Those of us in the development community have been using App as a term referring to software FOR DECADES. Online application stores have existed for more than a decade. Just because you and the other half dozen or so Apple fanatic posters in this thread have never heard of it outside of the context of Apple does not make it a fact.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Microsoft Objects to Apple's 'App Store' Trademark Application
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
Check again. Microsoft DOES have a Registered Trademark on Windows.
http://www.microsoft.com/about/legal/en/us/IntellectualProperty/Trademarks/EN-US.aspx
You can even see the "R" symbol right after "Windows" in their logo.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/
You are correct that they do not have one on "Word". Or "Office". (only on their icons)
I think both sides are making pretty reasonable claims. I think this is one of those rare situations where courts and lawyers provide a valuable contribution.
It's actually a forum thread he posted, apparently my New York Times article wasn't legitimate, but some message board with some folks opinions about Microsoft's trademarks is. I, too, smell fanboy.
The pre existents of the term app isn't the question, using it to name a store that downloads applications to the iPhone was revolutionary in its level of success. Hence the jumping on that bandwagon. I am certain if Apple had called the iPhone / iPod store the 'core store' we would see a ton of 'core stores' by now and we would be discussing the entomology of 'core'.
Until I read this article, that's what I'd assumed. I assumed Apple would differentiate between their Mac App Store and their iOS/iPhone App Store. It never crossed my mind they'd be silly enough to try to trademark "app store".
Actually it's not a trademark, notice how it uses the (R) logo instead of the (TM) logo like on other products. It's restricted, referring to it being federally registered. Anyone can federally register anything, but like someone else said, they don't have grounds to sue Anderson for calling their product "Windows", and when they tried to sue the software developers behind "Lindows", it got overturned, specifically because they had no ACTUAL trademark on Windows, and it was a generic term that could NOT be trademarked. They had a Trademark (as in TM) from 1983-1993, but after that, no.
-John
http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Linux-and-Open-Source/Lindows-Wins-a-Big-One-in-Windows-Trademark-Suit/
A highlight:
"Although Microsoft owns numerous registrations for trademarks which include the Windows designation, it only gained these without disclaiming exclusive rights in the Windows term by claiming that the term has gained trademark distinctiveness by reason of its advertising, marketing and sale of goods under the mark, a so-called Sec. 2(f) basis," Graham said.
"But if the jury determines that the windows term was not only merely descriptive, but was in fact generic prior to Microsofts use of the term, then no amount of advertising, sales or secondary meaning would entitle Microsoft to monopolize the generic term," he said. "Thus, this is an important victory for Lindows and a defeat for Microsoft."
Spoiler alert: That's exactly what happened, the Jury determined that Windows was Generic, and no amount of Advertising could make it otherwise. They can and will keep putting (R) on it, but they lost that suit to a tiny open-source company, they aren't dumb enough to try again. In fact, Linspire used Pro-Bono lawyers IIRC.
App is a word that is not defined in the dictionary. Apple can trademark "app" because the file extension for every program on a Mac is .app
Additionally Apple first started using the term "app" when they opened the iTunes App Store in 2008 which supports first use of the term regardless how long developers have been using it.
Additionally Apple first started using the term "app" when they opened the iTunes App Store in 2008 which supports first use of the term regardless how long developers have been using it.
I'm afraid I don't really understand what you said.
I think Microsoft may have a genuine point. I just didn't know if the term was widely used and understood before the iOS app store?
It is possible if many people were using it that even I was using it, I can't remember. It is just ingrained in my mind now as an Apple thing. But reading this thread it looks like that may be wrong?
I would still really like to know how Steve referred to them in the original iPhone unveil. Just can't be bothered to find and watch the whole thing. Anyone got too much time on their hands and fancy doing it for me? He he.
On my PC at work they are called Programs.
On my Macs at home, they are called Applications.
Been this way for a long time.
M$, you can have your Programs Store or whatever you want to call it. Don't pretend you ever called anything an Application or App.
Apple has been calling things Apps, or Applications for a long time when no one else really was and so they named their iOS and Mac App Stores as such. Now that Android and everyone else are putting mobile programs on their phones, they are jumping on the coattails of Apple's nomenclature and calling them Apps because they realize that is what people of the dominant device and system are calling it. Nice try Ballmer and Co.
On my Macs at home, they are called Applications.
Been this way for a long time.
M$, you can have your Programs Store or whatever you want to call it. Don't pretend you ever called anything an Application or App.
Apple has been calling things Apps, or Applications for a long time when no one else really was and so they named their iOS and Mac App Stores as such. Now that Android and everyone else are putting mobile programs on their phones, they are jumping on the coattails of Apple's nomenclature and calling them Apps because they realize that is what people of the dominant device and system are calling it. Nice try Ballmer and Co.
this point might have already been made, but just think of it this way. Apples "app store" is the only store where "apps" are sold in the LITERAL sense.
I can't speak for the original iOS app store, granted. though i'd imagine it works pretty much the same way. The Mac app store however SELLS APPS.
As in .app files. You purchase the app (a single .app package) and it downloads to your Applications folder and that's it. App doesn't even need to mean Application in this sense. It could mean "store where you purchase .app files".
Also, Windows is also a pretty generic term in the OS world. It's been used since the very first GUI desktops. Now anyone who's not a n00b knows that Apple introduced the first consumer GUI desktop. That had windows. Microsucks just happened to use it for their OS. I also highly doubt that Windows is NOT trademarked. If it wasn't, some other OS designer could come about and make a FORTUNE by calling their OS Windows 8 and they wouldn't be doing a thing wrong.
I can't speak for the original iOS app store, granted. though i'd imagine it works pretty much the same way. The Mac app store however SELLS APPS.
As in .app files. You purchase the app (a single .app package) and it downloads to your Applications folder and that's it. App doesn't even need to mean Application in this sense. It could mean "store where you purchase .app files".
Also, Windows is also a pretty generic term in the OS world. It's been used since the very first GUI desktops. Now anyone who's not a n00b knows that Apple introduced the first consumer GUI desktop. That had windows. Microsucks just happened to use it for their OS. I also highly doubt that Windows is NOT trademarked. If it wasn't, some other OS designer could come about and make a FORTUNE by calling their OS Windows 8 and they wouldn't be doing a thing wrong.
I disagree with Microsoft. "App Store" is only perceived as generic today because iPhone is so successful, and because Apple revolutionized smartphones. Similar stores have now grown common, and now a greedy Microsoft want to make use of the iPhone brand popularity, and get access to the App Store name itself. They probably most of all want to trademark "App" too.
Put simply -- Microsoft are trying to feed off of Apple's success, and that's exactly what trademarks are there to prevent. They want to make use of how users associate "apps" with quality devices, and become "hip" themselves.
There's nothing preventing Microsoft from keep using Microsoft Windows Phone 7 Marketplace.
It's not Apple's problem that the press has started to use the word "app store". That shouldn't make Apple lose any trademark rights.
Heck, Marketplace isn't the problem there - it's their wordy product name.
As usual.
Put simply -- Microsoft are trying to feed off of Apple's success, and that's exactly what trademarks are there to prevent. They want to make use of how users associate "apps" with quality devices, and become "hip" themselves.
There's nothing preventing Microsoft from keep using Microsoft Windows Phone 7 Marketplace.
It's not Apple's problem that the press has started to use the word "app store". That shouldn't make Apple lose any trademark rights.
Heck, Marketplace isn't the problem there - it's their wordy product name.
As usual.fact remains plenty of online applications stores before apple had the apple App store.
Wether or not someone jumped on the bandwagon is besides the point.
And APP as in application . I doubt core store or core would have been a succes instead of apps. Wich on itself was already and established name for application.
Cant you read?
Google "gem" and "app". You will see its been in use since the mid 80's.
Fourth link down in the Google search: http://www.deltasoft.com/gemnotes.htm
Last edited:
Again App-V was release by MS in 2006 and Citrix has used the term Applications (Apps) for a long time. Apple didn't just invent this word its been used for a long time.
Much ado about nothing
From a consumer's perspective, what's the downside of Apple winning or losing this trademark? Just curious.
From a consumer's perspective, what's the downside of Apple winning or losing this trademark? Just curious.
While I agree with MS, your point isn't really relevant. The existence of application stores is only relevant if they were referred to as "app stores" (either commercially or by the public). And the use of the term "app" in the development community is equally irrelevant - trademarks are invalid for being generic when the general consuming public uses the term "app," not when a narrow community of specialists does.
What about "Word" "Words" "Office" "Money" "internet explorer" "Math" "Security Essentials" "virtual pc" "flight simulator" "home server" "Search Server" "Terminal Services" "Picture Manager" "Social" "Ultra-Mobile PC" "App-V"
App-V? I don't know if MS has a trademark on all of them but these are generic terms related to the product they present.
App-V? I don't know if MS has a trademark on all of them but these are generic terms related to the product they present.
There is a big difference between a trademark and a patent.Can I patent the term "Shoe Store" ???
Hmmmm.....
And you could probably try to trademark "The Shoe Shop" or "The Sneaker Store" or "Foot Locker", if they weren't already spoken for. The words themselves don't have to be unique, they just have to be uniquely used together to market a product. "Application Store" might be a tough sell, but "App Store" sounds completely reasonable.
Can anyone point to someone else marketing "apps" via an "app store" before Apple started doing it? If Apple popularized those terms, that would actually work in their favor.