Microsoft Office and Virtual PC

[Trimix]

Originally posted by cgc
This is a rumors site. Why is the admin editing people's messages? Does the admin know all? Stop editing, we can sort out fact from fiction.

I would strongly agree with cgc - Arn's message was clear, but some people went on the 'mac holocaust m$ bandwaggon' and just went wayyyyy overboard. However it makes for fascinating reading and why not ? Thus cgc is right -

ref the subject we are discussing I like it - more choice, lower prices, what is wrong with that ?

 

[mclosers]

Microsoft Access

When will Office for the Mac mirror office for the PC. This is Especially important for students. I'm a business major and the classes are taught in access and it is very annoying to have to run it in Virtual pc.

What ever happened to Real PC and the faster than a "real" PC thing?

 

[giffut]

Upcoming alternative to VPC

FWB is preparing it´s relaunch of RealPC aka PowerWindows, which should hit the floors in the upcoming weeks/two months. You might remember the struggle they had over copyright of the term "windows" with Microsoft recently whic caused some delay for them.

http://www.fwb.com/html/realpc.html

The new RealPC for OSX is supposed to make direct use of all the hardware of the host, including 3D graphics etc.pp. The direct hardware access, which seroiusly lacks within VPC, should make it a killer app, together with the new G5, if likely they are optimizing it in that way and therefore it´s still on its way.

The PowerPC family (G3/4/5) is very competitive when doing calculation within VPC. That´s one of the reasons that e.g. within Windows XP if you call "sysinfo" in my case (iBook 500), you get sth. like a Pentium 500Mhz equivalent as host processor. The simulation of calculation is not the biggest problem, but the simulation of graphic rendering causes the most speed loss. But due to the design flaws of VPC, graphics are a crawl and eat more than 60& of the resources of the host. If that changes (like e.g. direct access to graphic cards, 3D acceleration etc.), you should have a boost which comes close to getting around 75% to 90% of the simulated system.

G.

 

[pretentious]

VPC & MacBU

Even though it's under the same name Microsoft, MacBU has to OEM each version of Windows, just like when it was sold thru Connectix. So selling VPC in a bundled set allows them to sale this software cheaper than selling in a stand alone set.

This is great news it means that you can get better priceing Mac:Office

 

[kanaka]

Originally posted by FriarTuck

At that price, stuff like Keynote ($99) is pricey by comparison. Appleworks seems a bit expensive at $79 when Office is available for $149.

But $149 is the student price... the student price of Appleworks is $39. Appleworks is in desperate need of some updating, but I still wouldn't use office if MS paid me

 

[solvs]

Originally posted by kanaka
But $149 is the student price... the student price of Appleworks is $39. Appleworks is in desperate need of some updating, but I still wouldn't use office if MS paid me

Only to teachers and college students. He's saying that Office is $149 to grade school kids as well (which I was not aware of). AW is free to e/iMac/Book buyers though.

But yes, AW desperately needs updating. Though, I doubt they will unless they have to.

BTW, RealPC is vaporware at this point. We're still waiting.

 

[MisterMe]

Re: Upcoming alternative to VPC

Originally posted by giffut
FWB is preparing it´s relaunch of RealPC aka PowerWindows, which should hit the floors in the upcoming weeks/two months. You might remember the struggle they had over copyright of the term "windows" with Microsoft recently whic caused some delay for them.

RealPC and PowerWindows are two different products. RealPC is FWB's x86-based computer emulator. It is intended to run any operating system and software for x86-based computers. It is direct competion for Virtual PC. PowerWindows is the new name for SoftWindows, FWB's Windows emulator. My understanding is that it contains the same emulator engine as RPC, but that it optimizes Windows by making mapping Windows system calls into MacOS X system calls.

Originally posted by giffut
The new RealPC for OSX is supposed to make direct use of all the hardware of the host, including 3D graphics etc.pp. The direct hardware access, which seroiusly lacks within VPC, should make it a killer app, together with the new G5, if likely they are optimizing it in that way and therefore it´s still on its way.

Understand this well. MacOS X is a preemptive multitasking multiuser operating system built on the Mach kernel. VirtualPC, PowerWindows, and RealPC are applications. Applications cannot get direct access to the hardware. Claims that an application will gain a performance boost by direct hardware access under MacOS X are bunk.

 

[Lord Bodak]

Originally posted by WM.
*sigh*

The harm is that bundling VPC and Office.X does *not* imply that Microsoft is going to try to "get the users to run Windows Office under VPC" (your words). And all this discussion about it may lead people to think that it does. The only "implication regarding their future development" is that they will continue to develop both applications.

But that's simply untrue. If they didn't want the users to do it, they wouldn't sell it!

You might be absolutely correct. But at the same time, you might be completely wrong. Why is everyone so adamant about ignoring the possible implications?

 

[arn]

Originally posted by cgc
This is a rumors site. Why is the admin editing people's messages? Does the admin know all? Stop editing, we can sort out fact from fiction.

Yes, this is a rumors site... but there is an interest in spreading rumors that are more true than false.

No content was edited. Strong corrections were simply added.

And I don't think (some) people could sort out fact from fiction. There were clearly people who believed that Microsoft was killing Mac Office and simply bundling VPC with Office XP. Which is, of course, wrong.

And I certainly don't want to be responsible for that sort of misinformation.

arn

 

[WM.]

Originally posted by Lord Bodak
But that's simply untrue. If they didn't want the users to do it, they wouldn't sell it!

Sorry to take so long to reply--I had to work all day yesterday.

You use the word "it" twice, and it seems to refer to a different thing each time, and I'm not sure what those two things are. What doesn't Microsoft not want users to do? (OK, double negative, I know.) And what are they selling that indicates that they don't not want users to do that?

TIA
WM

 

[mkaake]

Originally posted by arn
Yes, this is a rumors site... but there is an interest in spreading rumors that are more true than false.

No content was edited. Strong corrections were simply added.

And I don't think (some) people could sort out fact from fiction. There were clearly people who believed that Microsoft was killing Mac Office and simply bundling VPC with Office XP. Which is, of course, wrong.

And I certainly don't want to be responsible for that sort of misinformation.

arn

good call - i mean, there are people who can't even read a joke w/o thinking people are serious, so how much more so when we (read: I) speculate something that wasn't true (and yes, i was one of the first people who misread the post). arn done good by making sure we knew what was actually going on - otherwise i would still be speculating (although i know it would neverhappen) that they were going to dump mac development - and good golly, there are just some people around who have zero common sense... they'd still be talking about it two years from now...

matt

 

[Lord Bodak]

Originally posted by WM.
Sorry to take so long to reply--I had to work all day yesterday.

You use the word "it" twice, and it seems to refer to a different thing each time, and I'm not sure what those two things are. What doesn't Microsoft not want users to do? (OK, double negative, I know.) And what are they selling that indicates that they don't not want users to do that?

If they didn't want users running Office for Windows under Virtual PC, they wouldn't start selling a bundle that included Virtual PC and Office for Windows.

 

[WM.]

*losing patience*

Originally posted by Lord Bodak
If they didn't want users running Office for Windows under Virtual PC, they wouldn't start selling a bundle that included Virtual PC and Office for Windows.

Which is why they're NOT "selling a bundle that includes Virtual PC and Office for Windows."

It's VPC and Office.X, which is Office for Mac OS X.

Dig?

WM

 

[cgc]

Originally posted by arn
Yes, this is a rumors site... but there is an interest in spreading rumors that are more true than false.

No content was edited. Strong corrections were simply added.

And I don't think (some) people could sort out fact from fiction. There were clearly people who believed that Microsoft was killing Mac Office and simply bundling VPC with Office XP. Which is, of course, wrong.

And I certainly don't want to be responsible for that sort of misinformation.

arn

I don't see why anyone could be held responsible for someone's misinterpretation of something. It is the same as gunmakers being responsible for the irresponsible use of guns.

I believe, with your logic, that EVERY rumor must then be closely monitored and explained/corrected because within each thread will be someone who just doesn't get it.

Remember, rumors are just that. They are not to be taken seriously and those who do that are fools.

 

[kenaustus]

There is another benefit

I am a amall, one man company that needs VPC for one proprietary Windows app. I was able to justify switching to a Mac PB last year ONLY because VPC was available. Otherwise I would only be able to drool at the 15" while orering another ThinkPad.

The new package for Office that includes VPC will be very nice for Mac lovers working in somewhat larger companies - they can now argue that their PB (or G5 PM) can handle the Win apps and (by using Safari) can avoid a lot of the problems, such as the virus of the week. While this won't have much of a chance in big companies it is a viable approach in companies where the boss at least knows your face.

The task now is to start preparing youir arguments, including TCO!