is different on each operating system and each provider.

 

[dernhelm]

Come on people - this isn't about eliminating Flash from the world. This is about educating web designers of the future about using the right tool for the job. For streaming video, and simple ads, Flash is the wrong tool for the job, it is far too heavy for that kind of work today. There are better tools that will make your site play better on all devices.

But Flash does have other uses. And for those uses, it's only competition are other plugins like Silverlight. HTML5 is coming along, but it won't pass Flash in full interactive capabilities and development tools for quite some time.

 

[stracky]

"currently full HTML5 only works on Apple’s proprietary software" - from this site. the real reason behind apples push for HTML5 maybe.

i like flash cause it allows for interesting, engaging and artistic elements/ webpages. flash has a place just like everything else. HTML5 will be great, and help to improve the coding of HTML which is a mess across all the browsers.

 

[Queso]

Wow. Not read the entire thread, so apologies if these points have been made, but:-

1) Microsoft Silverlight benefits from a reduction in Flash's dominance.
2) Google says it supports Adobe, therefore Microsoft goes against Google with this (surprise!!)
3) Microsoft and Apple are rumoured to be getting back in bed together over a whole bunch of things (to combat Google). Maybe this public backing of Apple's position is part of that.

This really shows how much the game has changed. 10 years ago there was only really one major player, MS. Now there are at least three. It'll be interesting to see how many there are in another decade.

 

[twoodcc]

can't believe m$ is agreeing with apple for once!

 

[Otaviano]

Wow. Not read the entire thread, so apologies if these points have been made, but:-

1) Microsoft Silverlight benefits from a reduction in Flash's dominance.
2) Google says it supports Adobe, therefore Microsoft goes against Google with this (surprise!!)
3) Microsoft and Apple are rumoured to be getting back in bed together over a whole bunch of things (to combat Google). Maybe this public backing of Apple's position is part of that.

This really shows how much the game has changed. 10 years ago there was only really one major player, MS. Now there are at least three. It'll be interesting to see how many there are in another decade.

Only partially, Android is backing Flash because they believe it will help them compete against the iPhone. However Google purchased a video codec which they plan on open sourcing and releasing into the HTML5 video spec. Which will be nice slap in the face to all these hysterical Flash people.

 

[DeSnousa]

I always thought flash allowed you to create styled video pages, does HTML5 do this?

Sorry I have not read much of the thread.

 

[Bytor65]

No Surprise at all.

I fully expected this.

Despite public support of Flash, Microsoft would like nothing better than flash to die.

So joining the HTML5/H264 club helps with that.

Bonus for H264 being a proprietary commercial, licensed protocol as it keeps it out of Firefox. Helping IE against a strong browser competitor in the browser wars.

Win-Win for Microsoft.

Minor loss for Adobe.
Big loss for Mozilla.

 

[tomozj]

I always thought flash allowed you to create styled video pages, does HTML5 do this?

Sorry I have not read much of the thread.

This is actually pretty easy, I tested it myself. Using Javascript you can control the video's play/pause status, playback speed, set/get the current position in the movie etc. (this goes for audio too).

 

[TheYellowAudi]

Where does it say that IE9 doesn't support Flash???

...in terms of video playback. I kind of figured that since the ENTIRE story was centered around flash VIDEO we'd all pick up on that. Guess not.

 

[Neurobit]

Here to stay? No. Here for now. They still need better content-creation tools for HTML5/CSS/Javascript. If Adobe is smart, they'll be the ones who provide them, but if they continue to be stubborn and drag their feet, someone else will. There's little that Flash does that cannot be done by other, more open means. Two years from now when there's 150+ million iPhone OS devices out there that don't run Flash, it's going to be a tough sell to stick with Flash. Furthermore, those are all mobile devices, which is where the action (and advertising money) is nowadays. Do you want to exclude all those devices from seeing your content, or do want to suck it up and re-code with HTML5/CSS/JS? The more Flash-less devices there are out there, the easier that choice becomes. There is a tipping point somewhere where the momentum will be just too great to ignore for most companies, and considering how many major websites have already adjusted in the wake of iPhone and iPad, it won't be that long.

Ripley(Adobe Head): Well, somebody's gonna have to go out there. Take a portable terminal, go out there and patch in manually.
Hudson(Flash): Oh yeah, sure! With those things runnin' around? You can count me out.
Hicks(Public): Yeah I guess we can just count you out of everything, Hudson.
Bishop(HTML5): [speaking under Hicks] I'll go.
Hudson(Flash): That's right, man.
Bishop(HTML 5): I'll go.
Hudson(Adobe Flash): Hey, why don't you go, man!
Bishop(HTML 5): [more loudly] I'll go.
Ripley(Adobe Head): What?
Bishop(HTML 5): I'll go. I mean, I'm the only one qualified to remote-pilot the ship anyway.
Hudson(Flash): Yeah right, man, Bishop should go.
[Vasquez (Steve Jobs) looks at Hudson with disgust]
Hudson(Flash): Good idea!
Bishop(HTML 5): Believe me, I'd prefer not to. I may be synthetic, but I'm not stupid

Hahahaha... that's a classic. Nicely done!

 

[Max(IT)]

We all know that video content will move away from Flash.

Flash know this, and it has implemented H.264 support.

But for all the other stuff that Flash does, and HTML5 can't do, or can't do time and cost-efficiently, Flash is here to stay.

No matter what Steve tells you.

The sad part is, H.264 is also proprietary, and they WILL start charging for it in a few years, once they've sold it well to the mass of idiots.

you are incredible ....

Microsoft said "Flash does have some issues, particularly around reliability, security, and performance."
I'm sure you can understand English better than me.
FLASH SUCKS, he's not speaking only about video.
And there is NOTHING Flash can do and you can't do with HTML5 and other apps. It may be a problem just for lazy developer, that barely can use Flash and don't want to learn something new. I can't evan call they "developer" ...

 

[Max(IT)]

Of course the two evil empires are in agreement here: Flash is a multi-platform technology, and it actually is one of the very few multi-platform solutions that actually work: The content looks and behave identical on - all - supported platforms.

That is something that neither Silverlight nor HTML nor Java nor anything else EVER achieved. And the worse thing is that Flash even has a small foot print.

So, naturally, the company that developed its own "Flash killer", Silverlight, and the other company that wants to push its mobile application and downloadable video/music sales through its iTunes AppStore, Flash is a living nightmare that needs to be killed as quickly as possible.

You "theory" (actually it is just another Apple bashing post) is flawed in its basis: Microsoft isn't saying "Flash sucks, we are going to use Silverlight".
Microsoft is saying "Flash sucks, we are going to support HTML.5".

Try another one, dude

 

[SimonMW]

If you're running Vista/7 and 10.5/6, you have a system wide end-user license already for H264 decoding already. Apple, Microsoft and Google would just need to integrate the Video playing with the OS.

Oh and you have no friggin clue. The H.264 T&C of each license is different on each operating system and each provider.

It has nothing to do with the OS. There is a license for that yes. But there is a separate license that you are liable for if you are serving H264 content for profit that is separate from the end users OS.

Under the terms of the current royalty rates due to expire on December 31, makers of software products including the codec are charged 20¢ per unit after the first 100,000 units sold per year, and 10¢ per unit after the 5,000,000th unit sold that year. Royalties for this year are capped at $5 million. Subscription video streaming services also incur royalties, at a rate starting at 2¢ per subscribed title plus about 10¢ per subscriber per year. Those rates, and their associated caps, are likely to change next year, and MPEG LA may be announcing changes soon.

Note that last paragraph. When you grow up and have to live in the real world making video for a living as I do, you need to know this stuff.

 

[Max(IT)]

Although Flash is a very inefficient format, it makes me a bit sad to see all the hate on Adobe. After all, Adobe has brought, and continues to bring, huge contributions to creative media.

I agree with you: Flash is crapware and MUST disappear.
Adobe is a software house with a very important history and an active present (CS5).
We don't need Adobe's death.
We DO need Flash' death.

In fact, it surprises me quite a bit to see such negative sentiments coming from people who use Macs exclusively. Maybe I'm incorrect, but I thought that Adobe and Apple got along quite well in the past. After all, Apple had the most aesthetically pleasing, productive operating system and Adobe provided the best tools for any creative pro to work with.

So.. what up, guys?

you are wrong: in the past Adobe screwed up Apple many times.
If you have time, read THIS article.
It is very interesting.

I honestly don't understand most of the comments here and the whole attitude and all.

That article is about video content and HTML5 and not about Flash disappearing.
Flash is not only used for video content, it might be its major use right now, but that is not was Flash is really about.

Microsoft General Manager IE said "Flash does have some issues, particularly around reliability, security, and performance".
This is a statement that Flash sucks, and it's not only related to video content.
BTW Flash is mostly about annoying ads, not video content ....

p.s. Yes, I do like Flash and use it for some of my web stuff.
But especially recently, with all the Anti-Flash attitude from Apple and its fanboys, I like it even more. I just can't stand companies that try to use their power and try to force the consumer into thinking their way.

p.p.s. I am still using Apple products and enjoy doing so, just to clear that up!

Good luck with you web content NOT going to be seen by millions of iPad/iPod/iPhone users, all around the world

Most large companies have decided that people who like you are generally losers with little disposable income, who simply do not matter.

So, they ignore you. As do I.

OMG, you really don't know what you are speaking about
iPad/iPhone/iPod owners are "losers with little disposable income" ?
Maybe in your wet dreams ....
Most large companies are developing "flash free" versions of their web site ...

Flash is a lot more than Flash Video. Do you understand this?

Maybe you should stick to farming and butchering.

Microsoft said "Flash does have some issues, particularly around reliability, security, and performance." Do you understand this?

 

[Bytor65]

Of course the two evil empires are in agreement here: Flash is a multi-platform technology, and it actually is one of the very few multi-platform solutions that actually work: The content looks and behave identical on - all - supported platforms.

Behave Identical? Complete Nonsense.

Flash doesn't even behave the same in different browsers on the same computer in the same OS with the same plug in. I ran a flash benchmark, in Chrome and Firefox. In Chrome the Benchmark locked at 60fps and used low CPU, in Firefox it maxed a CPU core and FPS was bouncing between 100-200 FPS.

Then you get to the poor plugins developed for Linux that use more CPU and crash all the time.

Then you get to mobile Flash, which is pretty much only Flash Lite, which hardly works anywhere.

Two Evil Empires? Are you born yesterday?

As someone who has been choosing tech alternatives since the 80's (Like OS/2, Opera, Linux), there is a massive distinction between Apple and Microsoft.

Apple you get outspoken position of where they stand, even when they have a controversial opposition to something (DRM, Flash), they tend to work publicly and privately in line with their stated position.

Microsoft you always get public support and behind the scenes subversion. Microsoft publicly supported Java/Javascript standards, and attempted to corrupt both by building non standard implementations. Microsoft's own sites even looked for Opera browser tag and served Opera broken pages, I was an Opera user then, if you tricked the site into serving you the IE page, it worked perfectly in Opera. Way back there was a better DOS than DOS by Digital Research (DR DOS), Microsoft released pre-release copies of Windows 3.1 that would fail with error messages if it detected that you were running DR-DOS. Then there is "DOS ain't done, till Lotus won't run"...

You really can't equate the two.

Stop bashing a technology whose importance and potential you don't even remotely grasp or understand. It's getting annoying, and most of you Flash haters don't have any argument except for "Steve told us so". You should know how that makes you sound.

Stop ascribing faulty motives to people. I never knew Jobs had a Flash issue till 2010. I hated flash since it's inception, it has driven my browser choice since it has been around, starting with Opera, since I could easily disable plug ins, only moving to Firefox when when they got a useful Flashblock plugin and the lack of an effective flashblock plugin is holding back a move to Chrome.

Nothing to do with Jobs, everything to do with Flash always being a huge annoyance. Though I do thank Steve for the Public Anti-Flash stance, just like I applauded his anti-DRM stance on music.

 

[addicted44]

How are some of the commentators drawing the inference that MS is heavily pushing Silverlight from a post whose first sentence is "The future of the web is HTML5"?

 

[macUser2007]

Only partially, Android is backing Flash because they believe it will help them compete against the iPhone. However Google purchased a video codec which they plan on open sourcing and releasing into the HTML5 video spec. Which will be nice slap in the face to all these hysterical Flash people.

Yeah. Except that Flash is not just video. Maybe you should try to learn the difference...

And Adobe supports H.264, which is what Apple supports, and now Microsoft.

If Google indeed opens VP8, it will be the one major company which gives the web a truly open video format, for free.

Then Google will be the only good guy among all the greedy bastards, including Apple - the greediest of them all.

 

[Otaviano]

Yeah. Except that Flash is not just video. Maybe you should try to learn the difference...

Video is what made Flash relevant, and what will inevitable make Flash irrelevant in a year or two.

Google is just as greedy as Apple and Microsoft.

 

[icecone]

Yeah. Except that Flash is not just video. Maybe you should try to learn the difference...

And Adobe supports H.264, which is what Apple supports, and now Microsoft.

If Google indeed opens VP8, it will be the one major company which gives the web a truly open video format, for free.

Then Google will be the only good guy among all the greedy bastards, including Apple - the greediest of them all.

google will open VP8
youtube will switch to VP8
but apple and Microsoft will not support it, like any other open format they never supported

 

[Otaviano]

google will open VP8
youtube will switch to VP8
but apple and Microsoft will not support it, like any other open format they never supported

You seriously think Apple will not support VP8 if they open source it? I mean seriously .. you believe that?

 

[scottparker999]

I get much better rendering reliability and video performance from the Flash version of youtube when compared to the HTML5 version. Although my MacBook is nearly 3 years old now. I would imagine with hardware decoding of H.264 this would be greatly improved. But for me, flash is fine.

 

[Max(IT)]

Yeah. Except that Flash is not just video. Maybe you should try to learn the difference...

yes , you are right: Flash crapware is not only video.
BTW at CanSecWest, security expert Charlie Miller, someone you "Apple basher" should know very well and sympathize with, was asked which browser is safest, to which he replied, “there probably isn’t enough difference between the browsers to get worked up about. The main thing is not to install Flash!”

There is a Worldwide plot against Flash